So, what do we think of Melanie Sykes now....

[GemmaTeller]

....she's been arrested for domestic violence on her husband?

Did you read my post? Or were you too busy composing your knee-jerk response?

I can tell you that my diagnosed schizophrenic ex husband does not have an abuser for an ex wife - in my opinion. I am recovering from what I consider to be a highly abusive relationship and one that has left me on my knees. Some people's perception of other people and their behaviour is off kilter. Or do you not accept that? Emotional abuse in particular can be very insidious, and calling someone an abuser is in itself often a form of attack. It is not quite the same as rape, as I'm sure even you will agree.

I'll assume it was more than just a slap in a heated argument if he's reported it.
A bloke who used to be my foreman would often come in work with a black eye or a fat lip. He was 6'2" and about 15 stone. He used to play sunday league football and would say it's stray elbows or a clash of heads and just laugh it off. One day, he came in with a really deep cut across the bridge of his nose and both eyes black. I said I didn't think his injury was caused at football and when nobody else was around, he told me his wife has been attacking him. The injury was caused because he'd taken a cup of tea to bed with him. Because the tea was so hot, he slurped a bit and she violently pushed the cup into his face.
I asked what his response was when she attacks him and he just said he covers his face so nobody knows but sometimes, he doesn't get the chance. I told him to report her to the police but he was afraid he'd be laughed at and would never see his son.

I agree that not all cries of abuse come from a sound place actually.

My ex is still convinced that he was the victim. Even after being charged with criminal damage (because I had no bruises and it was all they could get him for) and given a suspended sentence. The judge knew exactly why he was granting me an occupation order and a non molestation order. But my ex still maintains that he was the victim, I trapped him and controlled him.

He spent our entire relationship stoned and me "controlling" him was actually me not being able to afford to feed his habit. He punched me in the stomach when I was pregnant with our child. He financially, emotionally and physically abused me. But his family still think it was two sided.

As for Melanie Sykes, I have to take it at face value as I don't know the details.

I can't see anyone here having claimed that physical violence is okay.

Nor is discussing M/F, F/M/ F/F, M/M DV derailing the thread. Quite a few posters were discussing why their reactions differed depending on the sex of the victim. That led to a discussion on why this is so.

I have every sympathy for any victim of DV but I refuse to be blinkered by a knee jerk, liberal response of 'it's all wrong and that's all there is to it' There are many different reasons why people suffer from or commit DV and if you don't understand the root of it, then you can't begin to improve the situation.

There's plenty of research that shows that the support needed by male victims is different so my point was simply that it's not enough just to voice sympathy for men and exclaim about the unfairness of how they're treated. There need to be dedicated resources aimed at them but instead most just rant against how women are more favourably treated without considering why that is.

As for existing resources for men in the UK, here you go:-

www.mensadviceline.org.uk
www.mankind.org.uk
www.refuge.org.uk/get-help-now/help-for-men

Blistory

Nor is discussing M/F, F/M/ F/F, M/M DV derailing the thread. Quite a few posters were discussing why their reactions differed depending on the sex of the victim. That led to a discussion on why this is so.

Mmm. Try that on a thread about DV on women and listen for the chorus "What about the menz"

Yep, what about the womenz.

I have every sympathy for any victim of DV but I refuse to be blinkered by a knee jerk, liberal response of 'it's all wrong and that's all there is to it'

Oh, yes. Imagine "Well, she was asking for it, wasn't she..." and try wearing that shoe.

StainlessSteelBegonia

Sorry for saying contention, bad use of words.
in saying The truth is, men are socialised to give voice to their forceful side while women are socialised to give voice to their nurturing side. This is what sexism is - the constant expectation and pressure on men and women to play to their assigned roles. In fact the sexes are far more similar than they are different.

Does that mean that seeing people playing to their assigned role is to be expected due to sexism?

voiceofgodot
Did you read my post?

Yes
Or were you too busy composing your knee-jerk response?
, and no.
There are always exceptions.
If someone says they have suffered DV, they should be believed.

Yes, you have suffered DV; so have I.

DV is always wrong.

The generic exculpation of "Well, it's different, innit..." or "not all cries of abuse come from a sound place" is apologists.

You know; I know it; other readers know it.

I'm glad to say OneMoreChap that I'm very relieved that my exH wasn't believed when he accused me of abuse. Had he been truly believed, I would have been carted to the police station in the middle of the night and spent the night in the cells. There was a possibility that I might have been released on bail, and one of those conditions might have been that I was not to come back to the house. ExH could then have applied for an emergency occupation order to make me homeless giving him residency of the children (despite my being a SAHM). I was advised by a lawyer at the time that it was highly likely that this was his intention.

What an abusive person can do to twist laws that have been put in place to protect those in genuine need is quite alarming. I hadn't done a THING wrong, and yet had he got his way that night, my life could have been in absolute ruin. The first time he contacted the police, he trudged to the station through the snow in the middle of January, to report an argument that had happened hours earlier. He phoned me on the way and told me that if I told him there was a chance of reconciliation, he wouldn't go and report me. So no, I don't think that all reports of DV should be believed. He was and is manipulative and vindictive in the extreme, and I hate him for the fact that when a policeman knocked on our door a few weeks ago asking around to see if anyone had seen anything regarding a car that had been broken into, my first response was to burst into tears thinking that somehow I'd done something without knowing about it. :(

OneMoreChap

Please don't pull that bullshit on me. Physical DV against women frequently ends in their death. It's entirely valid, for that one startling reason alone, to consider that women are worse off when they are the victims of DV. The risks to them are higher so why wouldn't we, as a society, prioritise that ? Why wouldn't we recognise that women are more vulnerable in general ?

