Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

So, what do we think of Melanie Sykes now....

96 replies

GemmaTeller · 27/11/2013 22:37

....she's been arrested for domestic violence on her husband?

OP posts:
likelytoasksillyquestions · 28/11/2013 20:22

See, wannabe, for me mocking would cross a line - clearly it's okay for you and your DP. I'm absolutely agreed on the name-calling and of course the hitting being well beyond anyone's line, I don't mean to mire us in endless relativism, but I do want to demonstrate that there's a degree of personal taste in what constitutes crossing a line.

I would find it hard to cope with my partner being so amused by my being upset or angry. I certainly wouldn't hit them for it, and I don't think that behaviour merits being hit (none does), but I agree that it's a story that doesn't portray either party in the best of lights.

But then, that's half the trick of normal DV - people are human, and nobody ever comes out looking perfect. I don't want to buy in to the myth that anyone deviating from the meek and subservient wife behaviour has somehow brought it on themself.

jonicomelately · 28/11/2013 20:28

The Coronation Street storyline portraying Tyrone's abuse was heartbreaking.
I hope that Melanie Sykes and her husband are able to sort out their problems.

Blistory · 28/11/2013 20:36

If I had a partner who had so little respect for me that he felt it appropriate to dictate joint decisions, to refuse to engage, to mock me, to deny previous intentions, to question my recollection, to laugh at me, to patronise me, then no, I wouldn't hit him but I wouldn't see him as a victim and I wouldn't be with him.

Losing control and hitting someone is wrong, I don't know how many times I have to say that but there remains a significant difference in how, why and when and outcome between the sexes. And it is women who tend to come off worse in the majority of cases.

A woman cannot defend herself against a stronger person without specialist training and skills. A man generally can. That doesn't excuse violence, it simply adds an extra dimension to what happens when a woman is the victim.

And if men want support they need to do something about it - women campaigned for years for shelters and recognition. The needs of male victims of DV are entirely different from those of female ones so they need to campaign for those needs to be met. It is not appropriate to hijack women's campaigns given the difference causes, outcomes and needs. It is failing to recognise those differences that does men an injustice and stops them from accessing help.

PaulMcGannsMistress · 28/11/2013 20:40

This isn';t though, hijacking women's causes - the thread is about women being violent to men. I'm always happy to take a man to task who tries to hijack a DV thread to talk about Female to male DV, but that's not what's happened here.

Blistory · 28/11/2013 21:02

I was talking about the reference to the lack of support for male victims. There was mention that most books seemed to assume the female as the victim and that men were therefore unsupported as victims. There was also talk about men not being taken seriously which is another issue that needs to be addressed but in a way appropriate for men and not by attacking the support that is there for women. It's there for women because the majority of women are the victims and because women have campaigned long and hard for appropriate resources for their needs.

Wasn't suggesting that the thread was hijacked.

AmberLeaf · 28/11/2013 21:45

Only on Mumsnet.

threestepsforward · 28/11/2013 22:06

Out of interest, does anyone know of any sites / agencies / whatever that will give practical support to men in situations of abuse?
I know there's a group for physical abuse, but is there such a resource for emotional or mental abuse and bullying?

I've found some sites for dad to look at, but there were US based so not much practical help for over here.

He's off to see his long-term best friend next week and says he's going to spill the beans in full and get some advice and support, which is such good news. It's so hard to see the genuinely most gentle man you've met suffering in this way. He's openly told me he feels humiliated and belittled, spent and of course desperately unhappy :(

Off to bed now so will check back tomorrow. Would really appreciate any advice - any starting point for him. (I've already suggested he get the free 1/2 hour appointment with a lawyer to see how the lay of the land looks legally...)

Thanks so much :)

OberonTheHopeful · 28/11/2013 22:11

threestepsforward Try the Mankind Initiative. I have found them to be very helpful in the past. I do hope your dad is OK :)

wannabedomesticgoddess · 28/11/2013 22:38

So if the male lashed out at the female because she said, within earshot of their kids, that she regretted meeting him and having their children, is it acceptable? Is she a victim?

The answer is its not acceptable and yes she is a victim, however much of a bitch she has just been.

