Who should you put first - your partner or your children?

[Notsoyummymummy1]

Put a lock on your bedroom door. Never let a child interrupt. Kiss your partner first. This guidance is in Andrew G Marshall's book, 'I Love You But You Always Put Me Last', which argues that parents need to childproof their relationships, or lose them - partners are for life but children are just passing through! Does anyone else think this completely unrealistic?! Incidentally he doesn't have kids himself!

I don't think there has yet been a situation where I have had to weigh up competing needs of DH and DDs that are of equal importance.

They are little girls, he is a grown man.

So what they want and need are entirely different from what he (and I) wants and needs.

I find this question quite perplexing, despite its regular appearance.

It just seems so meaningless.

All of the people in our family are equally important. We aren't competing with one another, we are (hopefully) supporting one another.

No way would I lock myself into my bedroom. Apart from the fire risk, if my kids need to come in to my room, then can come in. They barely ever do.

I kiss whomever is closest. It's not a competition, I have plenty of kisses for all of them.

I do try to teach the bigger DDs not to interrupt people when they are talking. Not because grown ups are more important, but because it is not good manners to talk over people.

I do think there has been a shift in how we view children though - they have become the absolute focus of our lives in a way that we haven't previously. In my grandma's day children had to give their seat up for adults on the bus but nowadays we would be horrified if children had to stand. My mum just left us playing outside and making up games ourselves but I obsess over whether I should be taking dd swimming, baby gym and whether I'm a bad mother if she's bored for five minutes but my mum would never have done that. I'm not saying any one way is the right way but I do think the role of the parent is all consuming nowadays and this inevitably spills over into our relationships.

I don't think its wise to neglect your relationship or yourself in favour of your children.

But as with most things, its a balancing act. I don't feel that its either or. Although as others have said in the days of 3 under 5 and a lot of bf, it certainly felt that everything took a back seat to the needs of my children.

And although they're a bit older now, I still structure my life around them. But also around my own needs and my relationship.

The thing to remember about Andrew Marshall is that he is a man for whom gender politics is a complete mystery. He has got very rich on expounding a whole range of myths and supersitions based on his core belief that men are entitled to sex and women must comply or face the consequences.

Unfortunately, his books sell because women have been socialised to believe that if they don't keep men sexually serviced, they will look elsewhere (regardless of how good the sex is for those women) and that if the 'worst' happens and a man cheats, they can 'win back' the man concerned by having lots of sex and putting the man's needs first within the family. This appeals to some women's control freakery and belief that if they behave a certain way themselves, they can control the behaviour of their partners.

What would be a better approach, politically and personally, would be to acknowledge that parenting and marriage are shared activities and that there will be times when the needs of the romantic relationship recede to cope with the needs of others depending on you. Just as there will be other times when it is more important to concentrate on the relationship and the needs of the individuals within it. But that applies equally to men as it does women.

Strangely enough, Andrew Marshall doesn't proselytise about workaholism in men and the effect on relationships and parenthood, nearly as much as he froths about mothers.

This is from the article in the Guardian, right? I think he had some valid points. You do need to maintain your relationship with DP and find time together, and not only talk about the children. It is important to show interest in each other as partners not just co parents, so the kissing idea is fine. I'm not sure about locking our bedroom door, but I wouldn't want DD coming in all the time - there should be some privacy!

Charbon, the more I know about this author, the less I like him! How have you heard about him? Do you have any links to articles? I'm annoyed now the Guardian article was obviously quite subjective.

DH and I are a partnership standing side by side caring for our children.

We each love our nearly adult children and have a different relationship with each of them, but the rock-solid relationship we have with each other is the foundation of the family. There is no 'more love', it is just different.

Except (whisper) DH and I roll our eyes about the children, the children and I do NOT roll our eyes about DH :)

Oh he's written a lot of books that not many professionals I know would use apart from for fire kindling .

The awful thing about them is that the press and publicity about these dirges tend to pick out a few messages with which no reasonable person could disagree. So yes, it's important that couples prioritise their sex lives and pay attention to their relationships. Who could disagree with that?

But underneath it all is a constant undercurrent of 'woman, know your place' and an ethos of blame and shame levied at people whose partners behave badly. Everything is written from a white middle class male-centric perspective, but sadly the people who buy his books are mainly women who are frightened by the prospect of losing their relationships and their security.

