Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 27

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I think that makes sense, coach. Do you think it's possible for different DCs to have different levels of contact in the same family? Say, DD2 and DD3 come back on Sunday but DD1 stays till Wednesday (and goodness knows about DS at this stage - he's only 6 so I should make the decision for him, but he doesn't even know why he feels clingy and is soiling again).

i have got two Dc with overlapping, but also slightly different contact but they have different fathers, so maybe not comparable. It means I can spend one on one time with them as well.

Am really tired so will come back with a considered answer, but I think it may be about the individual needs of the child and meeting these, so flexibility there could be helpful. I'm guessing if DD1 is a bit older, then yes, she stay to Wed if that is what she wants, bring all the younger ones back on Sunday (DS, DD2 and DD3) - apart from anything else, they are then home for the start of a new school/nursery week. But whatever, contact needs to be consistent and not to his work schedule, it is about their needs. If it is two days one week and five the next, that is harder for the younger ones to understand because they don't know what to expect, I think.

Yes, I think you're right. I'm still struggling to stand up to anything he wants, but slowly I'll take steps in the right direction.

Thanks for posting when you should probably be sleeping!

Musing on what you said about being home for the start of the week... He wants his home to be their home just as much as mine is. Tbh, I don't know what they think. They talk about Mummy's home and Daddy's home, but I'm not sure they talk about their home. Hopefully, both places feel like home. They've not been here long, in my one, so Daddy's (being the old family home) probably still feels more familiar. But perhaps that makes it harder that I'm not there.

I need to get to bed, too!

Thanks for the hand-holding Charlotte. :) I hope you get a positive response to your email. I agree with coach that flexibility might be useful, I don't know the ages of your DC but with four of them I imagine their needs might be quite different.

I actually phoned FNF last night, in desperation I think. I was at a real low. I felt so totally alone with it all, as though despite being surrounded by supportive friends, family, my lawyer, a counsellor, that actually it really is just me and FW in some horrible torture chamber. Because there's no physical abuse I really struggle with wondering "how bad is it really?" and not knowing who to turn to for help. I am worried about my ability to cope at the moment, I am just so run down after a year of this, a year of hideousness, and of course now is the time we're about to enter the eye of the storm. He told me a few weeks ago that once we exchange Forms E, that will be the end of any goodwill. I am just so frightened of what it will contain. What has he done?

Having a talk with the lawyer this morning to discuss what to do re. the sold house. No response from them yesterday, despite us giving a deadline to do so. From my reading up on the subject, the drastic steps involve a freezing order, and that is so drastic it seems OTT.

Quietcoach - thank you for that, you are right. Ignoring him is the only thing which brings me peace. I am representing myself re. the children matter so might contact his lawyer today to say I want no more direct contact. It's just so distressing, every single email is an accusation of how I'm ruining his life and his relationship with the children - at the moment that's supposedly because of me getting the CSA involved.

Just want to rant. H threw my clothes all over the floor yesterday after I left for work. I've got another thread going about it but am just making a promise to myself to do something, anything! I didn't say anything about the clothes, just put them in another room. Bastard!

thats - what?? Crazy FW.

FW wants to wait till Sunday and see how DD2 feels then about contact. Hmmmm. I have said, OK, I'll pick her up from school on Monday unless I hear otherwise. That way, she has a clear expectation that she can come home on Monday as she goes into the contact. Not fair on her to have uncertainty over her head all weekend...

wondering whether that could set up unequalities between them and their view of their relationships with him, which should be seen to be fair? I would worry that her having more contact than others, could end up with him also givng more gifts/disney dad stuff, and it causing very strange dynamics with others seeing his favouritism and against DD1.