Mocking is the same. If a man hits a woman because she laughed at him or mocked him, or told him they were not getting a dog, is that ok? No it fucking isn't. So why on earth is it seemed more ok when the agressor is female?

I refuse to let our dog sleep in our house. Should DP hit me? I also put the xmas tree up today even though DP said he would rather wait until the 1st Dec? Am I a controlling abuser?

If I said that DP won't let us have another baby, is he controlling me?

She hit him because he said no to getting a dog, and then he laughed at her as she called him names and said horrible things about their lives and children. But it paints him in a bad light?

Them bad menz.

ProudestDad · 28/11/2013 22:41

You are right Blistory, I should not have laughed, I should not have even continued to engage with her as she said the things she said. I should have walked away and turned my back on her and her extreme reaction to my resistance to bringing an extra responsibility in the form of a dog into our family. I take full responsibility for everything I did and said in all of our discussions and arguments, but I did not call her names, I did not judge her, I did not tell her what she was thinking, or react to what I thought she was thinking, and inflicting violence on her never entered my head.

Just before that argument and assault I made a choice to do anything I could to not despair. Right or wrong, laughing was the best I could do, but inside I was crushed and desperate for a way to show her how crushed and hurt I had been feeling all through the years. Through the years I would despair, despair that the woman I believed to be rational and understanding could be saying the things she would say. Telling me that she hated our street, referring to the people of the area as "scroats", saying to me that it was not fair that "everyone else" was leaving their young children with their parents and taking holidays abroad and that she couldn't because I would not leave our DD and go away for probably the only holiday we could only afford if we put it on a credit card. She used to complain at me that we didn’t go out enough and that we didn’t have many friends and that I should be cooking her romantic meals and renting a film because that was what “normal people did for their wives”.

I believed anything was possible with communication. All I wanted to do was talk and plan. She seemed to want things immediately, and my need to plan was because I had OCD in her opinion. When I used to tell her my thoughts about our responsibility to save for the children’s education she told me that I worried too much and that they could get student loans, that I was an automaton, where as she was a human being. That I was controlling, and that “everyone else at work was talking about their holidays” and she told me that “every one else was happy to pay for their holiday on a credit card” telling me that she knew the debt situation of “everyone else” who she worked with and who had been abroad.

The worst thing Blistory was being told what I thought and what I wanted, as though she had a window on my mind. She would tell me what I ws thinking and then I would find myself explaining that I didn’t think those things. What she thought I was thinking would get her so angry and take th discussion off in a direction that was far from the issue that I had raised in the first place, which would lead to shouts, her calling me names, throwing things at me, then days of silence. After the silence she would be all loving again as though nothing had happened, but the unfairness of it all weighed on my mind so that over time I became quiet, withdrawn and sad. I spent years trying to convince her that I wasn't thinking what she said I was thinking

If I were to want to discuss anything it was never the right time and I should have known that it was the wrong time to bring up things. Things as trivial as taking down a tree in the garden, whether we can really afford the cost of drama classes for two of the DC, never mind two hour round trip on a Monday night to take them, or how much we might afford to spend at Christmas, whether we could make a shopping list together so that I was not having to drive the mile up to the shop at times when I had the kids to bathe, to play games with, to read to.

Her anger quickly flared up when I suggested that maybe the open plan room we had could be partitioned. My reason was because there were 3 growing children and 2 adults sharing one space that we were likely to clash in the future, plus I wanted some privacy to be able to discuss grown up stuff, without the kids earwigging from the other end of the room. She got angry with me and criticised me for changing my mind about the room in the years since we bought the place. A small thing, but we could not discuss it because anger got in the way.

Her explanation for getting angry was - because I had brought up a subject at the wrong time, that she was tired as she worked three nights a week on shifts with a sporadic pattern, that I had the wrong look on my face, that the tone of my voice was wrong, and that I should have known that the subject would be emotive, and that I should not bring up potentially emotive subjects until at least two clear days from her last night shift. When I told her that many of her reactions were disproportionate and unfair, and when I referred to the last time she had reacted that way she would accuse me of living in the past and tell me that I was not normal, that she didn't live in the past at all and could put things behind her because she was laid back and easy going and that I was a stressed, uptight, miserable person. She once ran around the kitchen area waving her arms in the air like a crazed baboon and said that that was how she saw me to be. Sometime after that incident, when I told her I was leaving and reminded her of that insulting impersonation she did of how she perceived me to be and she said "I am sorry I did that, but that is what you are like".

