Stag weekends, nights away and trust!

[Ollybear]

Hi ladies.

I have nobody else to talk to about this so have plucked up the courage to post and hope you can all enlighten me. Sorry if this is long.

DP has a large circle of close friends. We are at an age where one by one they are getting engaged and married. We are engaged with a 1 yr old child (no wedding planned - plan is to do it abroad in a few years time). There seems to be a steady pace of around 4-5 stag trips or birthday nights away each year. Every time it causes a huge argument.

Firstly, can anyone explain strip clubs to me? As far as I know DP's friend's wives/girlfriends do not have an issue with this. They all appear to have very happy relationships and DP believes they are all OK with it. Your partner watches a naked woman in the flesh and potentially/most likely becomes sexually aroused by that - how is that OK when to do so alone in a hotel room would not be deemed acceptable??? Please, someone enlighten me.

Last night he told me his latest friend to get engaged has mentioned a festival next summer as the stag trip away. I told DP I wouldn't feel happy about that. Festivals are extremely sociable events. In all likelihood a group of good looking men would attract the attention of a group of girls and the two would mingle over the course of the weekend.

On a week to week basis I trust DP. He is a family man, committed to raising our child together and does not want a broken home. However, when drink is involved and when away from home I do believe there is every chance he would be flattered by the attention and would enjoy the excitement away from our mundane day to day. If there was no way I would find out (which I wouldn't) then yes, I think he would at least have a drunken snog if the opportunity presented itself.

How do I change my mindset?

Even if, in the future, I'm strong enough to pretend I have no problem with him going away, how do I prevent it from damaging our relationship anyway? - i.e I won't want to be physically affectionate/intimate with him for a long time after these trips because I feel very disconnected from him.

After last night's argument DP says he has had enough and cannot go through this one more time. He walked out the house this morning for work without seeing me or our child. It seems serious. I often think it would be far easier to be alone and not have to think of these issue. The bottom line is people cheat, a lot, it happens all the time. Many of my friends have cheated. Family members have cheated. This boards is filled with stories of cheating. I don't believe I'm being particularly irrational by thinking that DP may cheat!

How the hell do I change this mindset and repair the relationship???

I don't know how you change your mindset.

It wouldn't occur to me to worry that DH would do anything if he was away.
I've got no objection to him being in a bar talking to women if he's on a stag or whatever, none at all.

Has your DP ever given you reason to doubt him?

Because a man posting this would be called a controlling arsehole and told to sort himself out.

Before I post any words of advice, I should just make it clear that I have a big problem with strip clubs and the sorts of men who frequent them. IMO they objectify women, and for every "happy stripper" type out there, there will be at least another 10 who have ended up in that role through desperation or coercion. Any man who gets his jollies knowing that is a poor human being IMO.

However, not everyone agrees with me and I have no right to inflict my opinion on them. I've pointed out my POV because it will have a direct bearing on how seriously you decide to take my advice.

Regardless of whether strip cubs are harmless fun or misogynistic dives, conflicting POVs on this cannot ever work in a relationship. Either you decide to call it a day, accept he is going to do this, or he decides that his relationship with you is worth more than watching a woman take her clothes off.

There are other ways of celebrating with his friends. He, however, will probably feel that you are dictating the terms of his friendships, and I doubt you'll be able to get him to see any other view because all his friends will have a very similar view about women and strip clubs - we all tend to seek out people who endorse our values after all.

Personally, I would walk over this, but I am not you. What you have to decide is how strongly you feel about this issue and whether it is a dealbreaker.

I know where you're coming from. I wouldn't trust my dp on a stag weekend either. He went to a festival in the early days of our relationship and afterwards photos appeared of him and his mate with a group of girls looking nice and cosy in the tents. I also know they exchanged mobile numbers and added each other to facebook etc.

So no, I wouldn't trust him and I don't care how it makes me look. If people want to be trusted they should act trustworthy (there is more dodgy history in our case but I won't take over your thread with it!) but no, if he insisted on going it would be a dealbreaker for me.

See I would trust my DP on a stag weekend. But then he's not the sort, nor are his friends, who would attend a stag weekend that involved strip clubs or flirting with other women. They all respect their families far too much. Which isn't to say that they don't get hideously drunk and spend a few hours whispering sweet nothings to the toilet...

You're entitled express your concerns. If he doesn't respect those concerns, offer reassurance, modify his behaviour etc and prefers to flounce out instead then he's not helping reduce your anxiety.

