Want to finally leave partner - can any of you MN'er's help me with what to actually SAY?

[wanttofinallyleave]

A bit of the backstory to this -

We have been together for 9 years, but not the past 6 months really (more on that to come). We have 2 DC , one is 8 and one is 4.

The main problem over the years (although there have been others) has been P basically absenting himself from family life. It wasn't so bad until our 2nd DC was born, but it became awful after that. He is self-employed and does not earn much at all , just a very basic equiv of minimum wage, yet he 'works' all hours, loads of hours, on his business. I says 'works' because I know he spends much longer working than necessary ie he just pisses about 'working' after he has done his required 9 hours or whatever he will stay at work 'working' but really he will be tinkering about with things. He stays at his mothers A LOT (she lives nearby). Sometimes with one of the DC, sometimes not. He goes on frequent camping trips also as a hobby, again sometimes with one of the DC, sometimes not.

All of this means he is generally only in the house in the early evening for dinner with us 1 night a week (!) or maybe 2 at a push. He leaves for work in the morning and does not come back until 9pm on a good day when kids are already in bed. At least 2/3 nights a week he stays at his mothers. This means we have next to ZERO family time. I feel like we are strangers and I resent the fact that he does not seem to see family time together as important for the kids. Also when the kids do see him, they see it as a novelty "fun time", because I am the one who does all the boring day to day stuff with them (I work only 2 days a week).

The issue is the next to zero family time. He makes loads of excuses for this (usually involving work). We have argued, I have tried practically begging him to spend more time at home in the past, I have tried threats, tried everything, I used to get really upset and feel rejected but I have hardened myself to him now. He always says he will change it but then does not and ignores it when I bring it up to him that he has not made changes. I have got to the point now that I feel it does not matter the reasons WHY he is hardly here, all that matters is that it is unsustainable for any family to function like this and I want out.

Until 2 weeks ago, we were actually separated since May of this year because of this issue. We had been discussing things and made an agreement that he would be in the house in the early evenings at least 4 days per week. He agreed to this. But as predicted, it has not happened!

I feel he has broken enough agreements and that it is not feasible to go on any further now. However I know him and I know that he will just turn it round on me and say I have "thrown him out" of his family home, denied the children their father etc. He will point blank refuse to acknowledge what I say at all. He is not abusive per se (although I agree that him ignoring me deliberately and pressing the reset button so to speak all the time is a form of abuse, but that's all he does) - so we are not in any danger.

I just don't know what to say to him - the words I mean. If I try to speak in person or on phone as soon as he senses where the conversation is going (I think he knows I want out now - I made it very clear 2 weeks ago this was last chance), he will walk away or completely ignore me or hang up. So it sounds silly, but I need to do it via email and keep re-iterating the same definitive message over and over and over. Also it has to be quite short, as he does not seem to take in long emails / texts.

I know this sounds really silly, but does anyone more eloquent and less rambling (have you seen the length of this post!) than me, have any ideas on how to consolidate a relatively short and to the point email which I can just send him again and again when he tries to say it's all my fault how could I leave him / do this to the children blah blah blah ?

Thanks ever so much if you have made it this far x

ps - house is rented and in my name and anyway he seems to prefer his mothers so I don't think there will be any legal problem there, although he may refuse to leave initially.

OK I am going to think this over for a while and work up the courage or whatever to do what has to be done .

He is going on a camping trip tomorrow (what a surprise there) so I may email or text him just before he leaves (cowards way out I know!) so I won't have to face him tomorrow night.

Or is that a bad idea because then he will undoubtedly think that oh it will all blow over whilst I'm away and things will just be the same when I get back - no break up la la la. ? Hmm.

I know you've said he won't listen (and you should know) but I just think I might try to tell him in person, possibly before he goes off on camping trip so he can mull it over/ let it sink in (possibly?) whilst he's away.
Possibly I'm imaging my own DP though, and not yours.

whoops, touch of dyslexia creeping in there .... imagining

I wrote this down before I read the replies.

There has to be more input to our family than you fathering the DCs and paying for them. We miss you but you are happy to spend more time away than with us. So let's call it a day, and officially live apart, and move on, and you can still see the DCs as much as you ever did.

