How can I get him to say sorry?

[birdsnotbees]

My DH never says sorry. Whenever we have a row or I pull him up on something, he immediately launches into a list of my "crimes", the upshot of which means I'm not allowed to criticise him. So this morning for example, he unfairly shouted at me as he was running late & stressed. I told him he was being unfair. He told me he I was grumpy in the morning so should "get over myself".

It happens over and over. I will happily confess to not being perfect. I don't actually nag him. And when I am wrong I say sorry & try and change my behaviour as a result. But he never does. He won't take responsibility for his own behaviour and just deflects all the time by trotting out a long long list of all the things I've ever done wrong.

I have tried tackling him when we're not arguing but he does the same. He can't see it. And it doesn't help that I've got to the point now that I quickly lose my temper when he does it- which he then twists into me being hysterical. I'm not but I am so fed up. It's getting to the point where I'm starting to question our relationship - over something that should be so small. I feel so bloody lonely.

If you've read this far, do you have any advice?

Diagonally - you rock!

Eirikur

That's really interesting. I think you are right

Don't let his horrible past and family dynamic become a licence to recreate it with you.

I can only say, don't bother arguing the point you started arguing about when he starts indulging in these behaviours. Just hold him to account as firmly as you can manage for nastiness, grudge-holding and sulks. Whatever the dispute, some kinds of behaviour are not acceptable.

Sulking only works if you are there to see him do it, so absent yourself and the children from him until he is either ready to get off his high horse or you can have a private conversation about it.

the most effective way to deal with the silent treatment is to ignore it. It's pretty boring sulking when absolutely nobody is interested. Just go on with your evening in exactly the same way as you always would do

It will take the wind out of his sails if he really is a sulky, moany bully nad if he's just stubborn, intransigent & unwilling to admit his faults (like mine) he will just be relieved.

There is the concept of 'hierarchical self-esteem'. In other words, someone with low self-esteem who can only feel better about themselves if they are making someone else feel bad.

Otherwise I would repeat the advice to not back down to keep the peace. 'LTB' can be avoided but only if you don't engage in pointless arguments and firmly stand your ground when this behaviour happens.

Your kids are being taught some very damaging lessons here

Men are always right and women always back down.

He's running late, and shouts at you and you say he's being unfair and then it's all your fault?

What did he shout at you, as a matter of interest?

I don't think my kids are learning a bad lesson - not from me. Because I do stand up to him. And I do apologise when I'm wrong. And make a point if saying to my kids "you know what, I got this wrong and now I'm doing x and y to sort it out". But I think me giving him the silent treatment is precisely the wrong message to give my kids because I don't want them thinking it's ok when it's just petty game playing. So I give in to my DH because I don't want to be like him.

Oh I'm so bloody confused. I know I'm not perfect and am happy (ish) to admit it. I might give a good argument but I will go away and think about things and admit I'm wrong. DH says I never apologise either and I find that so hurtful because its just not true- but he can be so adamant that I haven't said sorry, that I haven't tried to put things right, that I begin to question not my sanity but his.

It's like he lives in a parallel universe, and the woman he lives with is not me.

Does that make any kind of sense??

He just shouted at me to hurry up, that I'd left it all to him, that he was late because I hadn't got the kids ready. We were all ready to go... Hence me giving him what for. At which point he told me I had no right to be indignant as he had to put up with me being grumpy most mornings. Not just him but the kids too. He's right, I am grumpy in the morning, but have out steps in place not to be (by getting up earlier). So is that ok then? Do I have no right to be pissed off at being shouted at? He made me cry.

I think your kids seeing you give in to your husband every time is not something they should be witnessing. Mostly though they should not be watching him Lord it over you and making you cry.

You can try and dress it up any way you like, but that is what is happening.

No-one is perfect but your DHs own childhood was abusive and he is just carrying on what he learnt from his parents. Do not let yourself and by turn your children be further affected by this need of his to want absolute power and control over you. Stuff like this can and does filter down the generations.

What do you get out of this relationship with DH now?. What needs of yours are being met here by him?.

What do you want to teach them about relationships here, both of you in your own ways are teaching them damaging lessons on relationships.

Your husband is utilising a form of emotional abuse. Look gaslighting

Quietly, I appreciate your message but I don't have a horrible, terrible relationship, as you put it. That's slightly over the top, no? My kids are happy and well adjusted. They rarely see us argue as a) it's not actually very often and b) it's mostly when they are asleep. All parents argue. It doesn't mean all kids are damaged for life. My DH may be a twat but he is kind and patient with our kids - any sniff if him being otherwise and you would have to physically restrain me. So I think you are projecting somewhat, although you mean it kindly.

