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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Narcissists and their rages

308 replies

garlicbaubles · 07/12/2013 16:04

For a number of reasons, I thought it might be a good idea to share our stories. I'll post one after this.

About 1 in 10 people have mental disorders, of a type that renders them incapable of seeing the world as others do. For them, all the world really is a stage: the men, women and children merely props for the drama going on in their heads. They can't see that things go on without their influence, or accept that other human beings feel & think independently. It's like the way young children think - and may well be caused by arrested emotional development.

For them, your every word and deed is scripted, by them. It's impossible to know exactly what your 'script' says. If you know them well, you can make a good guess but they will always surprise you by introducing another plot twist. (And anyway, who wants to live as a figment of somebody else's imagination?) When you step out of your appointed character - by having a thought or feeling of your own, for instance, or not being exactly where they wanted - they get terribly cross. It absolutely shakes their world; it's very distressing for them so they blame you for wrecking the world, like a temperamental director ranting at an opinionated actor.

The rage, the blame, the insults are never about you. Never. If you can manage to listen quietly, what you'll hear is this: "I wrote, cast and directed this scene. You're spoiling it for me!" You will also hear them tell you their insecurities - what they most dislike and fear about themselves, projected as if they were your faults, not theirs.

They usually forget what they said, or that they raged at all.
Please, do, share your stories of 'stepping out of character' and the Narcy rage that followed. You never know how many lightbulbs you might switch on Wink

OP posts:
wonderingagain · 09/12/2013 12:51

OK I've read up about bipolar and narcissism, it seems my friend has both, as a result of (I think) having mental health problems very young. She has developed NPD as a way to deal with the responses to her illness. In those days, MH treatment was fairly dire and the attitude to it was even worse. It is likely that her family and friends rejected her and narcissism is her defence mechanism. The bipolar is ongoing and she is manic most of the time, exacerbated by the NPD.

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/bipolar-you/201310/the-relationship-between-narcissism-and-bipolar-disorder

WynkenBlynkenandNod · 09/12/2013 13:18

My Mum claims my Dad is narcissistic and had a long list of things he is supposed to have done which I think now with the benefit of hindsight is pretty much a load of rubbish. It's only now I've realised that I've told Dad what she said and heard the other side. It's been hard for both of us but we have a much more honest relationship after all these years and cutting out my Mum's influence.

Now she has developed Dementia so a lot of the symptoms she shows are vastly exacerbated by that. My Brother is the Golden Child in his own words. I feel i am the scapegoat. There was a big falling out this summer and we're only just restablishing contact. It seems she has been playing each other off for years but it's taken outsiders to notice.

When it all went wrong this summer Mum thought I was evil, plotting against her and didn't want me involved in her care. My Brothet said he no longer considered me to be his sister, that I only had my Best Interests at heart, was financially motivated, sacked me and said he was cutting DH down to two days a week. I'm delighted to see the back of 2013 shortly and will never put myself back in that position .

garlicbaubles · 09/12/2013 13:45

You found a good article there, wa :) Glad it helped.

Moose, I've stopped raging (except if I need to do it on purpose!) but I used to. It didn't mean my emotional range was abnormally limited, it was a learned response from my background. Having learned maladaptive responses growing up, I naturally gravitated to other maladapted people - so rage was a normal part of my life. It took one week of therapy to lose it for good!

It's clear you're going through an exceptionally stressful time; it's not surprising you feel like exploding. This must be very hurtful to your husband, though. Also - and this is important - rage is a loss of consciousness, in a way. It's a hell of a lot more useful to get properly in touch with your feelings, so you can express them more clearly and work towards solutions instead of causing a stand-off. How would you feel about that?

Wynken, it's horrid when you're forced to recognise the depth of dysfunction in your birth family. Did you get some support on here?

OP posts:
garlicbaubles · 09/12/2013 13:53

sometimes the lack of dysfunction gets lonely. Chaos is all I know. - Hah, MummyBeerest, I really recognise that! I haven't yet fixed my tendency to create chaos, all by myself, in my own life Blush I'm also addicted to East Enders, which was a conscious decision to experience some of the relationships drama in a safe way!!

In phases where I succeed in doing things appropriately, on time, crisis-free ... I absolutely love it. I'm happy. This should serve as a reminder to myself: more of that, please, Me!

OP posts:
hiddenhome · 09/12/2013 16:34

My ex partner is narcissistic.

He went into a meltdown when I told him I hated him and wanted rid. He just couldn't comprehend that I could possibly feel that way about him Shock He turned everything round and blamed me. The more he went on, the more I realised he was actually ranting about his own faults, so I got quite a good insight into the workings of his mind.

