Please tell me honestly, is it me being out of order here?

[BikerMiceFromMars]

NC for this post.

Dh and I have been together 10 years, married 5. We have two dc - one 2years old one 10 weeks.

For as long as we've lived together, he has always gone out drinking with friends after work. Up until 18 months ago it was 3-4 times a week, but since life has got considerably harder for me (went back to work full time pregnant, looking after toddler and newborn, do all the housework, 90% of parenting, handle all finances, and will be returning back to work again FT very soon), I have asked him to cut back going out to once a week.

Money is very tight at the moment as it is and even if it wasn't a money issue life's very tough for me atm I've got pnd a trying to struggle through each day, so really look forward to his home time to get a bit of help at bedtime. If he's not out drinking he comes home around 8pm and out from 7am, so out the house for long hours.

When he's put drinking hell drink until 1-2am and roll home steaming drunk maybe 3-4am.

The biggest problem I have is that he'll text or call that he's on his way home and bringing dinner with him, then I'll wait, wait and wait and by 9/10pm I realise he's out drinking and order a takeaway and he'll come home in the early hours and there's always an excuse as to why he had to go out.

He'll never call to say he's staying out as he knows I'll get angry and always switches his phone off so he's not contactable. This really upsets me as I feel with two small children we should always be contactable to each other - either keep your phone on or let me know the bar you're in at he very least. What if I had an accident, or one of the dc had to go hospital. We have no car and not family nearby so I think it's important we should be able to rely on each other.

We had row after row about this behaviour, he always apologises but does it yet again.

I never ever EVER get time to myself, I don't get to haveax pram fom night out, or even go to the gym as he's never home early enough for me to go out int he evening to the gym for an hour or so, and one the weekend he's usually too hungover to look after dc.

This has gone on for so many years now, I'm beginning to think am I being the one that's out of order? Is it totally normal a nd accept ale for him to go out drinking to the point of falling in the street whenever he fancies it, and not tell me and leave me waiting for him.

I could understand if it was every once in a while say once every other week, but it's whenever he feels like it. Literally. He acts like a single man instead of a father of a toddler and baby.

I really am doubting myself now as to whether I'm being unreasonably by asking him to be home every night at least for the next month or so while I'm struggling so much and then maybe go out once every other week until life gets easier for me. I understand if he's late back because of work, but it's just hurtful when he says he's on his waxy home then turns his phone off and stays out til 3am.

Just so I don't leave anything out, he's had a weeks holiday away with friends 3 weeks ago, which was nonstop drinking so it's not like he's not gone out in years.

Me n the other hand, I can't remember even going the toilet alone without my toddler following me or baby screaming.

just realised its nit a YNBU thread.
Anyway what I said still stands.
My mum was you for the first half of her relationship with my father we as the kids witnessed it too I s a very anxious kid because of it. Once she gained the strength (after 15 years) she kicked him out cut off all co tact and me and my sister refused to have anything to do with him he finally hit rock bottom and got his act together.
My parents could have saved us all years of misery if they had done it sooner.

biker he does it again because there are no consequences for his actions.

Even worse if its likely he will loose his job soon he needs to be more careful with his money. This just illustrates how little he really cares for his family that he refuses to secure their future instead he gets pissed.
Tough shit I don't care how much pressure a person is under its never a good enough excuse to be an alcoholic destroying his family.

There will always be an excuse. Always. A different one each time and each one very well argued out. But it's all meaningless.

I recognise the use of "had to" as well.

I am you, a decade on.

It's not a nice life.

We do love each other and he loves the children that I don't doubt...but he has no consideration for me at all. I very much feel he has a srink problem but he says if I have the problem with him drinking then i need to arrange counselling for him etc as he doesn't think he has one. I'm too busy rasing the children and dealing with household finances and tenants etc. I feel luke I have a full time job plus I do have a full time job I'll be going back to very soon.

re money I use nt salart for galf the mortgage and all household bills childcare shopping etc. He uses hus for the other half of the mortgage and food. The rest goes on himself. He has credit cards and an expense account so takes full uae of that.

How does he get so bladdered 4 nights a week and still be functioning for work the next day???

I'd be livid, OP, you are being taken for a mug.

Your lovely little babies are being ignored by their own DF at such a beautiful time in their lives. They and you deserve better.

You've had great advice here. He's an arsehole.

I am a barmaid. I would estimate that the average bloke spends a minimum of £30 to get steaming drunk over several hours. That's just steadily drinking pints. If he's buying other people drinks or shots it could easily be 40-50 quid, 3 times a week.

Do you have 120-150 a week spare for his booze?

That money should be spent on you and your family, not for him to piss up the wall.

Would the cost of his drinking shock him? I know most people don't realise just how much they are spending.

