Please tell me honestly, is it me being out of order here?

[BikerMiceFromMars]

NC for this post.

Dh and I have been together 10 years, married 5. We have two dc - one 2years old one 10 weeks.

For as long as we've lived together, he has always gone out drinking with friends after work. Up until 18 months ago it was 3-4 times a week, but since life has got considerably harder for me (went back to work full time pregnant, looking after toddler and newborn, do all the housework, 90% of parenting, handle all finances, and will be returning back to work again FT very soon), I have asked him to cut back going out to once a week.

Money is very tight at the moment as it is and even if it wasn't a money issue life's very tough for me atm I've got pnd a trying to struggle through each day, so really look forward to his home time to get a bit of help at bedtime. If he's not out drinking he comes home around 8pm and out from 7am, so out the house for long hours.

When he's put drinking hell drink until 1-2am and roll home steaming drunk maybe 3-4am.

The biggest problem I have is that he'll text or call that he's on his way home and bringing dinner with him, then I'll wait, wait and wait and by 9/10pm I realise he's out drinking and order a takeaway and he'll come home in the early hours and there's always an excuse as to why he had to go out.

He'll never call to say he's staying out as he knows I'll get angry and always switches his phone off so he's not contactable. This really upsets me as I feel with two small children we should always be contactable to each other - either keep your phone on or let me know the bar you're in at he very least. What if I had an accident, or one of the dc had to go hospital. We have no car and not family nearby so I think it's important we should be able to rely on each other.

We had row after row about this behaviour, he always apologises but does it yet again.

I never ever EVER get time to myself, I don't get to haveax pram fom night out, or even go to the gym as he's never home early enough for me to go out int he evening to the gym for an hour or so, and one the weekend he's usually too hungover to look after dc.

This has gone on for so many years now, I'm beginning to think am I being the one that's out of order? Is it totally normal a nd accept ale for him to go out drinking to the point of falling in the street whenever he fancies it, and not tell me and leave me waiting for him.

I could understand if it was every once in a while say once every other week, but it's whenever he feels like it. Literally. He acts like a single man instead of a father of a toddler and baby.

I really am doubting myself now as to whether I'm being unreasonably by asking him to be home every night at least for the next month or so while I'm struggling so much and then maybe go out once every other week until life gets easier for me. I understand if he's late back because of work, but it's just hurtful when he says he's on his waxy home then turns his phone off and stays out til 3am.

Just so I don't leave anything out, he's had a weeks holiday away with friends 3 weeks ago, which was nonstop drinking so it's not like he's not gone out in years.

Me n the other hand, I can't remember even going the toilet alone without my toddler following me or baby screaming.

Oh and telling you you're a nag (because you talk about stuff that matters and you talk about yourself as if you matter, when actually you're just a convenience) is blaming you for his drinking.

That's what alcoholics do. They blame everyone else but themselves for their drinking.

So you're going to act like a single parent and wait for him to one day, after years of you raising his children, keeping his home, cooking for him, allowing him to treat you and speak to you like shit and allowing him to do whatever the fuck he wants without ever challenging him, decide that he'd rather treat you as an equal and give you the respect you deserve thus giving up his incredibly self centered, luxurious lifestyle?

It's not going to happen OP

Why not just get rid of this cocklodger, be a single parent and find your own happiness?
Honestly, it seems like such a huge obstacle but leaving a shitty partner is so liberating and a massive relief once you get over the initial hurdle.

You deserve better.

How would your life be different if he wasn't in it?

I can't see how it could be worse. He is not doing anything to make your life easier at all. If he went out and stayed out, you'd manage, you've managed so far when all he's bought in the door is uncertainty that upsets your life.

Biker, I was in your position years ago.My ex was a lovely man and I loved him very much but he had an alcohol problem.I finally left when my dad was 5.It was so hard as I could just see how happy we could be IF he stopped drinking but nothing I said would make a difference.Leaving was the best thing I did, I dread to think how my daughter would have grown up had I stayed.As a young adult she talks about her friends who have parents that drink excessively, there is a real impact on their lives.

I have a good relationship with my ex, he is still a nice man but he still drinks too much.Your H is using alcohol to cope, its a crutch and its beyond social drinking.

At some stage you will feel stronger and can leave, you are already coping as a single person.That will enable you to function really well.

Basilbabyeater is correct. The alcoholics mantra 'Always Somebody Else to Blame'.

