Toxic MIL

[MommyBird]

Im drainned.
i cant do it anymore and my husband feels the same. alot of things have happened and ive posted a few times looking for advice.

A family friend has had a word with my 82 year old nan as my mil had told this family friend im bulimic ( im not btw!) my poor nan and this friend was so worried, she rang my dad in a state who had a word with me..
Turns out my mil has been lying and making up things to everyone about me, her son and making out she is an amazing nan. she is not. she is awful. my husband is fuming.

I have told my husband i cannot do this anymore. ive had PND and anxiety, ive seen a counseller and been on anti d's. ive put with her for years. so much has happened and shes done so much. i dont really want to go into it.

She is supposed to be coming down next week. i cant be nice/calm to her face anymore. i dont want anything to do with her and i dont want my daughters (4+7 weeks) to be around her.
She brings nothing but stress and negativity into our lives.

I dont want to get this family friend into trouble and mil knowing she has told us what she's been saying.
We just want to tell her not to bother coming down.

Any advice on what to say would be really helpful. sorry if its so vauge or if it doesnt make much sense. im just drainned.
Thank you (:

[MommyBird]

2nd Update!

We have messaged. Told her we think its not best not come down for a while..etcetc.

She then messaged back asking why we hate her. we explained we have had enough etc and just to leave it for now, so much had happened, itd not something to talk about text and we can talk about it face to face once we, as a couple have talked more about it.

She then texted back saying she needs to know why we hate her so much after all shes dealing with at the moment.

DH then got pretty ratty, explained that i had PND, had to see a counseller, smoking around dd and making her ill, how that made my pnd worse, not to mention our dd being ill, how she never accepts any responserbility, everything is our fault, never says sorry. that he didnt want to talk about anymore and to leave it for a while and we'll try and sort it all out in a few months..

And then FIL texted..saying how upset MIL is that her only son hates her, that she cant see her grandchildren (havnt seen them in 7 weeks btw) and shes worried about her results from the doctors..

DH then texted back with 'this is why we didnt want to talk about it, we wanted to leave it untill we had discussed it, they never listen, how we have explained how extreme it had got in the last text and its been ignored'

no reply.

How/what do we do now? What will happen next?
How to respond?
Im betting on her being seriously ill.
DH betting a phone call or visit from FIL.

I know we should of kept it really blunt and there was no point in explaining anything as she would'nt listen.
But it feels like we have gotten our point across.


Help!

[marriednotdead]

Hi,

I've just read the entire thread.

Don't respond now, your DP has said it all.
If she didn't like the answers, tough. She pushed for them. Ignore her DH too, he's enabling her bullshit so he's therefore (unwittingly?) on the same team.

What will happen next? She will tell your hairdresser anyone who will listen that you have turned against her while she's dying of some terrible disease. Oh, and that you're obviously not right in your head

Detach, detach, detach.

[FiveExclamations]

Whatever she does next, you could ignore and present a wall of silence, perhaps with one "We've explained our side and what we want to do, there's no point in explaining again." Or you could, as a couple, make a "script" to deal with her.

For example,

You told people I have Bullimia, you know that's not true.

You have lied on other occasions, (pick an example).

You wont compromise on visits. Then blame us for not seeing the children.

You show no respect for our wishes, for example you smoked around our child and have never shown the slightest remorse.

Add more if you need to one, one problem, one example.

The above upsets us, makes it impossible for us to trust you and has affected our health and happiness (or whatever is true). So we don't want to see you for a while.

If she rants, blackmails, denies, keep repeating the script, calmly, but firmly and when you've had enough or feel you are loosing the ability to be calm say something like, "I'm sorry, but we've made ourselves very clear. When we are ready we will make contact and we'll see if we can sort this out together then."

Say the same to your FIL if you need to, but perhaps more gently.

Stay calm however much they jump up and down.

Refuse to engage in text/facebook ping pong.

Either explain same to any friends/family who want to interfere or be nosy or say "sorry, there's a lot going on here that you don't know about and we've had to do what's best for us." Then refuse to be drawn any further.

Your real friends/family worth the title will understand.

[FiveExclamations]

Sorry, forgot to say the really important thing is to stick to the script, don't be dragged into side issues, having a debate over the details and explaining yourself, "sorry, this has nothing to do with these issues/ we've all ready explained, as we said..." and then return to script.

[MommyBird]

That's really helpful thank you.
We didn't want to discuss any of it over a text message but she just kept pushing and pushing. When we gave her the answers she wanted she didnt like it, didnt even say sorry or answer the text as she knew we was right.
Then FIL just bought it all back to how bad MIL was. Never even mentioned the previous message.

