Emotional Abuse - what was your tipping point?

[Stuckunderababy]

Hi,long time lurker, first time poster.

I don't want to go in to the detail of my relationship on here, it would take too long, but suffice to say we've been together a long time, and have two small children. I love him very much and he's a great dad. When it's great it's great, when it's bad it's horrible.

He is verbally and emotionally abusive and quite controlling. He admits he has an issue, wants to change, will seek help etc, but hasn't as yet.

We've been trying to work through our issues and while I to the most part have stuck to my side, his (to get counselling) has not yet been touched. While I've stuck to my side (mostly to do with being better organised domestically, some of which I think he had fair comment about although not in the way he chooses to comment iyswim) things have been a lot better. Not great but better.

But today after a few days of bad illness when things have slipped at home I've had it with both barrels again. There's too much detail to go into, including issues with my family that we both have but I don't confront for a variety of reasons but suffice to say I feel like I have suddenly realised this won't ever change. I don't want that life for me, as much as I love him, but I don't want to break my kids away from their dad.

Can it ever change? We used to be so great together. And I guess I wanted to know, for those that have left an EA relationship, what was the tipping point for you?

Feel like my heart is breaking and I have no where to turn.

oh, OP you do have somewhere to turn - here - I didn't have Mumsnet because I wasn't allowed access to the internet.

Agree with Cogito tipping points are incredibly personal. Sounds like a tipping point right there in the OP. I think the biggest thing about the tipping point is it moves you on from feeling stressed/panicked/confused to thinking about small practical steps in your mind. Stick around OP and please tell someone IRL. Get as much support as possible.

Realising that he wouldn't change

And that if I stayed I would always be miserable.

I didn't want my daughters to think it was OK/normal to live in that kind of environment.

One of my tipping points was quite practical. My STBXH wasn't controlling or verbally abusive - but he did sleep with prostitutes.
I wanted out, but had a child and some job complications that made it harder.
I had looked at houses, mortgages, deposit... One day I realised that if I got made redundant (not on cards, but never guaranteed not to be) then my "some day" plan would be fucked. Even if I could afford mortgage, I may not get one.

I realised how desperate I would feel if my preferred options were closed down.

I am so much happier now. Good luck, OP x

Just to add - it wasn't a tipping point, more an alignment of planets.
I'd focused on both of us saving / over paying mortgage for a while, so we had more options re housing at that point.
I was in flirty contact with an ex and I didn't want to be that person - partly morally didn't want an affair, but also I knew that an affair was basically another shit relationship
My daughter was about to start school so I felt I had a reason to stay locally - a big part of not leaving was that I had been certain I'd move 200 miles, and I thought that was wrong for her.
I found some more concrete evidence of his prostitute usage and I thought it would be easier to go now, with current evidence (I was in the cusp, had nearly done it a month earlier, but having that to throw at him has been useful in getting him to agree to child arrangements that I want, etc)
Daughter old enough that I felt her relationship with him was strong enough to become part time, but young enough that divorce wouldn't be emotional for her.
Again daughter's age - I used to cry that I was modelling a relationship for her with no laughter, touching, kissing, bed sharing, affection, love, kindness...
And on top of that, I just got more and more miserable.

When I realised I could think of nothing to say that wouldn't start an argument, due to years of treading on egg shells.

And also having arguments about the fact I was hardly saying anything, and not being able to tell him why, as it would start an argument.

I'm usually an extrovert, but felt panicked and mute.

Loads of other stuff but that's what springs to mind.

OP just be careful... You can read everyone else's stories and say 'ah at least my H hasn't done that...' It's so easy to minimise.
But one thing is common - they don't change as it's the say they think. It does come in cycles which fools you.

Please don't stay together for the sake of the kids, it's an awful lesson for them in what's acceptable.

when I very dramatically was handed the evidence that he had deliberately done something very wrong, put mine and my kids future in serious jeopardy and forged evidence to cover it up.

When I realised I had been "programmed" to accept what he said as gospel truth over the evidence of my own brain and senses.

When he shouted at the dog and ds2 burst into tears. It suddenly hit me that whilst I thought I was protecting them from his anger, they were not only aware of it, they were subject to it.

