Want to finally leave partner - can any of you MN'er's help me with what to actually SAY?

[wanttofinallyleave]

A bit of the backstory to this -

We have been together for 9 years, but not the past 6 months really (more on that to come). We have 2 DC , one is 8 and one is 4.

The main problem over the years (although there have been others) has been P basically absenting himself from family life. It wasn't so bad until our 2nd DC was born, but it became awful after that. He is self-employed and does not earn much at all , just a very basic equiv of minimum wage, yet he 'works' all hours, loads of hours, on his business. I says 'works' because I know he spends much longer working than necessary ie he just pisses about 'working' after he has done his required 9 hours or whatever he will stay at work 'working' but really he will be tinkering about with things. He stays at his mothers A LOT (she lives nearby). Sometimes with one of the DC, sometimes not. He goes on frequent camping trips also as a hobby, again sometimes with one of the DC, sometimes not.

All of this means he is generally only in the house in the early evening for dinner with us 1 night a week (!) or maybe 2 at a push. He leaves for work in the morning and does not come back until 9pm on a good day when kids are already in bed. At least 2/3 nights a week he stays at his mothers. This means we have next to ZERO family time. I feel like we are strangers and I resent the fact that he does not seem to see family time together as important for the kids. Also when the kids do see him, they see it as a novelty "fun time", because I am the one who does all the boring day to day stuff with them (I work only 2 days a week).

The issue is the next to zero family time. He makes loads of excuses for this (usually involving work). We have argued, I have tried practically begging him to spend more time at home in the past, I have tried threats, tried everything, I used to get really upset and feel rejected but I have hardened myself to him now. He always says he will change it but then does not and ignores it when I bring it up to him that he has not made changes. I have got to the point now that I feel it does not matter the reasons WHY he is hardly here, all that matters is that it is unsustainable for any family to function like this and I want out.

Until 2 weeks ago, we were actually separated since May of this year because of this issue. We had been discussing things and made an agreement that he would be in the house in the early evenings at least 4 days per week. He agreed to this. But as predicted, it has not happened!

I feel he has broken enough agreements and that it is not feasible to go on any further now. However I know him and I know that he will just turn it round on me and say I have "thrown him out" of his family home, denied the children their father etc. He will point blank refuse to acknowledge what I say at all. He is not abusive per se (although I agree that him ignoring me deliberately and pressing the reset button so to speak all the time is a form of abuse, but that's all he does) - so we are not in any danger.

I just don't know what to say to him - the words I mean. If I try to speak in person or on phone as soon as he senses where the conversation is going (I think he knows I want out now - I made it very clear 2 weeks ago this was last chance), he will walk away or completely ignore me or hang up. So it sounds silly, but I need to do it via email and keep re-iterating the same definitive message over and over and over. Also it has to be quite short, as he does not seem to take in long emails / texts.

I know this sounds really silly, but does anyone more eloquent and less rambling (have you seen the length of this post!) than me, have any ideas on how to consolidate a relatively short and to the point email which I can just send him again and again when he tries to say it's all my fault how could I leave him / do this to the children blah blah blah ?

Thanks ever so much if you have made it this far x

ps - house is rented and in my name and anyway he seems to prefer his mothers so I don't think there will be any legal problem there, although he may refuse to leave initially.

Mistake one is to feel that you are obliged to find and say the perfect combination of words that will make him understand, or make him give you his blessing to leave!

That won't happen.

Stick to what can't be argued with.

I wish I'd known this when I left, cos I stupidly went with the perfect combination of words in a futile attempt to receive his blessing.

If I could go back in time I'd say

"this is not working. I don't love you. I'm so unhappy. I have made the decision to end this relationship, some time ago actually, so I know I won't change my mind. Now I am brave enough to leave you"

he will then say that I am just flippantly denying the children a proper family because I don't want to be in a relationship with him. To which I would probably reply "well it has never been a proper family anyway

You're quite right! But think it, don't say it.