He would try to wear me down by ranting and raving for hours on end. Sometimes, he'd wake me up and rant at me. He tried and tried to wear me down, but I had plenty of experience dealing with personality disordered people because my mother is a diagnosed psychopath (very nasty one) and I managed to deal with ex partner pretty effectively really. My mind and ego remained intact - although I was a bit emotionally battered and bruised from it all.

He tried to run rings round me in court over our ds, but I'm cleverer than him and I turned it on its head and he ended up with the worse deal tbh.

AMyrryChristmasToAllMumsnet · 09/12/2013 17:18

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your reports. We understand this thread is a helpful discussion for many people, but we do feel that negatively generalising about people with mental health diagnoses is disablist.

We're happy for people to share their own personal relationships and experiences with people with personality disorders, but we ask that you could steer clear of suggesting that everyone with a certain type of disorder will behave in exactly the same way.

Thanks.

Golddigger · 09/12/2013 17:53

I hope it is ok for me to post on this thread, as I have just mere curiosity?
NotSuchASmugMarriedNow. Do you think that your teenage daughter was born being a narc? And at what age did you suspect that she might be?
Your question about going no contact has been bothering me all day. I dont have the answer. What is her realationship like with you?
Dont answer any of this lot if you dont want to.

garlicbaubles · 09/12/2013 18:01

Thank you for your tactful title edit, MNHQ :)

OP posts:
spanky2 · 09/12/2013 19:28

Mouseymummy your story is very like my mum with ds2. She was openly aggressive to him. We are now nc .

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow · 09/12/2013 21:28

Golddigger. I think I noticed when she was around 4 years of age. But back then, I couldn't have named it. I just put it down to a forceful personality. she is a twin and her twin is totally different so yes, I do think it's genetic, not nurture.

It was only about 2 years ago that I realised what she was and it scares the fucking crap out of me Sad because it's exactly why I divorced her abusive father. My relationship with her is awful, her siblings don't like her much either.

Shes obsessed with me. Well, all my failings anyway, and anything I purchase for myself. Wish she would focus on herself. Always reporting me to the police and social services for the most minor demeanors. Once even totally fabricated a story.

margerybruce · 09/12/2013 21:35

What an odd edit MNHQ

Personality Disorders by their very nature are classified by the BEHAVIOUR of the person who is unfortunate enough to be suffering from one (or more).

The different types of PD are grouped into Clusters dependent on the BEHAVIOUR of the sufferer.

PDed people obviously don't all act in EXACTLY the same way - but their patterns of fixed behaviour are remarkably similar within each disorder - hence how they are diagnosed.

I have extensive personal knowledge of PDed people and I can tell you they all fit into one or more BEHAVIOUR patterns described in the following link -

www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/personality-disorders/types-of-personality-disorder/#.UqYyIcS3Pec

Describing these behaviours is not disablist - it's fact.

In fact it is possible to predict exactly how these people will behave in situations BECAUSE THEY HAVE FIXED PERSONALITIES - which is what a personality disorder is!

It is difficult if not impossible to change these people or treat then - despite what some would have you believe - indeed the current way is to elicit sympathy for the sufferer of the PD - when actually the people needing all the sympathy are the real sufferers - the people who have to deal with the PDed person.

Some of us have been driven to suicidal attempts and had our lives ruined by PDed people - so don't come and tell us we are disablist.

Disclaimer - in no way does the above apply to BPD.

Golddigger · 09/12/2013 21:36

whoa. So sorry. That was even a more difficult answer than I was expecting. I wish I knew the answer.

From your daughter's point of view, it probably doesnt help that she has a twin. If they are anything like my twins, they can be competitive and compare themselves to each other. Still do even though they are old enough to work and live many miles apart from each other.

garlicbaubles · 09/12/2013 21:59

Thanks for that, margery. There was a badly-chosen word in my title, which I assume prompted the report(s). But, yes, the whole point of PDs is that they are limited, predictable patterns of thought, feeling & behaviour. While no two individuals are exactly the same, two sufferers of the same PD display the same abnormalities - that's how the disorders are identified, if they ever go for diagnosis - and they ALL feature emotional dysregulation, with associated rage. Some PDs are more amenable to treatment than others.

I would no more apologise for saying this than for saying all hypothyroid people get tired a lot.

OP posts:
garlicbaubles · 09/12/2013 22:03

NotSuch, how incredibly sad for you. I'm sorry too.