Not everyone is comfortable with strip clubs although my experience is that the men who visit them are not necessarily sexually aroused by it. Women at a Chippendales concert have a lot more fun and get a lot friskier IME. Also, not everyone cheats and you have to find a happy medium that's between 'blanket trust' and 'possessive'. But it's a two-man job... not just you changing your mindset.

How often do you get to go on weekends away with friends btw... ?

"If there was no way I would find out (which I wouldn't) then yes, I think he would at least have a drunken snog if the opportunity presented itself. "

Well then he is not a family man and is not committed to you.

Changing your "mindset" isn't really possible if you are with a man you know is only faithful because he hasn't got any other offers.

I would totally trust DH to go on a stag night or to a festival, but then I don't think he would cheat on me even if he could do it without me finding out.

I would not be happy with my DH going away on 5 trips away for birthdays/stag do's while we had a 1 year old child.

Alibabaandthe40nappies - I completely agree with you that a man writing all this would be deemed a controlling arsehole! I really do get that.

Has he ever given reason to doubt him? Hmmm. He has never done anything bad that I know of but he has always in the many years I've known him been one to hide the truth for an easier life. For example, I find out where he goes on stag trips usually via facebook photos (his friends as he's not on there) - places like Hooters and whatnot. He would not offer up that info. He has lied many times. But obviously he feels he has to lie - I am not a laid back partner, I guess.

Dahlen - I hold the same view point as you and I think that makes me & DP incompatible. It's not necessarily that strip clubs make me feel threatened as such (I don't believe he's going to run off with a stripper!) but I find the whole thing so distasteful and degrading to women. I don't think DP is interested in going. It is more a case of that is what happens on stag trips (with one of his friendship groups anyhow) and he would feel a fool to say he's not going. He is a very laid back person and doesn't think too deeply. Even though he now has a daughter he has no comprehension of female issues/objectification etc. Perhaps I should walk away. The strip clubs thing just seems to be such a common destination for all stag trips that in all likelihood I'd be faced with the same issue in a subsequent relationship.

"The strip clubs thing just seems to be such a common destination for all stag trips that in all likelihood I'd be faced with the same issue in a subsequent relationship."

Not if you're a bit choosier.

It's never been an issue for me.

JoinYourPlayfellows - but I wonder if my thinking that is just me being irrational? I think there's a chance he could, because we have gone through the cliche/typical 1st year with a child - sleep deprivation/frustrations & bickering/poor sex life etc. As we were before we had a child I would definitely not have thought he would cheat. Things are just not great right now so I feel insecure.

CogitoErgoSometimes - I haven't spent a night away since before I was pregnant (2 years). I haven't wanted to. I'm happy meeting friends for coffee, playdates, playgroups, the occasional meal and drinks out in the evening but I'm not interested in big nights out with overnight stays or weekends away. I'm tired and probably a bit of a homebird! DP is more sociable than me and really values that time with friends. He also still really enjoys a few drinks to wind down and destress where as my drinking days are basically over.

My DH has been to lots of stag dos abroad and holidays with friends...much like the way that I have been on lots of hen dos and girlie weekends away. I trust him completely - he's not that kind of guy at all. I don't even mind him going to strip clubs - personally I have no problem with them. I believe he trusts me too - he's certainly never suggested that I stay home in case I'm tempted by some other random guy I may or may not meet.

Undoubtedly some people will play around but they can do that at home. It's all down to trust isn't it? You are basically saying that you don't trust him and that's a bit insulting....unless he has given you previous reasons for mistrust.

Saying that though, a guy in my work went on holiday with his mates this summer. Out of 8 of them, only 2 did not cheat

I don't think I'd have a problem with my partner going away to a festival, stag do etc. However, it's easy for me to say this because he just wouldn't. He doesn't behave like a single man, he behaves like a partner and father. I'm not sure what advice to offer other than I wouldn't be with a man like you describe your partner as being.

BeautifulBlondePineapple - considering the story about the guy at your work, aren't you a little naive to basically state your guy is different from the rest? Clearly guys have a problem keeping it in their trousers when they're away from home. Most likely due to drink and the fact they know their partners will never know. I have had the most unlikely of married men hit on my throughout my 20s.

I wish I thought like you - life would be so much easier! Yes, I agree with you, if my partner is never looks elsewhere then I do insult him.

