what has MIL said to DD to make DD doubt me and how I can repair the damage

[namechangedforthis45]

Long back story, short cut is, DD see's MIL for much shorter time, fewer times a year than before. On the previous to last visit, DD asked why I do not go to MILS house, I have not been since she was born and now she is 6 she is realising i do not go there. DH said to her its because MIL doesnt like me.

DD must have told MIl this and MIl said: " Thats not true".

It IS true, but I am not surprised she said it wasnt true to DD.

However, DD saw her recently, and before she went I said to DD who hates being questioned, to tell MIL she is tired if she asks her loads of questions.

She was there with MIL for about three hours and when she came back, I siad " DidMIL ask you any questions."

DD flew at me and said " YOu don't know everything you know, your not always right". She was then very distant and off with me, then and a few days after.

Since then ( this was about 2 months ago) DD is more normal with me, but sometimes she looks at me as though she is in deep thought and when I say things she says " YOu know nothing" in an almost disgusted way.

I am just wondering what on earth that woman has said to her, I feel that whatever it is - she has undermined me, and made my DD doubt me.

How can I get back from this?

Atilla

Relate gave us some excellent advice and as a couple we were able to work on that and things became easier. It was just a few years too late.

The HV should not have given us advice herself, she should have pointed us to Relate.

We are up against a very hard and rigid immoveable personality and a very tough emotionless man backing her up. I am not a push over, I can stand up for myself, I however find it hard with my in laws because they do not seem to have normal emotions.

They have a goal, and they will do anything to have that goal, and that goal is my DD.

I think you are being massively unfair to your dd. Of course in an ideal world children would have close relationships with loving grandparents, but in reality you have to do the best with what you're given

If your husband doesn't want to draw his own line in the sand and give into the pressure they put him under that is his decision but at least one of you needs to start protecting your daughter

What activities does your DD like to do? I would then invite the PIL to partake in those activities with your family (DH, DD and you). If your MIL is inappropriate your DH can handle her.

I have a much better relationship with my MIL now we have children and live 3000 miles apart but the above technique worked like magic in getting DH to stand up to his mother.

I don't say this lightly, but stop the contacts. The whole thing is very worrying. Protect your daughter from PILs' manipulation, seriously.

Stop contact for your DD with MIL and FIL. If your DH wants to see his other extended family, then he goes on his own. If they want to see DD, they can come to you. If they won't come, then they don't want to see DD really, no matter what they say, if they refuse to come to your house they are lying about wanting to see her. Repeat that regularly to your DH when they are trying to manipulate him. He can go see them and then invite other family to yours to see DD. If they do'nt, then they don't want to see her.

That, along with spending lots of time with your DD will help 'undo' the damage.

I have no contact with my mother - and until they are 16 I will protect them (and longer if they want) from her poison.

I hadn't seen her for 7 years (or talked for 8 - last time we saw each other was my Gran's funeral where I was comprehensively blanked) until last week, when my brother got married.

She didn't talk to me, and also blanked my dh (for some reason she really hates him, told other people he's "bad" to me, while he's actually the most loving, gentle, supportive man I've ever known) and the dc. Dd1 (13) decided to go over and say hello. My mother engaged in quite superficial conversation with her (dd1 thought she wasn't really interested) and that lasted until the next dance.

After that, no way will I be letting her get anywhere close to us, luckily she doesn't have our address or phone number. And my job as a mum is to protect them.

"We are up against a very hard and rigid immoveable personality and a very tough emotionless man backing her up. I am not a push over, I can stand up for myself, I however find it hard with my in laws because they do not seem to have normal emotions"

That's because they actually do not have normal emotions. Normally healthy people do not behave as your ILs have done; people who have disordered personalities an are at heart abusive (you did not make them this way) act as your ILs have. People like your ILs do not change.

You likely have come from a family yourself where this type of dysfunction is thankfully completely unknown to you. That makes it difficult but you really need to see properly what is happening in front of you now.