I was not like that, I was just an ordinary person dealing with the challenges of children, life and business. I would never speak to anyone in the way that she would thoughtlessly speak to me. And not only to me, she once told our youngest DS when he was four to “get out of my face” when he was wanting to get close to her at the dinner table. She shouted at all three of our DCs that “everyone was treating her like shit” when I happily let them put fluffy tinsel on what she referred to as HER real Christmas Tree! She later text me from work to tell me that she thought that everyone was laughing at her. By everyone she meant me and the three children, who I saw to be happily decorating our tree.

When she was off nights at the weekends and sleeping I would sort the kids, entertain the kids, keep them quiet, clean, do washing, shop (with the three kids), cook AND attend to the business stuff that as a director of a business that was contributing to the household was my responsibility alone. I did all of that without complaint, and yet on a couple of occasions, when I was home in the week and she was going to the shop she wanted to leave our youngest with me because he “did her head in at the shops”, never mind that I was working, and that I never objected to taking him or any of the DCs to the shop when she was sleeping off nights. But then she would point out that I was “Mr perfect”. When I pointed out how leaving our 4 year old with me was distracting she became angry and an argument ensued.

I didn’t mind night shifts, they were necessary and I was grateful to her for what she did, but she often remarked that she was tired and that it made her grumpy, and that she didn’t like that it meant that she missed out on evenings with the children and social events. When I suggested that she might be able to find a day job in the local area her response was “how dare you tell me what to do. I love working nights and I would work nights for the rest of my life if I could” And this is a woman who wanted us to have a dog. The practicalities would have been too much for me, never mind the fact that I am allergic to them. This was not a problem before we had children and when our DC(1) was only a toddler, but 14 years later, as a person who runs a business on my own working with people who are highly vulnerable to infection, I couldn’t risk bringing a dog into our open plan room and trust that I would not have to live with the symptoms of mild asthma, which to any casual observer might appear that I have a cold. I argued that if a person visiting my very disabled and ill child was showing up sneezing and coughing every visit, I would politely ask him to cease coming. Her answer was that I could take antihistamine every day and that it was not fair that she could not have a dog and that she didn’t think that she could cope with not having a dog, and that she had no hope, nothing. And when I told her that she had me and the children but it seemed that we were not enough she responded “you’re not enough”.

I had a choice in my reaction to her that night and I chose to laugh at her statements and to stand up for my beliefs. My DW had a choice and she chose to come across the room and hit me. I am so glad that by the time she resorted to hitting me, that I was past my despair, long past the time when I would find myself unable to get out of my seat because my arms and legs felt as though they were filled with lead, long past the time when I would consider whether the world would be better off without me, long after the time when I would find myself standing by the local canal lock on a winters morning, staring into the hole in the ice, considering how long it might take for it all to be over if I were just to tumble in head first. It was MY reaction to my DWs choices of words that put me in a dark place where men and women exist today and it was my choice to leave her.

ProudestDad · 28/11/2013 23:23

By the way, i post my thoughts and experiences to this thread because even though I am happy with my situation I still harbour thoughts that maybe I did contribute to making her angry over the years. Therapy cost £40 a session and an hour is not long enough. I can sit and take my time as I write my own posts anonymously and I can read your responses and in every one, whatever your opinion of my posts, I value hearing what everyone has to say because the communications are rational, measured and respectful to one another. After living in a situation where I could not be confident that responses would be that way I find it to be a breath of fresh air and better than therapy.

ProudestDad · 29/11/2013 06:58

If I were reading my posts I would be thinking that councilling might have been useful at some point in my marriage. I recall that I would talk to my close friend about my DW's attitude to life, family, holidays and pets. He would tell me that things didn't sound right to him.

