Stag weekends, nights away and trust!

[Ollybear]

Hi ladies.

I have nobody else to talk to about this so have plucked up the courage to post and hope you can all enlighten me. Sorry if this is long.

DP has a large circle of close friends. We are at an age where one by one they are getting engaged and married. We are engaged with a 1 yr old child (no wedding planned - plan is to do it abroad in a few years time). There seems to be a steady pace of around 4-5 stag trips or birthday nights away each year. Every time it causes a huge argument.

Firstly, can anyone explain strip clubs to me? As far as I know DP's friend's wives/girlfriends do not have an issue with this. They all appear to have very happy relationships and DP believes they are all OK with it. Your partner watches a naked woman in the flesh and potentially/most likely becomes sexually aroused by that - how is that OK when to do so alone in a hotel room would not be deemed acceptable??? Please, someone enlighten me.

Last night he told me his latest friend to get engaged has mentioned a festival next summer as the stag trip away. I told DP I wouldn't feel happy about that. Festivals are extremely sociable events. In all likelihood a group of good looking men would attract the attention of a group of girls and the two would mingle over the course of the weekend.

On a week to week basis I trust DP. He is a family man, committed to raising our child together and does not want a broken home. However, when drink is involved and when away from home I do believe there is every chance he would be flattered by the attention and would enjoy the excitement away from our mundane day to day. If there was no way I would find out (which I wouldn't) then yes, I think he would at least have a drunken snog if the opportunity presented itself.

How do I change my mindset?

Even if, in the future, I'm strong enough to pretend I have no problem with him going away, how do I prevent it from damaging our relationship anyway? - i.e I won't want to be physically affectionate/intimate with him for a long time after these trips because I feel very disconnected from him.

After last night's argument DP says he has had enough and cannot go through this one more time. He walked out the house this morning for work without seeing me or our child. It seems serious. I often think it would be far easier to be alone and not have to think of these issue. The bottom line is people cheat, a lot, it happens all the time. Many of my friends have cheated. Family members have cheated. This boards is filled with stories of cheating. I don't believe I'm being particularly irrational by thinking that DP may cheat!

How the hell do I change this mindset and repair the relationship???

"problem keeping it in their trousers when away from home"

Bloody hope not! DP away last night, prob, tonight, all last week, and for 3-4 weeks in a weeks time.

I trust him. He misses me. I miss him. We talk every evening before bed. I don't WANT to snog other people. Neither does he.

Trust is the issue.

I could be wrong and he could be out wining and dining strippers as we speak. But I trust him not to be. Just as he trust me not to be off gallivanting when he's away.

I wouldn't be with a man who lied to me because I "over react"
I wouldn't be with a man who went to strip clubs
I wouldn't be with a man who jumped on the bandwagon of his mates dumbass mentality.

You sound like a really together,emotionally intelligent woman please do not compromise your moral standards for those who have values of an alley cat.

You don't have to pretend your ok with something and be the "cool wife" don't demean yourself.

I would never alter my stance on something i feel strongly about for the sake of keeping a man happy.

FWIW i don't think you are insecure, i just think you're confusing insecurity with the fact that your "d"p probably isn't the man you thought he was.

Sorry OP i forgot to ask

Does he ever try and make you feel like you're crazy/over emotional/unjustified in feeling the way you do?

I feel for you as I would be feeling exactly like you are in this situation. I have also had relationships in the past where this kind of thing has caused big issues because I would not be able to be ok with it. One of the reasons I married my dh was because he is not into that type of thing and I believe that if such a scenario did present itself he would totally get where I am coming from and not go along with it if it would upset me.

I don't think you can, or should have to change your mindset.

He doesn't tend to mention stag nights to be honest, he was invited to one a while back but chose not to go. I'm absolutely fine with him going out with the lads etc but when he last went on an all-nighter he broke promises and acted like a twat so again - I wouldn't be happy about future all-nighters now either.

So that's festivals and all nighters out of the window for him unless he wants to be single.

I know there is a stag thing coming up in Ibiza - he's not mentioned it but if he goes he'll be coming home a single man.