You say you believe in giving people a chance; that stance has cost you and now your DD very highly. They've had enough chances; cut all contact with them now for your DDs sake. What is the point of her actually seeing these people at all and for any length of time?.

"People can change, people do relax with their GC like they didnt with their own DC, I know a few people who had violent drunks as fathers who have grown old and who have changed"

Why do you persist in thinking that they will change?.

You would not leave your child in the care of a previously violent drunk so your anology is flawed anyway.

Their behaviour towards you has not altered so why would they behave any differently around your child?. It also sounds like your MIL has been putting words into your child's mouth.

Abusive at heart people like your ILs do not change.

Hi namechangedforthis45
"I am not a heartless bitch...."
You know you are not a heartless bitch,
Your dh knows you are not a heartless bitch, and
Your dd knows you are not a heartless bitch.

Imho it does not matter what anyone else thinks
(and I don't think you are a heartless bitch either).

This was a hurdle for me in going no contact in my circumstances because I felt like I was being a heartless bitch. My counsellor said that I was not kicking my sister to the curb, I was making a boundary based on her behavior to protect myself.

You , as an adult, made the choice to create the boundary for yourself years ago. Your dd is not old enough to understand the dynamics to make an informed decision, or bold enough to stand up to her grandma-and defend you...she does not have the capability to have a choice here. This is why, imho, you need to step in as her parent, and make the boundary for her. She can not do it herself. She won't know it now, or for many years, but this is an important point of parenting in guidance and nurturing that she needs.

Also, what Dahlen, and Atilla said.

Also, did you write that your dh and dd go off on the important occasions, Christmas, and leave you alone? This is not right and hopefully you can manifest change with that too.

Reclaim Christmas as a time for you dd and dh.

She won't change, why should she? She manipulates the entire family into doing what she wants (visit arrangements being changed to hers all the time).

Stop the visits now your MIL is emotionally abusing your dd and by not stopping it you are colluding and lending credence to whatever poison she drips in your daughters ear.

If the rest of the family are too spineless to visit you then invite them to a neutral place for dinner minus mil. If they still won't then they are the ones willingly forgoing a relationship with your family so you may have to accept that whilst queen bee is alive or they refuse to do anything without her it will be just the 3 of you. You can keep in touch other ways that don't involve mil and that could soften the blow or give them the push to do what they want and not what she wants.

This is not a misunderstanding mil doesn't like you or her own son b her own admission the odds are she doesn't particularly like your dd either but she can't resist trying to control the situation by demanding visitation and using it as an excuse to try to destroy your family by dripping poison in dd's ear. If she succeeds do you think she would let dd live with her, I doubt it. She just wants you all to be miserable at worst at best she thrives on the drama and is too wrapped up in herself to care about the consequences ( you can bet your life she can see them though).

Ok, I'll qualify it, namechanged.

You said your DD was wanting to know why you don't see your MIL and you told her that MIL doesn't like you. That comment is manipulating your DD and putting a huge burden on her - and quite clearly it backfired because she couldn't help but relate this to her grandmother and ended up confused and upset by the response. You put the burden of the nature of the relationship between you and your MIL on your 6 year old daughter's shoulders.

It would have been sufficient to simply state that you don't get on. That is still factual but far less emotionally loaded than sending your DD to see her grandmother having been told that your falling out is all because of her. That grandmother your DD is wanting to spend time with.

So was there any wonder she was upset.

So, if you want to repair the relationship between you and your DD, you need to refrain from burdening her with your baggage. It doesn't matter whether the estrangement is 100% MIL's fault or 100% yours. You should never expect a 6 year old to have to process that.

And of course, none of this counteracts the advice you've had about it being best to cut contact, full stop. It's just that the thing that stood out for me was that you appeared to be doing some of the exact things that your MIL does and expecting your DD to handle the pressure.

Ouryve - it was OP's husband that told their daughter that MIL didn't like the OP.

OP what you're describing is very close to my own experiences. I will namechange and come back to this thread later.

Can only echo what Attila is saying, their advice saved my sanity (and continues to do so).

How are you today OP?