The only thing she can do is say sorry and accept responserbility if she wants to see us again.
Not holding my breath.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Mommybird

Your DHs parents are following the toxic parent script of behaviours to the letter. Your FILs role in this is one of bystander; he acts out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. Women like his wife always but always need a willing enabler to help them.

You will never receive any sort of apology from them because such toxic people never apologise or accept any responsibility for their actions.

These people do not bring anything positive into your lives anyway; not seeing them would therefore not be a great loss. Also your children deserve decent role models; DHs parents clearly are neither kind or loving either.

Do read the Susan Forward books that have been already recommended to you by other respondents.

[MommyBird]

Im waiting for it to be delivered

Deep down I know. I know she will never change. This will be her last and only change. atleast we can honestly say 'we tried.'

We was going to cut her off completley, without a doubt. Then i feel sorry for my husband loosing a mom and my kids loosing a set of grand parents...even though they are god awful. I just wish they would change. I never imagined my family to be like this.
Its such a shame.

i just need a good slap Asking for advice has really helped me understand people like her. I know its not us that are being nasty/mean/unreasonable. All we have done is tolerated it for so long and we cant do it anymore.

[Walkacrossthesand]

Well done for you and DH making a stand, Mommybird. Brace yourselves for the fall-out mentioned above - hearing that you've been bad-mouthed, having well-meaning friends/relatives sent round come round to try to talk you round - have responses ready. Oh, and I doubt her non-response to your texts was because she 'knew you were right' - that simply isn't a concept in her mindset, it's more that she dismisses anything that doesn't fit with her world view, and comes at it from a different angle.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

You will likely now receive comments from the "winged monkeys" i.e other relatives sent out by PILs to do their bidding. Ignore such people.

If these people are too toxic or difficult for you to deal with, then they are too toxic for your children to have any sort of contact with.

You have yourself likely come from a family unit where this type of familial dysfunction is completely unknown. Its hard to deal with, fortunately for yourself your DH is on board here.

They were and remain not good parents to your DH and they are not good grandparents to your children now. They do not need such poor role models in their lives.

From lightshouse.org:-

"A percentage of the general population is dysfunctional and/or abusive. That percentage, like everyone else, has children. Then those children grow and have children of their own. The not-so-loving grandparents expect to have a relationship with their grandchildren. The only problem is, they’re not good grandparents.

Many adult children of toxic parents feel torn between their parents’ (and society’s) expectation that grandparents will have access to their grandkids, and their own unfortunate first hand knowledge that their parents are emotionally/physically/sexually abusive, or just plain too difficult to have any kind of healthy relationship with.

The children’s parents may allow the grandparents to begin a relationship with their children, hoping that things will be different this time, that their parents have really changed, and that their children will be emotionally and physically safer than they themselves were.

Unfortunately, this is rarely the case, because most abusive people have mental disorders of one kind or another, and many of these disorders are lifelong and not highly treatable. (Others are lifelong and treatable; however, many people never seek the necessary help.)

The well-intentioned parent ends up feeling mortified for having done more harm than good by hoping things would somehow be different — instead of having a child who simply never knew their grandparents and who was never mistreated, they have an abused child who is now also being torn apart by the grief involved in having to sever a lifelong relationship with the unhealthy people they are very attached to".



lightshouse.org/lights-blog/toxic-bad-abusive-grandparents#ixzz2hJM8pbkI

[Meerka]

I'm with Fiveexclamations, Walkacross and Attilla. Keep your distance. Expect nastiness from people she's hoodwinked. Expect no support from your FIL.

I'm afraid it's a shame that you let her bludgeon and pressure you into answering her "why do you hate me" (see how she's twisting no-contact into victimization?). Answering then was on -her- terms and she'll use it more because you were not able to hold your ground. If you can, I'd never let yourselves get drawn into that again. If you choose to meet her or talk to her again, it has to be at a time of your choosing and in your way. Having said that, its clear there is many years' background here, and also it's so difficult to stand firm against an insidious person like this, so overall I think you and your husband are doing really, really well.

Just keep talking to your husband and keep those limits drawn =) ... and plan how to deal with the lies she will put about. Because she will. She has before, she will again, more so now you've stood up to her. It is very very upsetting to hear lies and twisted things from neighbours / family when you have someone spreading sh*t like this. Prepare for it. Maybe speak to your own mother and father and warn them.

Just to say again, I do think you are doing very well to stand up to her.

[MommyBird]

Winged Monkeys! haha!

I reallly didnt want to explain things over text, we just wanted to leave it at that...but her pushing and pushing just..argh! Its so stressful.
We will remember to not get sucked in. Will it be best to use 'we don't want to discuss it, just leave it' ?
As we really dont want to talk about it! We need space.