It is also entirely valid to recognise that in some instances, both parties are abusers. Both are equally wrong.

As for 'she was asking for it' - you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to co-opt a rape myth to support your point.

Please don't use responses that you've appropriated from feminists against me as they don't work in reverse or out of context. You're assuming an equal playing field despite being well aware that we're far from that.

And just to be pedantic, there is a world of difference between posters on FWR debating an issue from a woman's viewpoint and having an MRA derail it and posters on Relationships debating how they view a woman accused of DV and why their instinctive reaction is to wonder what pushed her to it. An exploration of why they feel that way is natural and is about them questioning their own views and challenging them.

Everyone is going to see this thread through the lens of their own experience. All those experiences are useful and society has to accommodate all of them.

Since dv is not a crime in itself I think we can afford to presume claims of abuse are untrue unless there is a reason not to. Criminal behaviour, or accusations of it, needs to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt and therefore (pressure to accept a caution aside) no-one should be convicted of an assault they didn't do.

I don't think that is really the aim of abusers using the authorities, it is often just an attempt to re-exert control and to bully and frighten and yes it is common whether the abuser is male or female. Often difficult to disentangle for the authorities because the whole relationship has become toxic like how proudestdad described in his script and they don't have access to the history of abuse to be able to understand the current situation. It takes time and observation to unravel.

Beliefs are not fixed are they? The damage done by not believing a victim is greater than that done by initially being taken in by a liar I think so I would always take accusations of abuse seriously.

Usually I think a liar, even a skilled one, will expose themselves. I remember being frightened that the authorities would believe my abuser's lies too but also shocked at my women's aid worker's ability to predict everything that he would do and the magistrate's ability to see through him. Workers who are experienced in dealing with abuse are good at spotting this I think.

I think the whole thread is a shame tbh. It was started in a provocative way which was never going to end well. The answers to it are particularly adversarial and seem to be encouraging posters to post more and more personal experiences, which I'm sure are upsetting, which are then torn to shreds.

There is no need for such conflict and animosity. It is not a competition for worst done by. More women are abused but abuse of men by women is less understood, both sets of victims are under-supported. They have different sets of needs.

My initial thought was to feel miffed that I might be accused of liking or supporting Melanie Sykes before this news when I've had concerns about her for ages (she dated one of xh's mates, also much younger). As far as I'm aware MN is not a vocal supporter of MS but the title will obviously encourage a defensive reaction... That's why there have been numerous defensive reactions.

Claims of abuse aren't untrue I mean!

"I think the whole thread is a shame tbh. It was started in a provocative way which was never going to end well." - how was it started? It was somebody asking what we thought of Melanie Sykes after she attacked her husband. How is that provocative? It's only provocative if you think female on male domestic violence shouldn't be talked about.

There has been victim blaming on here and some "what about the womenz". Stick to the topic and don't derail. There are plenty of threads about male on female DV.

Amberleaf wins the Richard Littlejohn Award for passive aggression with her post "Only on Mumsnet", thereby attempting to belittle anybody who so much as tries to talk about the subject.

That wasn't my point.

My point was "so what do we think of Melanie Sykes now?" Is provocative because it implied, to me, that mumsnet defends women perpetrators of dv.

Ah!

Um...not sure why it should. Seems quite a neutral thing to say. Unless the OP has been going on and on about MS for ages.

There's no excuse for violence no matter who is doing it. We never know the full story so it's hard to judge but if she had an issue she should have found another way to deal with it rather than using violence.

Celebrities seem to think it's OK to live by separate rules to the rest of the world. It often seems they live in drug-fuelled guilded cages surrounded by people saying 'yes' and have no concept of reality. I've come across a few like this through my work (not all some are lovely!) and I wonder if she is another one.

No idea what her husband is like but it must have taken courage to call the police. I hope they both get the help they need.

Just because, like I say, my immediate thought was "I've been concerned about her behaviour and attitude for ages why are you assuming we like her and need to be dissuaded from liking her"

Probably wasn't intention on the part of the op but I think the fact it has descended into this argument is indicative that it had a provocative effect.

It's all very well saying the male victims should be believed and sympathised with.

But that doesn't address the reality that men don't feel that there is any degree of support for them when they are victims. There seems to be a belief that abuse/violence doesn't happen to 'real men' and that one of the biggest barriers to men accessing help and support is that they feel ashamed, that they'll be laughed at and largely, by other men.

Men are conditioned from a very young age into believing they need to be the protector, they need to be physically strong, that they are the head of the household. That they don't cry or feel emotion and that it's wrong to seek help.

If men can't/don't/won't talk to their friends and family then there is a more fundamental problem that needs addressed than the abuse itself.

So why aren't more men doing something about this ? Why aren't there campaigns for the support and guidance that men need ?

I suspect that the problem is that instead of recognising that men have a different set of problems and require a different set of solutions, the focus is mainly on demanding equality with women in terms of access to support and shelters. There is an awful lot of noise about women having support and the unfairness of it all instead of recognition that it's a different issue but an equally valid one.

And it's okay for people to commit their resources to whatever charity they want. The fact that I support Women's Aid doesn't mean I have no sympathy for male victims, it's just that I choose a hierarchy of charities that I support and the ones that I feel have greater need or meaning to me, are the ones I focus on.

TiggyD Maybe you should have a read of my other posts on this thread.

Hmmm. Amberleaf, it seems that what I said and what I feel at this time that I should have said, are not 100% alike. That is a situation that is regrettable.

That's a really crap way of apologising for getting it totally wrong.

Forgot to put a at the end.

Sorry. I worked up into a right mood and didn't check twice before posting.