Our marriage was not happy for me and as the children grew I was conscious of what they were experiencing and I remember very early on telling my DW that my friend shared my opinion on my attitude to holidays and pets. Her response was that I should not discuss our marriage with my friend and that she didn't talk to anyone else about her private life. When she maintained how unfair life was for her that she needed a holiday abroad and said hurtful crap like that my Daughter will hate me if I don't give her a dog, I suggested to her, (pleaded with her on my knees sometimes) to go to councilling, a suggestion that my friend and my therapist had made. My DW's response was, "no! I am a private person and you are weird to want to talk to people. Councilling is rubbish. I did psychology at university and it's all rubbish." She even told me once that if we did go, that she would know what the therapist would say before he or she said it! And on the subject of university, there were a couple of occasions where she pointed out that my not having gone to university might be the reason for my narrow view of life.

Since she hit me the second time I have questioned her as to why she did it and she has told me that in her opinion it is normal, that everyone she has spoken to about it believes it to be normal, with one person saying that she throws plates at her DH, and that one once bounced off the wall and cut his head, another apparently said that she has thrown him down the stairs, and another apparently told my DW her opinion that I should think myself lucky that I she has only hit me twice!

There was a time when I wanted to stand by my DW and get to the bottom of what was driving her to say and do the things she did, but as I realised that nothing I said or did was the right thing I stopped pleading, I stopped caring. I should have left her years before. In 2006 I was so close to doing so. This was when DS(3) was not yet a year old, I looked for a house to rent and told DW I was leaving. She pleaded with me not to go. She accepted responsibilities, told me she would get help in controlling her anger and not responding to what she thought I was thinking but what I was actually saying. She told me she would change and I gave in and chose to stay because I loved her and wanted us to work out. She did not change, she became worse and she became violent.

saintmerryweather · 29/11/2013 07:35

the double standards on mn make me sick they really do. women on the relationships board are constantly assured that DV can be sexual, financial, emotional or physical and yet when its a man being abused, the apologists and minimisers come out with the 'IF it gets physical its not as bad because a woman isnt as strong'. what if she finds a weapon? what if she throws things? then when a man posts about his experience hes told its his fault that she hit him because he laughed at her, but women are routinely told that they havent earnt the abuse they got.

if this was a thread about M on F DV and people came on saying 'yeah but you deserved it because you wouldnt let him get a dog' those posters would get ripped to shreds. these attitudes are why men dont report DV because theyre ashamed

OneMoreChap · 29/11/2013 09:07

I am a bit amused, rather disappointed, but very unsurprised that even on a thread about F to M DV there are apologists saying, "Well, it's different, innit..."

No, DV is wrong; it is always to be condemned.
And there is, never, ever an excuse.

Whichever one is commiting the violence.

Offred · 29/11/2013 09:08

Melanie Sykes I feel is thoroughly objectionable. I have felt that way for a long while, highly strung and clearly damaged. I always have concerns about relationships between significantly older and wealthier celebrities and young unknown people. I do think it can be indicative of an abusive dynamic so I am not surprised to hear of this. Good on the guy for pursuing her legally.

I think it is important to believe and support people who claim to be victims of dv male or female because people (men and women) are unlikely to claim abuse when there has been none but I also think abusive relationships often lead to the victim mimicking their abuser's behaviour. It is true that victims, both male and female are often dismissed.

However, we shouldn't pretend that domestic violence isn't a gendered issue. Women have not achieved equality in any sense and there is much more concern directed at controlling women's sexuality than men's. You cannot ignored that deeply ingrained sexism directed towards women is the cause of the higher level of abuse directed towards women by men.

The existence of male victims doesn't negate this point and the fact that most domestic violence is committed by men against women shouldn't negate male experiences of abuse by women either. However capitalism has a place here in that because there are fewer male victims resources are not allocated to support them. There are inadequate resources to deal with the objectively bigger societal issue of male abuse of women too. This is not the fault of the many more women who are being abused than men and I do think they are separate issues. The question for both sexes is why is domestic violence being largely ignored.

Offred · 29/11/2013 09:19

Should also clarify that I don't believe that the gender difference in levels of abuse is a result of men being inherently abusive. I think it is a direct result of gender inequality. If women were more powerful than men in society then I think we would see the same situation in reverse.