OP posts:
NotSuchASmugMarriedNow · 09/12/2013 22:17

That you garlicbaubles. I have developed a sort of coping strategy whereby I have detached emotionally and try not to spend too many hours with her and it kind of just goes smoothly whilst I do that.

It is sad, yes, but there are limits to what I can do so I need to try to understand the condition which is why I hone in on threads like these.

SimLondon · 09/12/2013 22:32

Wow interesting and at times scary thread. I believe my mother is Narcissistic - but on top of that and not so long ago she was sectioned, not for being narcissistic - but for severe paranoid delusions with anxiety, sectioning really was a last resort. But the narcissism was never really considered during this process so I'm guessing it's not treated as a mental health problem? It's difficult for me to understand.

garlicbaubles · 09/12/2013 23:14

That must have been frightening for all concerned, Sim. Is she always exceptionally paranoid or suspicious, or was this a blip? There is a paranoid personality disorder and, if your mother's long-term behaviours seem to fit that description, it could be worth telling her doctor about it. (If she has it, of course, she'll suspect your motives but there are some treatments that might make her life feel more manageable.)

I don't know what's up with my mother - she seems either narcissistic or histrionic, and she does rage uncontrollably - but we have a better relationship now, following some very tough boundary setting. The hardest part, for me, was letting go of the idea of "my mother" and coming to terms with the woman she is. It's been a weird process.

OP posts:
Unlikelyamazonian · 09/12/2013 23:25

Garlicbaubles dear, how are you?

Cleorapter · 09/12/2013 23:26

One of my mother's best narcissistic rants consisted of telling me about all the bad things 'I had done to her' all lies, but I sat there and listened to her go on I realised everything she was saying was about herself. She was describing her own personality while trying to Assassinate my character. It was quite jaw dropping. Since then I have completely disengaged from everything she says to me. And have the phrase running through my head 'projection is perception!'

I was the scapegoat of the family, massively. And would be bullied by everyone else as they all agreed with what she said (anything to not be the object of her wrath I suppose) I could never have a birthday without her ruining it or not even acknowledging it. Days out I had planned she would cause arguments and make sure I either couldn't go or if I did I would turn up with a puffy face from all the crying. Both of my daughter's births she destroyed by causing arguments and worse.

Narcs are such a delight aren't they?

SimLondon · 09/12/2013 23:37

Thank-you Garlic, in terms of my mothers illness it was the 'delusions' that was the main problem in terms of why she was sectioned but that was after several months of the crisis teams working intensively with her.

Unlikelyamazonian · 09/12/2013 23:53

Garlic is truly amazingly insightful.

She never gets cross or nothing.

Unlikelyamazonian · 10/12/2013 00:01

Garlic, are you ok love?

The Compassion thing ended on a bum note and you flounced.

Sorry to see you still trying to analyse the Narc stuff and hope you can find peace.

MummyBeerestCupOfCheerest · 10/12/2013 00:17

"Projection is perception."

I'd like that embroided on a pillow.

It took me years of therapy and several different counselors to conclude that not everything my mother thought of me was true. Or rather, what she told me she'd thought of me at the time.

I really had a turning point once I had my DD. I didn't want her to feel the way I did as a child. Then I came to realize that in order to save her from it, I had to protect myself too.

We have ver

MummyBeerestCupOfCheerest · 10/12/2013 00:19

Shit, sorry...

We have very little contact now. She knows why, I'm sure. But she pretends not to. All of a sudden she's this loving martyr woman who's being pushed away by her daughter.

wonderingagain · 10/12/2013 00:19

Wynken I am in a similar position to you. Looking back, DM has always set us up against each other. I had been told for years that DB had been given lots of money over the years. Following my father's death we had a talk and it turns out he had been told the same about me. We worked it out to be a few hundred quid - and I had actually given them more money than I had taken! But now the golden boy trap has been set and he is enjoying basking in DM's newfound 'respect' of him (given him access to her bank account, thereby taking on role of DF). He is again quite content to see me as the trouble maker and ensure I am distanced from the family.

It's sad because she is generally a very kind person, sympathetic, wise, understanding of children etc. But she doesn't seem to like the thought that we get along fine without her. It's really as though she doesn't trust me - and only trusts him because she knows he will always agree with her. I've never thought of her as narcissistic because although she looks after herself well, she does not seek adoration or attention. She has just never managed to accept any kind of humility or vulnerability - she has to be on top, in charge and in control.

She had the most traumatic childhood you can imagine so there is reason for her behaviour, but it's extremely hard to find out after so many years that she has almost no understanding of or sympathy towards her own children.