Now I see that you want to be more forceful so you'd probably want to start with something like, "I have decided" or "My mind's made up" or (longwinded), "We seem no further forward than before our last discussion" or just "Nothing's changed".

Thanks.

I think I will go ahead with telling him before he goes on the trip.

Donkeys that is an excellent thing to say, and what I would have probably said too, however knowing him his answer to that would be "Oh but I am not happy spending so much time away from my family - it is out of necessity which you do not understand being so black and white about everything" - that is along the lines of what he would say to that. It's not necessity and it's not acceptable but that would be his justification ! So I think I'm just going to have to go down the forceful route, although it's not in my nature.

I wish you the best of luck. It is a difficult conversation to have, especially if he twists and argues. Just repeat and repeat. Could you have the conversation on neutral ground without the kids there? Or would that be impossible?

And have you got a mate or something to be some support this weekend. I hate to think of you being on your own. I know this has been coming for a while and you have separated before, but this is final and you may feel a bit down.

Thanks GetOrf .

I could probably get some family to watch the kids for a few hours but he would not come back from work at the time required, for a "discussion" with me, especially not about the relationship. He would come back probably if I asked hi to have a date with me, or go for dinner or something romantic, but I would feel completely evil tricking him like that! I suppose the fact that he refuses to discuss any of the problems is my answer though anyway.

I have a few friends who will support me and may visit if I asked them to. I do feel down about it - because I did love him and a small part of that love is still there, and because he says he loves me even if the way he acts is not indicative of love, and because this is not how I wanted it to be when I had children (does anyone?!), and for myself because it's very unlikely I will meet anyone else (due to various issues, some medical and some emotional). However I don't feel too bad because I know that it can't be worse than it is just now - the non-existent family life will always keep me and the kids miserable - and that's no life.

I'm sorry for the sadness there's bound to be in parting
Do lean on your friends over the weekend - I'm sure they'll want to be there for you x

Oh dear that was so sad to read. No matter how right the decision is to leave him, it's still so hard because of the love you had and all the hopes that you when you first got together. He probably does love you in his own way, but he sounds so selfish. You can't live like that, you would probably end up resenting or even hating him.

Please do lean on your friends, don't try and be strong and cope on your own. Take care.

I totally identify with 'being cast as the shouty mum'.

I used to try and get ex to spend more time with his DDs but to no avail. Now he has every other weekend (and one teatime a week) but he takes them
To his mum & dads house which is a good drive away and the kids are Knackered from
The 'fun stuff'. Just be aware that you can't control what he does with them when it's 'his' time . He may carry on allowing his mum to do all the boring stuff. But you'll be do
Much better off without this person who just contributing to the team . So sorry you are in this place.

I do resent him already, and at times I do feel hate for him and of course I hate his manipulative side. I agree he probably does love us in his own way, but he is and has always been (looking back without the rose tinted specs of early love) a sort of loner-type person. He is quite friendly but was never really the type to want "tied down", which I was completely fine with - I was 19 when we met, he was 27. I was not the one who instigated babies or commitment - HE did actually, although I was obviously happy with it. I think what happened is that he fell in love with me and thought a family with me was what he wanted (his mother has always said he was dead set against having any children before he met me). But then the rosy love feelings probably wore off a few years in and post DC1 and the reality was not what he had imagined so he has went back to his 'original' self - which is not compatible with a family life. But he still wants both worlds. Well it is not possible so I am sure we are splitting up now.

Yeah he will 100% just let his um do all the hard work with them. I'll just have to accept that. I cannot force him, although it has caused problems when we were split May until recently, because the kids just want him all the time because he is fun, doesn't "force" them to have baths etc (in the words of eldest DC)

and yet, you are weighed down by his opinion of you, your need (?) to have his good opinion. It's complicated, and at least you understand that you don't love him. I know sometimes people mistake that connection, that blurred line between what they want and what their partner or x partner wants them to want, or wants them to be !!

it counts for little that he loves you in his own way. It's not a way that meets your needs. My x was like this. Made out like a family was an albatross around his neck or something but we all danced to his tune and pandered to his whims..

Yes that is true. It's not a way that meets the family needs as a whole either.