Those figures are based on a pub, if he's in bars/clubs then double that amount.

needles he's used to it and also in our industry its really common place to be out drinking "socialising" after work and be hungover the next day. For alot of ppl work is their entire life but it doesn't have to be. I managed to separate work from my personal life. The difference is he likes being out and I see it as a necessity if I have to. I always rushee home as soon as I could to see dd and will do the same. I caught up on work at night or weekend during nap times to spend as much time as possible with my family.

Thank you all for listening.

southern he has an expense account so I'd say half his drinking budget is expensed. The other half is our money.

Poor you, it is not fair.

He is selfish, entitled and does not care about you or the kids.

He is putting himself first.

Was he always like this? I do despair for women who have kids with men like this, TBH. What a life. It's not normal, it's awful.

Love is something that is demonstrated by actions, not words. Of course YANBU. Your DH is behaving in a very very selfish and unfair manner. I am so sorry for you. You absolutely need to call him on this. The redundancy thing is a red herring as going drinking every night is not a good way to commend yourself to your employer.

What sort of father did your DH have? Would his mother have accepted this from his father? If not, then point that out to him. Ask him to name other people known to you both (? neighbours and friends) who treat their families the way he does his and ask him why he thinks he behaves so differently and whether that is reasonable?

If your DH doesn't change then your marriage won't last. Absolutely he has to commit to being in 6 nights a week, and on one of those nights to have sole charge so it is your turn to have a life. Perhaps he can turn this around.

I'm sorry to hear this OP.
You are not being unreasonable. He is. He thinks it his right to go out whenever he wants without a thought for you and his children. If my OH behaved like this I would leave him. You are with a selfish asshole who doesn't love or care for you and behaves exactly the way he wants regardless of your feelings. He could be having an affair, but would it make a difference? Just the disregard for you in his drinking and leaving you to do anything is bad enough. I'm angry and sad for you. LTB.

OP, YOU are not OOO here. Your H is. He sounds completely selfish. what a waste of time. Does he really work from 7am to 8pm? Not telling you where he's going and switching his phone off would be a deal breaker to me tbh - does he care about you or his dc at all? It doesn't sound like it. I'd ask hm to leave. You would be no worse off at all without him - maybe much better off, as you wouldn't be worrying about him all the time. Do you have family or friends locally?

Wow, OP! I would NEVER put up with any of this!!!! You say you love each other but theres absolutely NO RESPECT from him. No decent human being would do this to his wife and children!!
My hubby is a City Finance boy working long hours sometimes, earning a good salary. Sometimes, he will go down to the pub for a drink but most of the time he just wants to get out of work and rush home to see his DD and me!

I would never put up with the way he's treating you!!!

BikermicefromMars,

Re your recent comments:-

"We do love each other and he loves the children that I don't doubt...but he has no consideration for me at all".

This above sentence contradicts itself; how can he love you if he has no consideration for me at all. He has NO consideration for anything other than drink, his main thought is where the next drink is going to come from.

"I very much feel he has a srink problem but he says if I have the problem with him drinking then i need to arrange counselling for him etc as he doesn't think he has one"

Denial is commonly seen in alcoholics and he is also likely badly underestimating how much he is drinking. And NO, you do not have to arrange counselling for him, that is not your job here. You've enabled him for too long now as it is.

You are also playing a role here; you alternate between provoker and enabler. Both are highly damaging to you and your children will pick up on all this as well. You cannot fully protect them from him and his associated alcoholism.

How many people know he has a drink problem?. Not many I daresay, also alcoholism thrives on secrecy.

What do you get out of this relationship now, what needs of yours (co-dependency perhaps) are being met here?.

Where is your own line in the sand; what would it take for you to actually leave him?. Does he drive drunk.

His occupation is not an excuse; regardless of occupation this man would still drink to excess because he is at heart an alcoholic. He would also find any excuse or occasion to do so as well. You look at his buddies, I bet you without exception they are all his drinking buddies, people who constantly prop up the bar and perhaps some of them are alcoholics too.

He has a job, well currently he does and he may well hold it down to some extent. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that he will lose this job at some point due to his alcoholism. Does he drive whilst drunk or hungover?. Would you trust him at all to look after the children without you being there?.

OP, I am so sorry you are going through this. Like other posters I was married to a man like this for 12 years. I should have left after 2 but had two little children and was too scared. I had another child before I finally called it a day two years ago. I accepted excuse after excuse but eventually his selfish and frankly abusive behaviour killed any love I had left for him. I am now doing the Freedom Programme and realising just how badly damaged I am from those years of tolerating being treated so badly.

Please don't let it happen to you. Talk to someone now, Parenting Support have helped me so much recently and I believe Women's Aid are also very good.

BikermicefromMars,

You may find the following difficult to read but I would urge you to read it all the same:-

The following describes an incident that could be an example of alcoholic behaviour, and some examples of reactions to the incident. Does any of these sound familiar?

The alcoholic comes home late and he is drunk, too drunk in fact to get the key into the front door lock. After several futile attempts, he decides that it is a lost cause. Since he does not want anyone in the house to know that he is too drunk to unlock his own door, he makes a brilliant decision that solves his problem. He goes to sleep in the front garden!