Unfortunately I still thought it was a symptom of his depression and so he would get better, so spent a further few years trying to fix things. He moved out and back in again several times.

One day I realised he wasn't depressed. He was treating us all much better but wouldn't discuss how things had been.

When I said, "I'm not happy", and he said, "well, I am", and I thought, "I could never be happy if the person I loved wasn't".

It was never depression that made him do what he did to me.

No matter what other people's tipping points are yours is different and just as valid

^^^^^^^^
I really wish my tipping point had been less. Looking back there are a hundred and one things that I can see should have been my tipping point.

The tipping point will always be that moment when you realise despite what you have been told it is not you or whatever he has blamed it on, it is him.

Thank you so much for all your posts. I couldn't face posting again last night but many of you have already picked up on some of my thoughts - that he's no where near like some of you have so horribly experienced on here. He's often loving, so much fun, generous and kind. And yet he came back up last night to tell me he will now decide when I can use our new (family) car again as I obviously can't be trusted to keep it tidy (having been too ill to have done it and I should have asked my mum to do it when she was here helping me with the kids.) He then came to bed all normal but did take the car to work (we do have two). I just watched him go and thought how fucked up is this?! When did my life and relationship become this - where I, a confident, sociable outgoing person, is being dictated to like this?

And yes, it was probably always a little bit there but it has escalated since dc1 was born. But at the same time he's also had some major life stresses thrown his way that I know he needs to work through. I know (I think) he genuinely loves me and he realises later that what he is doing is wrong and needs help. But I can't do that for him and I don't know how to make him do it.

I seriously have considered going away with the kids for a few days while he is at work today, but then I have to question why I am doing it? Is it really to clear my head? Is it to make a big gesture not to fuck me about as I can regain control in the hope it shocks him into making changes? And if so what if it didn't work?

I don't know if I am ready to walk. I can parent and manage financially on my own but this is never what I wanted for me or my kids. But then the thought of this cycle repeating for the next 20 years makes me feel sick.

I am thinking about writing a proper letter to him as I find it so hard to make my point clearly when we talk. I just don't know what to do. He's hurt me so much and I keep coming back to the fact that you simply don't willingly hurt people you love.

Oh god and I've just remembered. He also threatened to send my mum a horrible text to 'teach me a lesson' about not confronting her about certain issues (these are not entirely unfounded but I find it hard to challenge her about certain things as they are sensitive and she is emotionally quite fragile). I need to deal with my mum issues separately but it's the use of language like that, that when I see it in black and white I just think wow. That's not good.

My ex was a drinker, but controlling when sober. For me, the tipping point was the night we took our 3rd born DS home from hospital, and he stayed up all night drinking, and I found him comatose on the kitchen floor. Then I got seriously depressed, but sought help and got counselling etc. This allowed me to process that my depression was due to my shit life, with him. I didn't want my children to grow up thinking our relationship was the norm.
I left him 6 months later. Then went back, tipping point no 2 was him shouting at our 4yo son at bedtime, when he was restless "Shut up you little shithouse". Hearing that made me feel physically sick. We all left the next day, that was over 2 years ago.
OP I always said I would never make threats unless I was prepared to carry them out. If you are posting here, I suspect you have had. Tipping point. Gather your strength, here and in RL, to do what's best for you and your family x

I'm sorry love, a letter might help you to formulate your thoughts, but it won't change things.

I was kind of watching your update and half felt like posting to say to keep the champagne corked, cos there was no sign of this being definitely resolved, and sadly, very sadly I was right to be so cynical.

This won't get any better love, only worse.

Walking is the only option. He won't even start to take you seriously unless you show that level of conviction and détermination to insist on decent and fair treatment.

I don't think there's much chance of him changing, he's going to go on to get worsee, and more and more emotionally abusive I think.

This is the start of him and his true colours, I think you're on a hiding to nothing if you stay with him.