I don't know why I have this compulsion to ensure that he has a good opinion of me. I also have this belief that I have to 100% make SURE that I didn't cause this. This is why the situation has went on for years now, because I was getting all tangled up in the emotions of it and not recognising the practical aspects. This time I put it to him in purely practical terms and he agreed in practical terms to be in the house on 4 evenings a week at least, so there is now concrete 'evidence' that he needs to go. Whereas before there wasn't.

Maybe he can sense something, because he called me from work today and spoke for a while to DS and then when he spoke to me he mumbled something about how his long hours is making him feel "suicidal"

Wow. More manipulation? How's your resolve feeling?

If you mean am I still going to leave him , then I am 100% still going to leave as I know for certain that sad as it may be (and it is sad, I am feeling a bit sad this evening), that the alternative of living in some kind of fake family when he is barely in the house, is worse.

The reasons don't matter any more. He has had years to change things, or even change jobs. But he never has.

I don't feel happy about it, especially for the kids. They obviously know something is up from our trial separation but they will know for sure when he leaves permanently. I have no idea how to tell them, not good with this sort of thing!

Yeah, telling the DCs was by far the hardest part for me. (Second time less so than first time, though.)

Initially, they wanted to know practicalities: where will he live? Where will we live? When will we see him? Does he/do you still love us? Might you leave us too? Will you argue a lot? Do you hate him?

he has a view of himself as this involved father who is "doing the best he can" - and that view does not change, regardless of the actual reality.

Don't know if this would ease the guilt, (not that I feel you should feel any), but in a weird sort of way if you finish, you could actually be doing him a favour? Perhaps couch it in terms of, you accept that this cannot go on, if he is so stressed at trying to keep head space for himself whilst maintaining an orthodox style of family man plus his job. What comes normally and naturally to other adult men for some reason is plainly beyond him.

If you can think of it in these terms, you absolve yourself.

When we were separated May til 2 weeks ago, we did not tell them. I just didn't know how to. He is barely here anyway their whole lives so far pretty much so to be honest they mentioned it a few times but they genuinely could not really tell the difference. They both seemed quite happy and content that they would see daddy at nana's house, and didn't ask any questions. Hope I have not done them psychological damage by not telling them . He used to always say on the phone to them that daddy will be coming home soon, which used to make me really angry because to me that is manipulative.

Donkeys, sorry I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean putting it in a poor you, your job is so stressful, you don't have any time for anything else, it's best if you leave to get some headspace way?

x x

Well, once I'd answered all the questions I mentioned before, they accepted that life wouldn't be far different from before and they have been, on the whole, fine since. So I think psychological damage is unlikely! :)

I can see what Donkeys is getting at. Given what you've said abouthis promises to change, though, you could end up in an awful conversation where you say 'It's best for you if you go' and he replies 'No I want what's best for the kids so I'll stay' both of you arguing for the opposite of what you actually want.

Stop trying to explain. Stop trying to make him understand. It won't ever happen. This isn't even about him any more. All you need to know is what you want and what you need, and take it from there.

Thanks so much for all your views.

DS just had a night terror and he called in the middle of it to say he was on his way 'home'. At 9.40pm, when he was at his mum's last night and night before, haven't seen him since MONDAY morning! That is unbelievable!!!! I feel anger rising in me but also a sort of dread about "telling him" - I think it's going to have to be by text / email in the morning. I'm too much of a coward to start an argument tonight, as that's what it will escalate to with his defensiveness.

I know what I need and actually want to do (I say want because I want to move on with my life finally after being in limbo since May and in years of heartache before that), but it's soooo hard to just get the words out.

Then doesn't say anything at all.

Take his stuff to his mum's and silently leave it there with a letter saying "I am out"

Then turn off the phone, put the bolts on the doors, invite round a friend to stay the night and go to bed.

don't

Sorry, it was clear in my head, couldn't quite articulate it. I didn't mean, tell him poor you etc, it was more, explain it thus to yourself, so you can justify it and feel you gave it your all.

I agree, he'll argue and debate until the cows come home, that won't change anything.

I so often see on these pages, a poster keen to Do The Right Thing, and be satisfied she really did her best, which I respect - but secretly wish she'd call a halt to it for her own sanity.