I think your problem is not with strip clubs or stag dos but with trust.

I wouldn't be happy with him going to a strip club but can't see why you have a problem with a festival. You wrote

"Festivals are extremely sociable events. In all likelihood a group of good looking men would attract the attention of a group of girls and the two would mingle over the course of the weekend."

Exactly the same could be written about any weekend away or, indeed, a trip to the shops or the theatre or a game of golf.

You say that the bottom line is about cheating and that "I am not being irrational thinking that DP might cheat" In other words you don't trust him.

That's what you've got to address - trust

Well you haven't 'got to' do anything, but if you want to do something my advice would be to think about your choice of partner, rather than your default position of thinking this is a trust problem.

It's not.

Trusting someone who lies, blames you for his lies and tries to guilt you into believing you're out of step with your own sex would be a severely emotionally unhealthy response. Mistrust on the other hand would be the only sane response.

There is of course a link between your partner's desire to be away so often, his use of the sex industry and you looking after a baby and not having comparable time out yourself. The whole situation is gendered, but how could it not be? It would be most unusual to find a man who believed passionately in equality and who invested fully in his relationship, who used the sex industry and was this selfish.

Everything here is congruent.

Please however don't think that all men are like this or that all women are laid-back about the sex industry (either their partners' use of it or as a discrete political issue).

That is simply not true.

There are men who despise the sex industry, wouldn't dream of using it or being close friends with people who do - and who prioritise trips away from their family and ensure there is some equity in that for their partners.

Have you ever been to a strip club?
My best friend is a bloke and I went on his stag too be. There is seriously nothing remotely erotic. It's just a laugh. A bit like when women watch the chippendales. Lots of banter jeers and no touching. ( in fact all the ladies nights I've been to are far far worse!)
Festivals are weekends in a muddy tent, getting pissed, banter and music.
I went to Leeds a few weeks ago. Had a great time. My dh didn't go. I Managed quite successfully not to shag anyone!

You either trust him or you don't
If you don't why are you with him?

You can't control what happens. Worrying wont change what will be. You have to develop more trust or you may as well end the relationship. It won't work out as you are.
You will resent him and you are sending off a signal that would put me off marriage.
Do you have a group of your own friends that you can see? You said you had no one to talk to?
If you don't, do you get jealous of him spending time away from you?

Politically, it is nothing like the Chippendales. There are endless threads on here you can search for which explain the differences and highlight the Equal Pay differentials as well as the naivety of trying to give the two types of entertainment any parity, so I will not labour that here as this is a support thread about a relationship and not a political debate. Neither would I want to assume that you approve of The Chippendales yourself or would regard it as your favoured entertainment.

Not all strip clubs are the same either. The regulations that are in place for Sexual Entertainment Venues in the UK (which nevertheless are not always adhered to) are completely different to those which apply abroad. Even to the point of existence in the first place.

I'd focus on what sort of man you want to be partnered with and raise children with and concentrate less on trying to make yourself compatible with someone who is so different.

If I truly believed that DH would cheat on me if the opportunity arose I would not be with him.

If I felt like the jealousy was down to insecurities on my end I would first try to have a heart to heart with DH to reassure myself. If that didn't work I would look into counselling.

I think it is unreasonable to expect him never to socialise with other females and I think unfair to assume the only motivation for doing so would be to try something on with them.

I find strip clubs distasteful too. However, I would never "ban" DH from going to one. If he ended up at one on a stag night I wouldn't care that much. If he frequently went there through his own choice then I wouldn't be with him anymore.

Maybe jealousy isn't the right word. I think I mean distrust.

Men do cheat, and so do women.

I trust my husband completely as he has never given me a reason not to. Trust is very important in our relationship and I can say 100% that we trust each other.

Because of this I am happy for him to go on as many stag do's and nights out as he wants. He in return thinks nothing of me doing my own thing.

That's how is works for us.

It sounds like you don't trust your dp? You do realise you will only push him away and make cheating more likely if you act like this.