(((hug)))

"the thought of this cycle repeating for the next 20 years"

exactly.

you can hang on and wait and stay "for the dc" but why wait?

why stick with this nice/nasty person now?
(myeexp was awful, he also had severe mh episode became violent - then i saw a counsellor...i talked about how clearly we would not grow old together as i did so many things "wrong" which he constantly criticised...she posed that question "why wait ? why stay together now?" i was a lightbulb moment that i had a choice...

he can be a "great father" to them separately.

and remember the cycle of abuse diagram - the nice/nasty circle.... bulies arent nasty 100 per cent of the time.

www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/cycle_of_abuse.html and the abuse can be that nasty snide remark (follwoed by but of course i love you) . it doesnt have to be violence.

For me it was when I found out she'd started threatening third parties. And their children. Made me realise that all of the 'cut that out or I leave' hadn't made her change her ways, it had made her sneaky about it.

Stuck, what you say about being shocked at what everyone else says and thinking your situation isn't as bad is true of every single one of us

I read what your dh said about the car and thought "wow, my XH would never have said that". They're all different. And they all have something that makes us stay.

It's never all bad. We could have such a laugh together, lovely days out, great conversations. But there was a price, there were conditions.

I always thought "if only he could always be the real him, this great bloke". What it took me ages to realise was that he wasn't a great guy who had bad days, he was both those people. In my head I almost had them separated into lovely h and arse h. I just had to get rid of arse h so that lovely h could stay. But they were both him. And when put together lovely h doesn't exist.

I now have a lovely h who is never an arse. We have all the good bits and none of the bad bits. Something I thought was a myth (a relationship that wasn't "work"), it turns out is real.

Don't waste your life. I wish I could have my 13 Years back.

Just to clarify, my lovely h is not my XH :) I left him and never once regretted it.

I find that most, if not all, abusive men are lovely when they're not being abusive. If they were monsters all the time, no-one would ever give them house-room. Their tactics may vary and the severity may vary but the intermittent charm/niceness is a fairly common thread.

Never mistake the cessation of abuse for kindness. Good luck whatever you decide to to do.

I have to say my ex was very nice WHILE he was persuading me I was stupid useless and incompetent, I was also frequently "rewarded" with nice things, which is what made it so hard for me to spot.

He was never outwardly unpleasant until I'd walked out the door.

Sorry to say, but the 'Nice' bloke is not real, it's who he wants the outsiders to see, and actually that further weakens any support you'd get from others.

The Nice as AS part of the abuse as the nasty. The longer it goes on, the less and less you see of the Nice.

You'll only see that when They want You to do something for THEM.

It's ALL about them, never ever about us/the kids.

If you read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft, it'll all be so much easier to understand.

Stuck, what horrifiés you about the stories you read here from others doesn't horrify them, to them that was/is their normal.

Your normal horrifiés US but not you, because that's YOUR normal.

Just because our normals are OUR normals, doesn't make those normals right.

This phenomenon is very common. It's called normalisation, and minimisation, often denial is an accompaniment.

Keep talking all this out, we all know this is a massive shock to you, but please don't ever blame yourself for any of this? It really wasn't/isn't you.

Ok?

I think those few days away would do you and the kids the power of good!

You'll start to see them blossom without the strain of an abuser in their environment in a matter of hours.

You have to get them away from this dynamic. If you do nothing else, do this. You'll be saving them from a lifetime of hurt/self doubt/victimhood or worse.

grrr... won't go into the details but this triggers memories of trying to explain to a social worker why there were never good times in the marriage because the good times were my reward for being a good little wife, hence they aren't really good times.

But how do you make the split when you ultimately love them? How do you find the strength? We had a huge blow out about 6 weeks ago. I thought he was leaving me for about a week. I won't go into detail as don't want to out myself IRL but when he'd calmed down and 'took everything back' I was so pathetically grateful that I accepted it and his promises to change. But now I am angry with myself for not being stronger and him for not keeping his promises (is too busy with work to see a counsellor yet can take an afternoon off to meet friends in town for a night out...)

And I don't want to leave my house. I ultimately want him to move out for a few weeks so I can clear my head and decide what to do next. He has places to go but what if he won't? I don't have anywhere I can go with the kids and I don't want to unsettle them any more than they will be anyway.