I've heard a lot from teachers about the effects of trying to over-share the residency, that trying to avoid even weekdays so that a complete quiet can and routine can reign over the week and use w/ends for contact. the police had said to this to me also That they do better and settle quicker with a more routine and structured approach especially when younger, and long spells without disruption [each weekdays]. Certainly for calming anxieties. If there's any suggestion that sleepovers might exacerbate they should be introduced later once things calmed down? Depends on what the DC view as the most challenging, weighing up the want to see him regularly/a lot, against the need for very good routine sleep and home life.

I suspect that I mightn't have refreshed before posting! andyou could already have loads of sound advice, if so, sorry!

make sure you are taking good are of you too in all this lovely xxx

yes, bastard FW Thats - i think also your thoughts are heading in the right direction.
I second what Charlotte has said Other.. your post really resonated with me, the attitudes underlying it from the FW.. You belong here all the time you feels its helping you, so keep posting. It can take a long time to clear the awful FOG that surrounds an abusive relationship for us.

Its all understood here tho, and can become a lot clearer to you .. take care.

I've just finished reading Bounty's thread on AIBU. She's left her husband and moved in with her parents with her DD.

Teeny

Insig that doesn't sound at all minor to me. As so many of us on here know, this kind of constant behaviour wears you out and erodes your sense of self. But if you try to articulate any specific issue it seems petty, and if you try to explain the constant low level irritition/frustration of it, people think the poor man can't do right for doing wrong

You've come to the right place.

Thanks, Fi, that is all helpful. None of it holds any weight with FW, of course, and I feel quite alone sorting it out with him, waiting for our first mediation session which won't be for another six weeks.

Don't ask me why it's that long - I'm just now wondering that myself.

You know, it's one thing making decisions with no support; it's quite another making decisions with someone telling you you're wrong and he should be allowed to take part in the decisions too, isn't it?

Anyway, finally going to tackle divorce paperwork this weekend. Yuk. But will be glad when I've done it.

Thanks, Teeny, wondered whether she was posting and if so, where.

A bit of FW's lengthy email in response to my naive one re-engaging (feeling a bit sorry for him because he can be soooo stupid and suggesting counselling because it would be so helpful if only he could listen!):

"it is tough at times that it seems that you can, or at least you feel you can, without any consultation with me, make decisions about my marital status, about where I live, about when I see the children, about where (and if) I work, about what I can and can’t afford to do, and so on. And meanwhile I have conceded to almost everything you’ve asked and have asked very little of you. I don’t particularly mind your being in control – I always thought you were and was quite comfortable with that – but I do hope that we can somehow find a way to make more of these decisions together. Hopefully too we can find ways to make sure that the children are all unusual, adventurous, gifted, thoughtful, engaged, extraordinary people."

Don't you almost feel sorry for him? The charmer... who wouldn't hurt a fly. Weirdo, though. You can see his priorities in what he wants for his DCs: "unusual", "extraordinary" - erm, happy? Nope. Priorities of a narcissist.

Thank you for responding admist your own woes.

sontoran... Yes yes. The low level grinding down and feeling it's not that important is what really drives me mad. Feeling saner for the kind replies. Thank you.

Floating please do not dread the Form E. If it's like my FW's, then it will give you all sorts of information about how he's thinking. It sounds like you have some idea of what his assets should be, so the assets he actually declares should be an interesting comparison. And you've got quite an idea of what and how he is up to. It won't look good to a judge - a Form E must be sworn as true, I think, so as I believe said upthread, misrepresenting his assets could be contempt.

It sounds strange, but I actually looked forward to his Form E. It is full of disprovable guff - but from so long ago that he thought I couldn't provide evidence to show it was baloney. (I did manage to track down evidence, though we settled without me having to present it in court).

I found out today that he is claiming the sold house was part of a "business partnership" with his father, along with another one. Funny that we declared it as part of our assets when applying for a mortgage in late 2011 then, that his name was the only name on the deeds, and that the mortgage was in his sole name hmm

Thanks Sontaran. I know what you mean. I know exactly what my FW is thinking (hi FW by the way, if you are reading!) - it's along these lines: "I am utterly poverty stricken and will spend the rest of my life blaming you for it and living on baked beans, just in order to prove a point". He is convinced that despite me effectively not living on much more other than benefits since he left and him having a six figure income, I am better off than he is and in fact I should be feeling sorry for him and not the other way around.