Susu, I find it very interesting that you don't consider "ended up at a stag do" and "went there by choice" as being the exact same thing. Did you mean there might be times where he was forced against his will ?

I can totally see what susu means. Stag dos are one thing. Occasional nights out with the lads being raucous looking at scantily clad women. If he was going every weekend then that's fir his own titilation and then I would have an issue myself

I think everyone goes through this stag/hen phase at some time or another.

Like you and other posters I dislike strip clubs etc. It's not an issue of trust for me - I think it says a lot (all negative) about the men who attend these events/establishments.

Fortunately DH is if the same mindset so tended to turn down these type of events with an excuse but where he was unable at the relevant point in the evening moved to a bar with like minded others and joined with the rest later (I don't just have his word for this btw).

So not sure how much I can help on this front.

I have to say the festival wouldn't bother me at all though and think this is maybe where you need to choose your battles.

My biggest grip tbh was how frequent they became at one point, how long and how extravagant. It seemed everyone was out to up the anti.

So what started a night on the town became a UK weekend to a weekend abroad to a long weekend abroad to finally a week.

It was costing a fortune and worse from my POV was the time DH had to take off work which in turn impacted time off available to spend as a family and on school holiday childcare.

DH agreed enough was enough at this point - but it did cause friction - and in hindsight he was pretty damn reasonable about it.

So my advice would be stick to your principles, pick your battles and agree a budget and amount of time annual to spend on these events.

Other than that remember this will pass...

tough one and no advice as such but just wanted to say my exh used to make me feel like a paranoid control freak for not trusting him until he left for OW whereas subsequent boyfriends I've had have not made me feel like that and the trust has flowed easily and naturally.

So sometimes like others have said, mistrust is a reasonable/rational response to a situation

OP, if your DP persists in doing something you have a problem with and tells you that he doesn't care that you have a problem with it, that's not exactly loving, is it? No wonder you feel bad.

< awaits stoodents puttig themselves through Uni bollocks >

You either trust him or you don't. Why do you think he'll change his morals just because he's away for the night? Would you if you were away with the girls for the night on a hen night?

If you are arguing and accusing him before he leaves he's leaving feeling you are very pissed off with him and him feeling aggrieved and not trusted. If you are loving and trusting he leaves feeling loved and supported. If he was even considering pulling and shagging someone else - which frame of mind is he most likely to do it in?

If he is going to cheat there is nothing you can do or say that will stop it and if you don't trust him and think he will then he will do it regardless off being on a local night out or away for the weekend.

PS if a DP of mine was giving me a hard time about going out without them I'd be running for the hills

AF I wouldn't be thrilled about it either way but I do think there's a difference. I don't mean that he would have been forced but I don't know that I would expect him to make a feminist stand and say he doesn't agree with strip clubs and leave during a night out with the guys.

We had our stag and hen dos at our friends houses who live next door to each other. When we went over there to play a childish practical joke there was porn on the TV. Didn't really bother me even though I would be upset if I found out DH was watching it at home. No one was even watching it and I just assumed someone put it on because " it's what you do at a stag do".

My God Susu

"We had our stag and hen dos at our friends houses who live next door to each other. When we went over there to play a childish practical joke there was porn on the TV."

God, I find this SO bizarre. A group of men put porn on the tele - so ultimately they're planning on getting turned on with their mates around them??? Geez, I find men SO strange. That all seems very gay to me, no???

Thank you, everyone, for the replies. Unbelievably helpful and I will reply properly as soon as I've had time to think it all through.

My DH has been to all his best mates stag dos that include strip clubs. I have no problem with this as I trust him completely. The difference is that we discuss everything in our lives. If I had felt slightest bit uneasy about it I know he wouldn't go and would not be upset to give it a miss. It all comes down to trust.

If you are seriously upset about him going away on a stag do then I think you have bigger problems in your relationship.

It is of course your own choice what you are willing to excuse as simply "boys being boys"

I have said it before, and people often find it very uncomfortable

the male gang mentality of watching porn together, strippers, other men getting Lapdances, live sex shows etc is male posturing for the gaze of other men. Latent homoeroticism at it's finest