I would say the most important relationship in our family is mine and dp's. If that's fucked then our family doesn't work.

hmmm... I'm not sure I can apply this to my own relationship. If my partner is not given priority time with me or if he feels neglected or side-lined, he'll get over it. He's an adult and so will behave like one and will understand the constraints of time and other practicalities.

If I made my DC feel side-lined, neglected or didn't have enough time for them then I'd consider myself a bad mother and do think it would have a greater impact on his feelings and future emotional balance.

As JYPf said, its a meaningless and perplexing question. no straight answer.

So taking one example of children interrupting an adult conversation, is the consensus that a child trying to get attention (for anything non urgent) is acceptable? To me that is absolutely basic manners and even young children (say 3yo and up) should be taught not to interrupt. i also do think its important that children are not led to believe they are centre of the universe and that the other people living in the house are just as important, although as someone said upthread, their needs should come first not necessarily their wants.

"Nobody in our family is more important than anyone else."

same here

"So taking one example of children interrupting an adult conversation, is the consensus that a child trying to get attention (for anything non urgent) is acceptable?"

Where did you get that idea from?
It's certainly not acceptable in my family BECAUSE it is bad manners. It is important to teach children good manners, IMO (although I know there are some on MN who differ on that point!)

I think Dahlen's points about wants and needs makes this clear - children's needs have to come first because they are mostly unable to fulfil them themselves. Adult needs come next because they are better able to wait, and because they can often fulfil them themselves. Children's and adults' wants are an entirely different matter!

I get really quite cross with people whose children are constantly tugging on their sleeves yelling "MUM!! MUM!!" at them while we're trying to have a conversation - unless their leg is hanging off or they're about to soil themselves, there's really no need for it (I do know a few people with children like this, sadly).

When I was talking about prioritising my children, I meant their needs. I will still always prioritise their needs while they are unable to fulfil their own needs themselves.

I sort of agree with him (based only on the guardian article, I've ot read anything else). I have tinies and of course at the moment their needs come first. But DH is the primary relationship in my life.

In fact I agree with everything TSC says

Many studies show where the parents put their relationship above the child, the children are far more secure and happy.

Some of you arent distinguishing between relationship and need.

Some of you arent distinguishing between relationship and need

IMO people who are totally child centred get off on being neeeded.

Its a balancing act, and a high wire act when all the kids were pre school

I think it is very important to put your partner first, before both children and work.

Some of you arent distinguishing between relationship and need - very good point, it is totally about balance but I personally hate the sort of 'myummy martyrs' you often see (and sometimes a few Dads like this) who are totally obsessed about their children and seem happy to ignore their partner.

I was recently spending time with a friend, you could see her fawning over every comment her teenage son made, lapping up his opinion (it was actually rather vomit inducing) - her DH tried to join in the conversation & was completely side-lined - that is not healthy in my opinion.

My relationship with my DH is very important, and having a good relationship will hopefully influence our child & how he develops his own future.

I think a solid, mature and loving couple relationship provides great foundations for children. Of course, children also deserve a lot of attention!

I agree about the most important relationship being mine and DH's - if we are not on track that will impact on the parenting of our children in many ways. It's not as simple as "if his needs are sidelined he can manage it" - it is more that if two adults aren't communicating and making time for each other first, their relationship will suffer (whether that's said or unsaid) and this will impact on the children.

However I dont' think it needs to be seen as a priority above relationships with any children. I wouldn't focus on my relationship with DH to the detriment of my relationship with the children. The examples given are just ways in which you can prioritise each other. We make sure we get out alone together, when our kids are in bed or about to go to bed, and they are happy being left with a babysitter (no skin of their nose but is an example of prioritising our relationship).

Charbon I agree with what you say about this particular author.

However, on this specific issue, I do, to an extent agree with him.

I think it is equally sexist that women are now expected to give themselves entirely to their DC. In fact, if they do not, they are bad parents (there are clear tones of this on the thread).

Women deny themselves the basic right to enjoy time as a couple, because post DC that is seen as unneccessary. And heaven forbid women be allowed to do things that are just for fun!

And when women do deny themselves the basic pleasure of their relationship, they are heartily congratulated by other women for 'putting their DC first' and are crowned A Good Mother.

TSC that is exactly how I feel.

I want my DC to know that they are loved and protected and nurtured but not that 'they are my world'.

They are not. My world is huge and there is more than enough space in it for me, DH, other family members, friends etc etc Sometimes they come first, sometimes they don't.