ExcuseTypos · 29/11/2013 09:28

ProudestDad I hope you are in a happier place now.

I too think its disgraceful that ProudestDads posts are being dissected and decided it wasn't all his Ws fault. Absolutely disgusting.

DV is wrong, whoever is doing it.

I have experience of a close female relative being extremely violent towards her H. This included hitting, verbal abuse, and pulling a knife on him several times. On one occasion her 8 year old dd phoned the police. They took both the adults to police station, as they didn't believe a woman would do that. She completely got away with it for years. She was a nasty, abusive cow who ruined her H and DCs lives.

SkullyAndBones · 29/11/2013 09:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StainlessSteelBegonia · 29/11/2013 09:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

threestepsforward · 29/11/2013 10:03

Oberon thanks so much,
I will direct him to the link as it does look very helpful...
thanks again :)

OneMoreChap · 29/11/2013 11:22

StainlessSteelBegonia

The truth is, men are socialised to give voice to their forceful side while women are socialised to give voice to their nurturing side. This is what sexism is - the constant expectation and pressure on men and women to play to their assigned roles. In fact the sexes are far more similar than they are different.

Interesting.
Is your contention then that playing to their assigned role is to be expected due to sexism?

Would it then follow that woman being DV is playing against expected role and it's somehow worse?

I suspect that analysis in all its forms.
Easy is DV is wrong, full stop.
No excuses, no mitigation of any sort.

Gender determinism/gendered issue fine. Outright condemnation all round please.

This post and some of the reactions to it make me wonder about
"What about the womenz..."

BlueSkySunnyDay · 29/11/2013 12:08

I think much as society expects women to behave in a certain way it also does the same to men. I live with H and the boys who are all on the sensitive side of masculinity, on occasions where the boys have been struggling at school and I have spoken to teachers the suggestion is always "oh why dont they join the football team?" they hate football/being rough and competitive - they dont fit into the box you put boys into which is why they are not already one of the gang I love them all the way they are but life is definately harder for a man who doesnt fit the mould of how men are supposed to be

Its easier for people to believe and be sympathetic to a woman in a DV situation because we are perceived as weaker Hmm but whilst on the whole we are physically weaker I do know women who are downright nasty and scary.

For a man who is being abused he firstly has to get over blaming himself and feeling weak and then he has to be believed if he reports it. I think a woman reporting abuse is more likely to be believed and less likely to be judged

voiceofgodot · 29/11/2013 12:14

I think it's all very complex. One thing that is known is that many male abusers shout 'abuse' at their victims. It's certainly what happened to me. I don't think people are ignoring domestic abuse, I just think so much of it is subjective. My exH accused me of abuse, and finally of actual assault. What he called assault was me touching him on the arm in a public place. Twelve hours later, in the middle of the night, the police knocked on my door having been told I had assaulted him. Thankfully the police saw the situation for what it was but had they not acted outside of DV regulations, I would have spent the night in police cells and been urged to accept a caution. Several weeks later he dropped the accusation. My exH is not only mentally unstable, but also highly manipulative and emotionally/financially controlling. He used the police to target me as he felt his control over me diminish during separation, and would routinely call them if I so much as raised my voice at him during an argument.

The issue of 'what is abuse?' is very nuanced I think. As I extricate myself from this sorry mess of a relationship, I know I have to look at inwards as well as outwards as I try to take stock of what happened. All I do know is that the person who kept calling the police and considers himself a DV victim is the one who has slapped me across the face in front of the children, the one who punches holes in walls, who called me a stupid cunt over and over again, and who has thrown more objects at me over the years than I care to remember.

In this instance, I just think - Melanie Sykes. Probably not a very nice person. But frankly even though she accepted a caution (I was told by the police that I may have been encouraged to do the same had it got that far) we just do not know the facts of the situation. Of course all domestic abuse is unacceptable. But not all cries of abuse come from a sound place.

BlueSkySunnyDay · 29/11/2013 12:23

I dont know that much about her but I can remember thinking in the past she seemed like a troubled person

OneMoreChap · 29/11/2013 13:07

voiceofgodot

But not all cries of abuse come from a sound place.

Good god...
are you a rape apologist, too?

Swipe left for the next trending thread