There does seem to be a tendency to demonise my DH or "men". He is far from perfect but likewise he is far from being an abusive bully.

Sadly, life isn't that black and white. It'd be much easier if it was.

I'd have told him to fuck off personally and to get his shit together before whining at me again. Then i'd have driven off and left him. But that's just me.

Another whose ex never said sorry. In fact he once said to me that his mother had told him that in nearly 60 years of marriage, his father had never said sorry to her. But he didn't seem to think this was a problem, so 'like father like son'.

Mine also refused to take any responsibility for his actions and blamed me for everything. It just made me weary and ground me down.

that he was late because I hadn't got the kids ready

Are these his kids too? In which case why the hell isn't he helping to get them ready rather than leaving it all to you? It sounds to me like you are a handy scapegoat, which is what I was too. You can't get him to say sorry. All you can do is say that you will not tolerate this and if it means the marriage ends then so be it. A shock like that might force him to reconsider his behaviour.

He really is not far from an abusive bully.

If he was far from being one, then you wouldn't be able to describe so much bullying and abusive behaviour from him.

It is also clear from reading what you write how badly affected you are by his abusive attacks on you and his gaslighting.

But sure, tell yourself it's because we all hate men

Because ALL men are abusive bullies who gaslight their wives.

The fact that you think it's OK that he is kind to them while he treats you like an emotional punchbag if you ever cross him says a lot about what life must be like in your home.

Birdsnotbees you are not powerless in this situation

I wouldn't ignore it but I'd start the conversation a different way, he sounds like he is repeating a pattern.

He's insular and depressed and won't talk so he lacks the emotional toolkit for life and is resorting to known tactics everything is a battle because he's still stuck in victim mode it's a very comfy place to be, however if he never takes responsibility for anything A he'll never grow up B he'll be setting a bad example for your children and C you'll end up soulless in a miserable marriage

So I'd put it to him in terms of a partnership explain that you'll never move forward together enjoy yourselves if everything is always about blame the world happens life happens its not personal but instead of facing things together he's turning on you thereby hurting you and destroying your relationship.

Explain that he should trust your love for him and that you don't need to be manipulated or emotionally blackmailed into being his wife you are here because you want to be however if he continues down this negative road it will become a self fulfilling prophecy and he will lose everything.

I'd also ask him how he's feel if one of the children did this to him ?

On a lighter note the next time he reels off your list of crimes against humanity I'd ask him who made him the centre of the universe judge and jury over all ?

Sound travels, they likely hear all the arguments when they've gone to bed even if they cannot hear all the words clearly. They perhaps even blame themselves for their dad's war against their mum and wonder why the two of you are shouting at each other again. They hear him have a go at you during the day as well.

He acts like this also because he can (you're still there and thus put up with him) and this was learnt by him a long time ago.

Attila, my DS slept through me giving birth in the room next door, I very much doubt either of them hear a thing!

Besides, we don't argue every night or even every fortnight. It's just that when we do I get this defensive behaviour and after so many years it grates.

There's a whole lot of projection going on here, and tbh it's not that helpful.

Bumbumsmummy, thank you, some good advice there

Well known abuse fact: babies hear and sense abuse in the womb

Your kids are aware of tension even subconsciously.

Don't kid yourselves that out of sight is out of mind.

Any child in a home where there is DV is considered by SS to be being a direct victim of DV, regardless of anything.

The situation you describe at home may not be up and down battery, but it's not happy, it's not healthy and it's not a thriving environment.

You have to sort this out for you, and for them.

I've every faith in the fact that you can.

I also thought about gaslighting, because of the confusion you are feeling, and expressing here:

"Oh I'm so bloody confused. I know I'm not perfect and am happy (ish) to admit it. I might give a good argument but I will go away and think about things and admit I'm wrong. DH says I never apologise either and I find that so hurtful because its just not true- but he can be so adamant that I haven't said sorry, that I haven't tried to put things right, that I begin to question not my sanity but his.

It's like he lives in a parallel universe, and the woman he lives with is not me.

Does that make any kind of sense??"

All people in dysfunctional relationships minimise how much it is affecting their children. It is par for the course. Until they get that lightbulb moment, of course. I suspect OP is quite a way off that yet.