My husbsnd just keeps telling me to leave them too it and not to stress. we have explained a few points and there will still no consideration for us. just her.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Any further response from you, even on the lines of, " we don't want to discuss it, just leave it" further sucks you back in. That is something you could possibly say to "normal emotionally healthy" familial relations but never these two. Toxic people do not and never do play by the "normal" rules governing familial relations. FIL will always side with his wife for the reasons I stated. He is also a weak man.

Your H is right re telling you to leave it and not to stress further.
Complete silence from you both is now necessary. You need space away from such toxic people.

[MommyBird]

Ignore, Ignore, Ignore is something ive wanted to do for years. so glad i can do it now.
Husband has just sent a soppy text.
Feel alot more positive now.

Actually feel in control now.
In my counselling i was given tips on how to be assertive..i should of just posted on mumsnet
Thank you

[Hopasholic]

I'd be very interested to know if your Sfil has attended these doctors appointments with her, she's lying to him too. Actually she's right she does have a chemical imbalance going on in her brain. It's called
Toxicbitchsyndrome

Do you think that she's gone with 'Bulimia' rather than telling the truth about PND to explain your weightloss to the beautician? Not making excuses as its a very bizarre thing to say but maybe on this occasion she flapped when asked about it and gave it as reason?

I can't believe she's my age

[MommyBird]

Also my parents know exactly what she is like. They have seen it. They have helped out a few times regarding her garden and dd1. Never any thank yous.
They have tolerated her for the same reason i have, she is my DH's mom.

They are very happy that we have cut contact my mother is over the moon as they saw how ill it was making me and dh.

[MommyBird]

I dont think the PND even came into her head as she never listens. ever. I dont even think she knew (even though we told her) no one else can be ill as it draws the attention away from her. shes ill, we all know it, anyone else..meh.

'she's bulimic, she's just too skinny'
is what was said..or along those lines.
Family friend deffended saying she had known me for years and there was no way i'd have an eating disorder. no comment was made.

[MommyBird]

What i dont understand is, i'd not long had my dd2 (she's now 8 weeks) and i was about 10 stone. that isnt bulimic.
I was a size 6 when i fell pregnant with dd2..so i wasnt even a size 6 when MIL was telling people i was bulimic. i'd just had a baby

The bulimic thing was the last straw.

[Meerka]

in practical terms, yeah, what Attilla says. The Meerkat is right! :D No further contact. If she requests it, then decide with DH whether you wish to or not. If you go ahead, then make sure it's in a place of your choosing, at your time of choosing (both time of day and how many weeks ahead), for the length of time that you decide. And be prepared for guilt tripping, tears and anger .. and spitefulness.

So pleased your mother is backing you so much.

Again, /respect for how you're handling this. so so hard to go against the grain and not be polite, not be conciliatory, not to attempt to discuss and sort things out like one would prefer to. It's unpleasant when you have to go against all your training and beliefs to be so firm with someone you'd rather get on with, just for their position in the family fellow feeling.

[Meerka]

Oh, another thought. If she does keep texting then maybe one option is to text back "we don't want to discuss it. Please respect that. Further texts on the subject will be deleted" and then keep it it. Literally delete anything more that comes. Other wiser people may disagree though and think its better to say nothing. They may well be right.

[MommyBird]

I think saying nothing is our best option, the more she texts the more upset and hurt we feel so we feel we need to keep defend ourselves and it's like talking to a brick wall.

Deleting the texts and ignoring is best. Nothing we say makes and difference anway.

[FiveExclamations]

I think Attila is right, the whole script thing can work on a rational person and even with an irrational can at least leaving you feeling more in control, but she's right, you're still getting sucked back in. Ignore, ignore, ignore is good.

Also agree with Meerka's one text warning that further will be deleted idea, it shuts down the whole manipulating you by text route.

[Jux]

Ignore. This may sound harsh, but it's like splitting up with an abusive ex who will not leave you alone because that would mean he'd lost and his whole raison d'etre is to win. The only way is not to engage at all. As she is dh's mum, you may have to come up with something else long term, but for the moment you need to concentrate on yourselves and the people who enhance your life, rather than people who will always be troublesome.

Hope the book arrives soon and is helpful.

[Phalenopsis]

Don't know if it has been mentioned already but look up 'narcissistic personality disorder' Mommybird. You'll find that your MIL is a classic example or at least displays many of the traits of one. She won't change, she'll try to twist everything that has happened back on to you and your husband.

Don't engage with her. She'll get off on it.

[MommyBird]

No contact has been made today. so far!
Feel alot more confident today, and less of a doormat.

I will have a look at that now :) thank you!

why is everything so complicated!?

[MommyBird]

Oh fabulous, she's a Toxic Parent who has a Narcissistic personality disorder.
time to buy her a broomstick and a pointy black hat?
I guess going out for coffee and going on shopping trips is never going to happen!