How would you react?

The Rescuer
The "rescuer" doesn't let the incident become a "problem." Since she has been waiting up for him anyway, she goes out in the yard, gets the alcoholic up, cleans him up, and puts him into bed. That way the neighbors never see him passed out in the flower bed!
She never mentions the incident to him or anybody else. If anyone else mentions it, she denies there is a problem. She lies for him, covers up for his mistakes, and protects him from the world.

As the problems increase and his drinking gets worse, she takes on responsibilities that were once his. She may get a job or work extra hours to pay the bills. And if he gets in trouble with the law, she will move heaven and earth to come up with his bail.

The Provoker
The "provoker" reacts by punishing the drunk for his actions. She either waits for him to wake up the next morning and gives it to him with both barrels, or she goes out and turns the water sprinklers on!
She scolds, ridicules, and belittles. She nags. She screams insults at him loud enough for everyone to hear. She gets on the telephone and tells all her friends he's a loser. She is angry and she makes sure that the alcoholic and everybody else knows it. Or she gives him the cold shoulder and doesn't speak to him. She threatens to leave.

She doesn't let it go, either. The anger and resentment continue to build as these incidents become more frequent. She never lets him forget his transgressions. She holds it against him and uses it as a weapon in future arguments -- even months or years later.

The Martyr
The "martyr" is ashamed of the alcoholic's behavior and she lets him know it by her actions or words. She cries and tells him, "You've embarrassed us again in front of the whole neighborhood!"
She sulks, pouts, and isolates. She gets on the telephone with her friends and tearfully describes the misery that he has caused her this time! Or she is so ashamed of it she avoids her friends and any mention of the incident.

Slowly she becomes more withdrawn and depressed. She may not say much about it to the alcoholic, but she lets him know with her actions that she is ashamed of him. Quietly she tries to make him feel guilty for his behaviour.

Doubtless you have been a mix of all of the above over the years.

Which is the Enabler?
The above examples may be somewhat of an exaggeration, but then again they may be very typical of what goes on in an alcoholic home. The "roles" the nonalcoholic spouse plays in the family may not be as well defined, as they are outlined here. Depending upon the circumstances, the spouse may fall into one of these roles, or may switch back and forth between them all.

So which of the spouses described above is an enabler? Which one is actually helping the alcoholic progress in his disease? Which one, although they are trying to make things better, are actually contributing to the problem?

All of them.

What is the longest period of time as well to your knowledge that he has stayed off alcohol?.

Oh OP this is a really awful situation and YADNBU.

If you look at your life, how much does he actually give you in support? A lot of people worry about how they will cope on their own if they take the massive step to leave their partner for whatever reason.

But actually you are already running the household on your own. Should you make the decision to leave him, you will be no worse off than you are now, you will be 100 times better off because you won't have this stress. Your DCs will know that you love and support them 100% (not that they don't know this now, but a lot of your headspace will be taken up with worrying about him and where he is).

He's not even paying his way OP.
He's actually costing you money by not even paying towards the bills.

Honestly, you are getting conned in every way possible.

Please don't tell me he EXPECTS sex.

He sounds awful. What he is doing is in no way reasonable or normal. I think what I would do is sit down and tell him calmly what you need to change and when you need it to he changed by. And if he can't do it, I think you should end this relationship. If you separate, he will at least look after the kids sometimes on contact days, won't he (assuming you can trust him to be sober)? You will get more help without him and you will not have to put up with someone treating you like shit. Good luck OP.

This is appalling OP. You seem to believe that you are essentially a slave.

That he's an alcoholic is only the half of it, he's horrifically selfish, lazy, entitled and exploitative.

Love = consideration. That he doesn't consider or respect you shows he does not love you.

What's in this for you?

I'm sorry you're living this way. There seems little point in confirming that he is in the wrong, or pointing out just how appalling his behaviour is. I'm not sure how you can reconcile 'he loves me' with the way he treats you
Because that's not love. And his children? I'm sure he loves them in some measure, but certainly not as a father should. He has never acted as a father, in so much as he absents himself by choice, never cares for them, never takes any responsibility for them and doesn't attempt to shape, teach and model the behaviour we all want our children to demonstrate. He is nothing but a negative influence in their lives, what memories will they have of their daddy as children? What will they say their family life was like? Will they respect him? Will they respect you? Will they consider his behaviour as normal and emulate it? Will they be embarrassed of Daddy? Will they know what a loving adult relationship is like having only seen this dysfunctional one? If you have a daughter will she accept shitty behaviour from her partner in the name of love and well it's not that bad? Will your son treat his partner as his Dad treats you? What good does he bring you? What good does he bring your DC?

I'm sorry you're going through all of that with everything else you have on.

My father was like this when we were small, it was misery for my mum and at times for us.

All I can say you will not change him. Don't waste your life on someone that doesn't give you the respect you truly deserve.