Or come back to your thread and say it here, where you'll get affirmation that you're not going mad. The EA support thread on here was the other thing that got me through my successful breakup!

just read what you plan to say, and actually, I would leave out your assessment of what's fair, as that will be subjective obviously and he will instantly argue with it.

Don't be afraid to say what can't be argued with. If you get in to explanations as to WHY you're not happy he'll just come back with what you do to make him unhappy, blah blah blah.

Stick to a pick and mix of these statements.

I am unhappy living with you.
This relationship is over.
I don't love you (don't be afraid to say this)
I don't like this life.
I no longer wait for/hope that you'll change. I've given up on you.
My faith in you is gone now. I've no optimism left.
I am planning a different future now.
I should have ended this relationship years ago. (if you want to say sorry), say "i'm sorry I played a part in stringing this torture out for years longer than was necessary".

ps, yes, resist the come back.

Who said "what you think of me is none of my business".

For years I couldn't stand that my flawed x saw all these imaginary flaws in ME but thought he was blameless. Now i let him stew merrily in his own delusions. Obviously it does take more than 72 hours to get that kind of emotional detachment, but the comeback just perpetuates the sorry cycle. The comeback sends a message to your sub conscious that YOU still care what he thinks of YOU>

YOU do not care what he thinks of your leaving him. He can actually think whatever the bloody hell he likes about you leaving him.

Yes GetOrf, I think he has always struggled with the more difficult aspects of having DC like the tantrums and relentless grind although he does play a good game / show for example goes to their parent's nights and makes a big song and dance about it, takes them on short trips (and gets MAJORLY stressed out trying to look after them himself , which is what I do everyday ), does all the fun stuff. I'm not sure if the tantrums and stuff especially when they were very young sort of 'put him off' and made him absent himself from family life because he could (ie "working long hours", a mum who lives nearby etc). But frankly, I don't care, I and every other parent out there just has to get on with things and take the rough parts of parenting with the smooth, why not him.

I think he prefers his mothers not because of housework or food reasons (as I do all housework and cooking and I prefer it that way strangely because I enjoy it!), but because he can sit in his 'old' room and watch TV etc in peace without having to engage with anyone, his mother makes NO demands on him (she is a total martyr) so he prefers it there. He uses excuses like he will be working very late so doesn't want to wake DC up (!), or if DC are ill he will say he cannot afford to get ill as he is self employed and gets no sick leave so therefore he "needs" to go up to his mothers until they are non-infectious (!!!), he needs to find important documents or do paperwork, something needs done in his mothers house. Blah Blah Blah. Basically any excuse he thinks sounds plausible that he can defend.

Re his dad - no he has only seen his dad I think 3-4 times in his whole life (at birth, age 4, age 18 and age 27), all of these times his dad was nice to him, said they should form a relationship etc, and then never called him back . It is a shame, but we all have our issues and is not depressed, he puts plenty of energy into his own pursuits and life, so why not the most important thing - our family?!

Yes, think it but don't say it. He will probably come out with all kinds of crap because he thinks it will get a rise out of you, because this has worked in the past (residency of the children etc). I know it's really, really hard but do t engage.

Whatever he says just say 'I have made my mind u0p, this is my decision, I do r need you to agree with me but I want to end the relationship'. If he starts saying you're breaking up the family say something benign like 'that's your opinion, but hm opinion doesn't change, I don't want thus relationship any more' if he says about taking the kids don't rise (hard I know) and just say 'I have made my decision, we can discuss what happens with the children at a later date' calmly as you can.

If you can try and predict what arguments he will bring and work out a calm and measured answer to each one.

Practice saying 'I have decided that I want to end the relationship' or whatever out loud. This might sound insane, but ending a relationship is such a strong statement, I remember when I said it to XP I took myself by surprise and got all flustered. I wish I had prepared myself a bit more, like a presentation at work.