Please have a look at the link below. The last three paragraphs are particularly resonant I think (for us both).

narcissistschild.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/the-scapegoats-daughter.html?m=1

Hope you can keep being strong.

Atilla

Thanks for all your thoughts. I am also from very dysfunctional background, interestingly for me, on paper probably lots more so than DH but we had lots of arguing in our family, sometimes spirraling into violence.

Dh family however never seem to loose their tempers. Initially I thought this meant that they were a fabulous normal family.

Years down the line I see the suppression of emotion, the secrets etc as chilling.

Both DH and I have had lots of nasty things happen to us before we met and sorry to sound cheesy but we had found such joy with each other, but there is a constant ever present cloud there, only 7 miles away.

Also, whilst my DSIS didn't really get on with my DM, my DB does not get on with my DF BUT, and the BIG BUT here is that, my DF leaves my DB alone.

my df has a GC he does not see, and he would never ever dream of contanslty going to DB house or emailing, texting etc to try to force him to do something.,

Its this level of trying to control what DH does that I have found startling, FIL cannot take no for an answer.

In the past he has asked a favour off DH at a family do, Dh said, very sorry but no. Cue phone calls, I Need you to do this for me. Mil brought DH a suit and DH said thanks, but I have one already, CUE, "Come and get your mothers suit, this is not normal behaviour, its normal to buy your son a suit for a function, come and get it". Over and over and over again.

Its this pressure, this pushing that I cannot bear. I am aware and have quite a few dysfunctional people in my family but I have never heard of or experienced this level of pushing?

Dh has acknowledged he does not deal with them as well as he could, but he is trying. He does tend towards depression, so I have to be careful to avoid that.

ourvye

Ok got you, thanks for explaining.

It was my DH by the way who said it. And DD is'nt mad wild about going to grannys anyway.

Thehighcost thanks for that link,

very very interesting and worrying too.

I know for a fact my MIL spends lots of her time crying about her son( my DH) and his problems, and feeling very sorry for herself.

I would not be surprised if she also cried infront of DD.

DH has acknowledged this crying in the past as manipulative behaviour.

I have to point out though that we have managed from several times a month to drop it right down to a few times a year and for much shorter.

I have no plans to let DD go there at any point over xmas, and not for the forseeable future. But we will be under instense pressure to get DD to go there.

I am dreading xmas, we will have to park the car round the corner and go into hiding, which makes me cross as we should not have too!

If FIL knocks on my door this year to start the pushing, I cannot be responsible for my actions. .

I think your DH should have a chat with your DD to find out what your MIL said. Children can really bottle stuff up and since it was clearly about you, she probably won't want to discuss it with you. But she needs to feel that she can tell someone and he can clear it up for her.

That might also allow you to make a clear decision about contact, if you know what your MIL said it might make the decision easier.

Oh dear, I remember your previous thread about the suit.

You do realise that they are master manipulators, which you cannot match, and they will make things worse for you with your DD.

Right now it will be easier to put a stop to than it ever will be again.

Protect your family - protect the relationship that you have with your DD. You need to do this NOW, and not when she's a stroppy teen, it will be way too late then.

breathe it was a while ago now. Whether she would remember specifically what MIL said I do not know.

But that fact she has said something also concerns me, as I feel MIL has made DD doubt me. and thats horrible for DC who think they can rely on you.

I will ask DH though ask in a casual way.

I do not want to talk to DD about DMIL too much either.

DIY This is what I am trying to do, ease towards this.

BTW the voice of FIL isn't warm and friendly on these messages, amiable and diplomatic, its cold and hard, and full of white heat......

But you can't 'ease' towards something like that. Not with people like this!!!!

If she has said something significant then your DD will remember. If it was significant enough to influence her behaviour towards you then she wil remember.

With my DH, ease is all I can do.

As said we have made lots of progress over the years.

ouvrey I have been thinking about what you said and I do not see saying " they do not get on" as any better than saying one doesn't like the other. Its also not truthful.
I think just saying something bland and nutral about needing a walk or something would have been much better.