Phylis81 - I'd be so interested to hear back from you - what happens in your relationship now then? Does your partner not go away any more? Do you have some kind of agreement about what you'll accept and what you won't?

I'm not sure how you would change your mindset but something that you may need to question for yourself is how is he supposed to gain your trust if he isn't given opportunity to earn it? Can he earn it?

It would be irrational to trust a man you know is a liar.

kinkyfuckery - he goes out often and has a reasonable social life considering we have a young child. I don't suppose he can earn it because ultimately every time he goes away I just don't know but how can anyone ever know. It stops being loving towards him and that's what damages our relationship further.

JoinYourPlayfellows -
"It would be irrational to trust a man you know is a liar". -- THIS!! I guess this is what underlies everything. But his answer would simply be that he has had to lie or withhold the truth because I can flare up over things many women would hold no issue with (Hooters/strip clubs etc).

"But his answer would simply be that he has had to lie"

Yeah, inveterate liars always claim that they have to lie.

It's because they think it's OK to lie.

He's blaming his dishonesty on you.

Are you OK with that?

You can spend the rest of your life trying to convince yourself of things that blatantly aren't true if you want.

But whether other women would have a problem with the things he does is irrelevant.

He is supposed to be in a relationship with YOU.

If he doesn't like your terms, then he has the option of bogging off elsewhere. NOBODY forces him to lie.

But his answer would simply be that he has had to lie or withhold the truth because I can flare up over things many women would hold no issue with (Hooters/strip clubs etc).

But you're not many other women. Why would you be with someone who spoke to you like this.

JoinYourPlayfellows & Vivacia - thank you for seeing my side. I do hate that I am made to feel the bad/mad one, even though my feelings are valid.

I really do not know what to do. I really don't. Although it is possible he has already made the decision to leave. I will find out in due course.

" Clearly guys have a problem keeping it in their trousers when they're away from home."

This needs to have the word 'some' inserted between 'Clearly' and 'guys'. Not all men are some sort of wild uncontrolled beast who can't enjoy a few days away with their mates without cheating on a partner.

I don't agree with strip clubs for reasons outlined by previous posters. Never have.

However if someone is in a relationship and can't trust their partner enough to let them go off on a weekend away and relax about it, there are problems in the relationship. It could be your own insecurity OP or it could be a justified lack of trust. But whichever, it's unhealthy.

For me this issue isn't about trust

It's about the kind of man that uses family money to uphold the sex industry and views females as objects

I don't want to be married to a man like that. The End.

My husband wouldn't go away for a stag weekend because he hates being away from home lol so I'm lucky I don't have to worry about that. I would trust him though if he did because if I were to go on a hen weekend I would expect him to trust me. I hate being away from home too though so it'll never happen lol goodness me we sound like a right pair of Wally's lol ;)

2 separate issues:

1. Strip clubs. I'm not happy about them either for reasons mentioned above. I set this out early and if DP chose to ignore my feelings (I v much doubt he would, he isn't the type to go to one, feels much the same) I may well choose to walk away.

1. Going away in general. I feel for your DP here; I've been in a relationship where I wasn't trusted (I never cheated, he just worried) when younger and eventually left because of the sinking feeling I would get when my friends were planning nights/Weekends out/away because I knew the shit storm it would cause.

If you don't trust him and will withold affection/start a big argument whenever he wants to go on what will be seen as important events ( stag dos) to him, i doubt either of you will be happy going forwRd

I may be in a minority here but I wouldn't have a problem with it. The irony is my DH hates strip clubs, any porn etc, etc. I don't mind. I've been to a couple of stag dos and to Spearmint Rhino a couple of times and it wasn't a big deal.

However, if it matters that much to you - and I do believe you are absolutely entitled to have that view and NOT unreasonable for doing so, you and your DP need to really talk about it.

If you're willing to end the relationship because of it, he needs to know. And you need to decide what exactly is the deal breaker - going to these places or your fear / assumption of what it will lead to. If the latter then that's easier to work though.

Your worry about festivals makes me think there is a big trust issue as well as the objection to strip clubs. Is that justified? To be honest, that rings alarm bells with me more than the stripper. If you can't trust him in that environment, how many other scenarios like that will occur over the next 50 years?

Takingbackmonday - although they are two separate issues in the abstract sense, I don't think they can be separated in this particular instance. The context of the OP's lack of trust in her DP is because he lies about going on these sorts of things.