That is such good advice mumbrage and Charlotte.

Christ OP he sounds like a big baby going into his old room! Has he got his old ZX Spectrum + or something in there which he plays with!

It's so unfair that he seems to have opted out of family life with you. How bloody lonely that is. I promise you you won't feel as lonely as a single parent. You are oractically one now anyway, but with all the resentment and disappointment of his behaviour hanging over you all.

yes it's a tragedy, blah blah blah. I don't mean that rudely. I mean, I want you to distance yourself from his childhood. Don't sacrifice your adult life trying to change his Worldviews, the ones he formed in childhood, because unless he's in psychotherapy you can never succeed. I know because I wasted years trying (subconsicously) to be the woman who didn't let my x down! pah! and all the time HE was the one letting me down ! Don't fall for it.
So, his childhood wasn't great. That's sad. But your children's childhood is more important than your futile attempt to correct the imprint his childhood left on him.

Apols for typos all over the place.

Mistake one is to feel that you are obliged to find and say the perfect combination of words that will make him understand, or make him give you his blessing to leave

This is exactly where I am going wrong!

Perhaps I am still waiting for the lightbulb to go off in his head to make him suddenly realise what he is missing out on and what he is doing and he will wake up and change. But I know he won't. He knows it is unacceptable him being absent so much. He knows. But obviously he does not feel the need to do anything about it, even when I left him for 6 months. Sure he was upset etc, but not enough to do anything about it. And then he's only been "back" 2 weeks and has almost immediately defaulted on our agreement we had - and I even put a "no excuses" clause in our agreement . Straight back to "normal", ie making excuses to stay at his mothers too much, "working" til 9pm ish rather than coming back at 6 as we agreed 4 nights a week of doing. He has done so 3 times in 2 weeks!

Thanks for all the suggestions they have been so helpful in knowing what to say rather than saying my default which is over-explaining and being manipulated by him twisting things.

ps, and you know what, since I left my x, he seems less self-pitying, less of a blamer, less bitter. Ok, it's taken 7 years to get to that point. BUt I thought that my leaving him was the final nail in the coffin for him, that it would destroy his faith in womankind and that he'd never recover from it, and that I'd be partly to blame for his distorted and jaundiced views! Well no, not at all, for a few years he drove younger women around in his fast car, and slowly over time, I think he's grown to accept the benefits of being a part-time father.

Yes don't go down the road of feeling for him because of his dad issues. Yes it's horrible, but loads of people have crap childhoods and because of that they work very hard not to be a crao parent themselves. His father story is very sad, but that's not your fault. I don't even know who my father is, and I don't use it as an excuse to piss off for hours on end leaving responsibilities to others.

You sound like you have bent over backwards to help him and been selfless in the process, you should now start thinking of yourself and be selfish.

Wanttofinallyleave, yeh, it takes a real eureka moment to build that wall around yourself where 'what he thinks of you is none of your business' but fake it til you make it cos that will speed it up.

I can't believe the power my x's bad opinion of me used to have over me. I can't understand why I needed his good opinion of me. Why I sought his blessing to be allowed to leave him????

Don't do what I did. I left him, and spent years arguing with him. Justifying my decision to leave, detailing his ridiculous behaviour but he wouldn't acknowledge it either! it was as though you were telling him what somebody else had done, he was so indignant! so genuinely indignant!

repeat a million billion times "what he thinks of me is none of my business" and eventually i swear to god you'll believe it, and then you'll be free. speed up that process by not wasting years entering in to pointless discussions with him in an attempt to get him to ADMIT that you had no choice but to leave. Do what I didn't do

GetOrf, yes he has an X Box in the old room!