My ex was like this. Always used to turn off phone when out drinking. Unpredictable. Never home when he said. Money down the drain. Attacked me if I thought it was unfair. He is now my ex. Things actually were easier when he moved out. I was doing everything myself anyway. A lightbulb moment for me was when I realised that there is no way on earth I would ever treat him the way he treated me. And if I had ve done, he would have left me.

Biker have you had any counselling for the PND? Also for the drinking, you could do with specialist counselling for that.

Sorry you are living like this, it is horrible to be in a relationship with someone who is treating you the way your OH is and I can see that denial is a self-defence mechanism. The thought of not having him in your home anymore, is horrifying and scary.

I just have to add something else though: If you make the choice to keep this man and his drinking in your home, you also make that choice for your children. You cannot protect them from being the children of an alcoholic. Lots of people who live with alcoholics, figure that they can manage it and minimise the damage caused to the children but however successful they think they're being, they still can't stop the fact that their partner drinks and their DC's grow up in a home where booze is the primary relationship in all their lives.

Apart from the booze, the way your OH treats you, is role modelling to his DC's how adult relationships work. Would you be happy if your DC's grew up and married someone who treated them the way you are treated?

This is what you are choosing for your DC's so you need to look that fact straight in the eye and know that you are choosing it if you decide that the role modelling that's best for your DC's, is to act as if you are a single parent when you're pretending to the rest of the world that you're part of a couple. Do you really want that to be their expectation of a relationship? I bet you think they deserve better. I wish you could believe that you deserve better too.

I am so tempted to tell you to leave but I shall not.

I've had two DC with the same kind of age gap and PND plus had to return to work pretty early as self employed, even with a very supportive DH it was so hard. And DH was making meals, taking DC1 out at weekends to allow me and DC2 duvet days, accepting I needed a cleaner and some childcare to function and generally had my back. Please look into counselling. It was a wonderful thing for me and I got out of the hole and saw the sun again sooner than I could have ever imagined. I found a group in my locale who did free counselling and had my first session a week after I called and cried down the phone for an hour. Get support from your Gp and hv as well for the PND. It's out there, you need it, you deserve it.

I have also been your DC though. My df is an alcoholic. You wouldn't call him abusive. Hail fellow well met. Charming. Outgoing. Wife a bit of a wet blanket. I love him very much but I would not choose my childhood for my children. DFs alcholism left its mark on my personally. I am a perfectionist control freak who can never relax and just be. Because my childhood taught me that there is never certainty around anything. Because my fathers alcoholism could explode into my wee world at any unforeseen moment like a grenade. I won't pretend my childhood has ruined my adulthood but my fathers alcoholism has had no postive impacts on my life.

If I can advise you, take this thread or start another to support you through your PND. Then look at your relationship. What it means to love and be loved by someone and what you deserve from your life partner. Because you deserve more.

So sorry you are going through this op. As others have all said you're worth more than this and your life shouldnt be this way.
Thanks for clarifying the driving issue x

My ex was like this. We had 2 children under 2. I asked him to leave. He didn't put up much of a fight but did manage to tell all his pub mates how much he loved me and how devasted he was.

I Never took him back. He now makes time for the children when he has them. I have also said there is a no drinking rule when he is responsible for them. (He thought it was reasonable to play golf, have a few pints and then pick them up to drive 1.5hrs!!!

OP please, please don't put up with this shit. He does not love you and is taking the absolute piss. You need to do something now. Take action rather than burying your head.

You keep saying he loves you and the children, but really... he doesn't. His actions prove it time and again. You love him and are looking for any excuse not to leave him. You'll leave one day. Not now, but in a 1-2-3 years' time. I just feel for you and the suffering you will put yourself and the kids through before you realise that you can't change him. The kids can't. It's impossible. He needs to do it himself.

Op,

This must be so hard for you. It's grieving in a way for the marriage that you want but do not have with him.

My concern if you stay is that there are no indication he will change anytime soon, his drinking, his attitude or his behaviour. I can only imagine what a negative environment that is to live in.

Take care of yourself op.

He has to understand what he is going to lose. The only way to do that is make him leave. He may then decide he has to change in order to regain his family and seek help. As things stand he doesn't have to change at all, even if you withdraw emotionally. That will just mean he can carry on drinking.i think you should talk to al anon as suggested above. For yourself.