I have no idea how it works with the Form E really, other than we get to complete a Questionnaire after reading his one and then we go from there. I am starting to realise that although I'm dreading it, I'll be one step closer to getting away from him once we're through this particular barrier. One good thing is that he did confirm via his lawyer today that he does intend to see the children for the weekend. I tentatively mentioned it to them at bedtime tonight, hope he doesn't let them down again.

Charlotte - that email sounds so cold and distant, doesn't it? Almost like a letter from the 19th century. And I agree re. the choice of adjectives for his aspirations regarding the children - they just don't sit right.

I think I'm going to take myself off to bed very early tonight and maybe download something onto the Kindle.

Hope everyone is having as peaceful an evening as possible.

Excellent idea re the early night; I should really do that.

Contact stuff continues: so, they are now at his and he's sent an email telling me that DD2 and DD3 are already changing their minds about how long they want to stay, so he will see how they feel when the time comes.

To which I want to reply that DD3 especially is too young to make these decisions herself, DD2 also would find that responsibility very stressful, so we should be making the decision for them. By which I mean I should make the decision - and he's going to spot that. Actually, I have already made the decision and told them - he also won't like that.

Och, it is not only that they are too young, Charlotte,it puts them in a dreadful position of having to choose.
He is using them for power play with you, I think. And keeping everyone in a state of uncertainty, which is also narcissistic power play.
A schedule benefits everyone.

...except for him!

But yes, I see what you mean.

charlotte diving in. We are married to the same man. Hates routine? check. Wants 'fair share' of DC? check. Objects to you making decisions without him (unilaterally dictating in my FW speak)? check. Wants DC to be different and against the norm? check.

charlotte and bounty me too. Except that my FW likes me to make a decision then talk me out of MY decision and follow his.
Worst experience of this? I wanted to go to the beach, a really naff beach with penny slots and chips. I packed the car, paid petrol, sorted everything for our son. Whilst driving he spent the whole time moaning about my choice, then, at a roundabout he went the OPPOSITE way towards a 'gorge' he wanted to see. We spent an hour there, looking at people climbing. Our son crying as he was hungry, we had no food as I was going to get stuff there. I tell this story and he denies it. DENIES WHAT HAPPENED!!! Who has the audacity to do that? A FW that's who!

FW is away with the kids this weekend. After being 'unsure' when he was taking them away. Smirking as this 'unsure-ness' upset me ( I like plans, I can't deal with maybe's or whenever's, he knows this) I cried for the first time in weeks, wondering why someone would want to hurt someone else. When talking about DS's behaviour at the moment, he said "won't you let me talk, you talk over me" I (stupidly in his eyes) brought up statement he made about how "during a discussion people should be allowed to chip in their point whenever they want even if it means interrupting people as it keeps the flow of the debate alive like in the house of commons" I mentioned this and he said "why do you have to bring up the past? what is the benefit" The benefit is it shows what a MASSIVE HYPOCRITE!!!
Love and strength to you all, we can do this.

Just wanted to come and post having seen bounty's update. Sending you love and strength awesome lady.

I am feeling amazing. Been a crap few weeks as missed FW so much it has hurt. It was his birthday this week and I felt crap most of the day through missing him. Then realised what id missed was his temper tantrum about my efforts not being good enough and that the last two years he has not allowed me to go out on his birthday as they were boys nights (fine) yet awash with girls [hmmm] but bullied me for money to fund it. Reading all this Nigella stuff has sorted my mindset. Saatchi is a textbook FW!

Today I'm on a jolly with my mates. No FW making me leave him money or having a tantrum at me doing something without him. Bliss!