He sometimes tries to justify it by taking one of the DCs with him (never both, probably because he can't handle them bickering and he is a one on one person). However that is no excuse in my mind, because there is next to ZERO family time with us altogether.

ps, and if you're waiting for him to have a eureka moment, you'll be pushing water uphill for the rest of your life. my x still hasn't had it, only thing is, now i don't care.

some of these types believe they want a family but they don't want to be 50% of an equal team. They don't want to love and be loved, or to give and take, or all pull together. NO they want all of their needs met, in a format that is conventional in its appearance (a family) but at no inconvenience to them whatsoever.

Justifying my decision to leave, detailing his ridiculous behaviour but he wouldn't acknowledge it either! it was as though you were telling him what somebody else had done, he was so indignant! so genuinely indignant

This is EXACTLY what happens. Wow - are they all the same! . The indignant thing is sooo him. Even if I try to present it in a factual way - only the facts of what he has done / not done, he completely ignores as if it never happened, or that it wasn't him who did that, it was someone else. he has a view of himself as this involved father who is "doing the best he can" - and that view does not change, regardless of the actual reality.

Yeah I know re the childhood. I had the most horrendously traumatic 'late childhood' ie from age 12 and while it still affects me now I try my hardest to do things right for my own children.

Same here, Mumbrage, my STBXH will not accept he had any part in the marriage breakup. It is of course completely my fault - for giving up.

Just reading your draft text OP and noticing that you ended with "you will have to go back to your Mum's" - and just thinking that you do not have to take responsibility for what he chooses to do - where he lives, just not working for you anymore with him living with you (occasionally!)

Am sorry he hasn't been prepared to commit more to family life, he's had many chances to improve things even a little, and not taken them

some of these types believe they want a family but they don't want to be 50% of an equal team. They don't want to love and be loved, or to give and take, or all pull together. NO they want all of their needs met, in a format that is conventional in its appearance (a family) but at no inconvenience to them whatsoever

This is exactly what I believe he wants.

I so wish I didn't care what he thinks. Or what his mother will think either. But mostly him. I really hope I can get to that point like the rest of you! It has taken me long enough to get to this point of realising what is actually going on and to stop making any excuses for him.

Are we all talking about narcs? I'm certain mine is. These guys all sound rather detached from reality, high opinions of themselves, extreme entitlement. Not interested in love or equal partnership.

Realising he most likely had NPD really helped me to detach. I was nothing to him, except a useful tool for making his life easier. He's only being nice to me now because he thinks he stands to get something out of it.

You'll have to grit your teeth and get through it.

I feel sorry for my x's mum now. I'd never gloat, I'd never say "you backed the wrong horse ey love" but now that she and her son (my x) seem to have fallen out, she doesn't seem to see much of her grandchildren.

I always understood that she loved her son, and loved her grandchildren, and even though she was vile to me, I always knew that her chaotic anger was fueled by her lack of control over the situation. But, not over-burdened with intelligence as she is, she chose the short term route of being a bitch to me. Now, years down the line, I haven't patronised her by saying "i forgive you" but I think she knows that I had good reasons for leaving her precious son. I have said to her that she can see the children whenever she likes. But it still hurts her that her son excludes her, that she ask to ask me if she can see them, that they can't all meet up together, grandmother, son and grandchildren. But if she's stupid enough to blame me for the way things have panned out, then I guess it'd be like trying to get cross with a headless chicken at this poinnt!

So, put on your hard hat and just endure the insults. Every insult fired at you is a little bit less anger that they hold. It'll get easier. If you just carry on with your life, carry on prioritising the children, eventually even mothers-in-law have a morcel of humble pie.

oh yes, mine definitely has npd!
Very successful professionally, financially, speaks well. As another poster said, he has an ego because he is tall and handsome and educated and wealthy but no self-esteem, clearly, as he has to remind other people (in various ways, sometimes subtle, sometimes not) that he is superior to them. Massive ego, no self-esteem. It's a hideous combination.

I mean, another poster said that about her x and I thought, bingo, snap snap snap. I didn't mean another poster had met my x. (although statistically I suppose that must be true)

Massive ego, no self-esteem. YY, that. Very succinct!