As I said before the ones I knew who did this ended up divorced and 3 posters on this page alone here have referred to their ex's having been like this. The enphasis on my ex.
Stop waiting around. When do you think he is going to quit getting blind drunk 3-4 x per week. He is only going to get worse, 3-4 x per week will turn into 5x then 6x then every night.
I presume you have a nice house and friends and might think you will loose the house and loose face if you split. But it is only bricks and mortar and no one who is truly your friend will think any less of you if you end up in a rented flat instead of your nice owned home. Remember you have a job and without him in the way you can get back on your feet. You can budget, put your feet up in the evening and not have to worry about what he is getting up to or what time he will be home with your food. Or what money he is spending or who he is with. Living like you do with all the stress cannot be doing your PND any good.
Think of the next 10 years, you could dump him, organise yourself, get back on your feet and even meet someone who will treat you like you should be treated. Or you could maintain the status quo and end up 10 years older, loosing your home because your oh cannot work because of his alcoholism and end up in a rented flat cleaning up after him and working full time.
I have seen this scenario before and the wives always end up with happy lives with lovely men who treat them well.
Could your PND be linked to the way your life is at the moment? I cannot see how this sort of stress can be doing you any good.

I had a 5 yr old and 9mo old who didn't sleep when I was in your position. I nearly chucked him out but I couldn't go through with it because I felt I hadn't given him enough time to try to change and, realistically, with a tiny child even though he did F all with children, my head wasn't in the right place. I don't think you can leave him now. But you need to tell him very clearly how this is making you feel (rather than HE is always doing x or y wrong). Write it down somewhere for yourself and put it somewhere safe. I am now 2 years down the line and he moved out 2 months ago. We get on better and I am very much calmer about everything. He hasn't changed at all even though he has lost his family, but the 2 years allowed me to feel totally sure when I did finally crack and there's no going back now with all the shit I have put up with - the love has gone. You need to see a counsellor just to put it all in perspective for you too. 2 years will seem a long time for some, but there it is.

My DH doesn't drink quite as much as yours, OP, and a lot of it is at home, usually after I've gone to bed, but I have had to make the "single mother decision" too. To me preferable than being a real single mother (with HUGE apologies to all you real, brave single mothers out there). I still resent him like hell and give him all sorts of trouble after the fact, unless I'm ignoring it and him. I guess I vacillate between Martyr and Provoker. It's shit, but the times he is here and present and participating in our family life make up for it. So far.

Hi OP

Give him an ultimatum, have someone mind the kids for a night and have a meal together and just tell him what you are saying to us, that you need things to change or you are just going to have to go at it alone, make him clear what that will mean for your relationship.

Be strong and firm and decisive. Give him the opportunity to change.

Poor you, it sounds like being a single mum would be easier but it's one of those things that you don't know until you try!!

In the meantime, can you see if your local
Home start can help. Mine offered a PND support course - and the childcare to allows me to do it.

I'd also look into Al Anon. It'd be useful to educate yourself about how things may develop in the future.

I don't know what else to do. I don't want to leave him we love each other and he loves his children

You keep repeating this, but I would ask you - why do you love him? What is it that is loveable?
Where is the evidence that he loves you or the children? He doesn't see enough of you (of his own choice) for that to be true.

Read your posts as if someone else had written them - what would you say to that poster?

Do you have any family or friends who can see what is happening and could support you?

Either he is an alcoholic or a selfish arse. He sounds immature and irresponsible. Love is a verb, it's about action, so how can he love you when he treats you like this? He won't change unless he realises he could lose his family.

I'm not convinced that he loves you or your Dcs, A loving father would want to see them as often as he can and wouldn't say he has to drink to get away from you and your nagging. He would also not need to be asked to 'help' he would be rushing home to do it because he cared.

Get the help that you need and then you will be in a better position to make choices.xx

Oh Op, would you treat him that way?

He won't be growing old with anyone Op, its his choice.

Oh my DP used to say he would stay out because he was sick of coming home and me nagging him about drinking. Of course, I wouldn't have been nagging if he weren't drinking! It's nonsense saying he has to stay out because of you. You do realise that, don't you? He'll make any excuse to ensure he can keep drinking.

No great insights from counselling yet - other than to realise how neglected I felt for so long. I'm feeling so much more positive about things now. There's a whole world of possibility out there. It's just that I spent so long keeping it together and keeping DP out of trouble that I forgot to raise my head every once in a while and think about me and what I want.

I really do wish you all the best. His behaviour is not your fault (I don't think this enabler talk does anything other than increase the guilt). You can change it. You can't cure it. Please try to prioritise you and your DCs. You only get one life. Please think about what would make you happy. x

Oops - you CAN'T change his behaviour, obvs.