If Im being unreasonable with my grown up daughter, i need you lot to tell me. I feel so confused!

[Shellywelly1973]

Dd is 21. Lives at home. Older ds24 moved out 5 years ago when he went to uni. Other dc are dd11, ds8&ds5. Im 19 weeks pregnant. Dd21 reacted really badly to news of the new baby. She hasn't spoken to me or Dp in 3 weeks. Ignores us & barely answers when we speak to her. She sent me a really nasty & insulting text the day i announced the pregnancy.

Now there's part of me who totally understands her point of view. I understand she feels Im too old to be having more dc. I've got plenty, why have more!

But, she's gone out of her way to tell a family member Im pregnant. I have gone NC with this person. Dd knows how deeply hurt & offended i was by something this family member did about 6 months ago.

Im really angry at dd. This probably isn't fair of me but its how i feel. I've carried a secret for dd for about 3years,a secret she's kept from all the rest of her family. I would never ever betray dd. I had a mc 2 days before her 21st. We didn't alter any plans due to the mc. Everything went as dd wanted. She never even asked if i was ok. She doesn't pay rent. She doesn't do any housework. She never helps with the younger dc.

I've done a mightly shit job with her. Shes very successful but one spoilt princess.

I want her out of the house if Im honest but i won't do that as Im her parent, the so called responsible one... How do i move on from this? am i the one who's actually out of order by having another baby?

Dd has betrayed my trust by telling this person & well she knows it but i need to get over it, how do i do that? should i forgive her?

Any advice appreciated as my mind is really confused!!

Dc24 had already told me dd feels hard done by. If i just threw her out she would say its because of the baby.

The baby won't make any difference to the sleeping arrangements. We don't need her room that much!

If we had family in London i would possibly ask them if she could stay with them.
Dd works long hours, is out of the house at 5.30am. She attends college one day a week. Her work load is heavy.

Credit where its due but now Im thinking, why have i let that over ride everything else?

Why does dd feel hard done by?

I definitely wouldnt throw her out.

As you have acknowledged, you have been too soft on her. She should be given the option to change and buckle down. Agree that it is to her credit that she is working hard, and studying too.

Perhaps deep down, she knows you have been too lenient on her, and resents you for it. [dont really understand why she is so miffed or upset about the baby].

I dont know why dd feels so hard done by.

My Ds24 told her to get a grip!

Would it take the sting out of it if dp spoke to her? This used to happen when I was a kid. If one parent had been very badly hurt by a child's actions - an older or adult child - the other parent would do the 'chat'. (This was common among my peers' families; happened to my elder bro once too.) It puts things at one remove, gives some space when both people are highly invested and both hurt or angry, but can ameliorate the situation somewhat. I know he's not actually her dad, and he's probably pretty hurt by it too.

On the other hand there's nothing like a passionate and complete telling off from your mum to make you look at yourself. (I remember my mum telling me when I was 15 that she was ashamed of me about a particularly thing. The shame I felt was appalling, but I spent that night tearfully re-evaluating my attitudes, which was just as well.)

I would not throw her out just at the moment: however unfairly, she will associate that with the baby, not with her own awful behaviour, and the repercussions could last long after you and your dp are gone.

But I would be a lot stricter about how much I run after her and I would pull her up sharply every time she speaks disrespectfully of you or her siblings.

Dp won't get involved. I've always stuck up for dd when dp has said anything about her. It drives him insane, the way she behaves & especially how she speaks to the younger dc.

I wont throw her out but i want rent every month. Also I will allocate everyone including dd a job within the house.

I hope she doesn't like it, i hope she moves out. Eventually she'll realise what a brat she's been. Im deeply hurt & offended by her. Its time she grew up!

She has been ruling the roost hasnt she?

It is going to be a shock when she isnt going to get away with it.

But from your pov, dont go completely the other way. There is a whole lot of middle ground.

And maybe listen to your dp more? Sounds like he has been getting a bit short changed in being listened to.

She sounds fairly toxic to be honest, and you don?t need that under your roof especially during your pregnancy (congratulations by the way). When I was 21, myself, and my peer group were climbing the walls to get our own place. It was the making of me. Four us agreed to become house mates and it did not take long for us to save up and contribute towards a joint deposit. Sure, the house we found and could afford was a sht hole, but it was our shthole, we were masters of our own Kingdom for the first time, we felt like proper grown ups. We also were fairly rapidly introduced to the harsh realities of running a household, paying bills, learning how to cook, not spending all our money on beers, learning how to use the washing machine, sourcing second hand bits of furniture and realising that keeping the house clean impressed the girls. Yes we were poor but I look back on those times with immense fondness and those people I lived with back then remain as my closest friends. It would be a shame if your daughter misses out on that passage of her life.

It sounds like she does not respond to subtle suggestions, time to be blunt and direct, do not ?throw her out? but I think establish a realistic timetable for her to move out, give her time to find some potential new house mates and save up a deposit. But don?t let the situation drift, you need to take control as clearly she knows her current situation is a privileged one and she does not want to upset the status quo, but she needs to know that she has to start standing on her own two feet.

I have a personal issue with any child or young person being called toxic.

But sort of agree with the rest of your post.

Though "times change", and the idea, like it has been for the past 60 years of moving into your own place at the beginning of your 20s is starting to look a bit old hat, now that house prices amd rents and deposits are so high.

I am not condoning your DD1's behaviour here, but could any of this have have any basis in truth?

I've been thinking about the timings you've given, your DD1 would have been about 9 when your DP moved in, 10 when you had DD2, 13 when you had DS1 and 16 when you had DS2? Has she somehow managed to reach the conclusion that you replaced her in your affections? Teenagers can be irrational, teenage girls can be irrational and hormonal - has she convinced herself (wrongly) that she has been pushed out emotionally because you have a 'proper' family with your partner? One final possibility; if you're 40+, has she convinced herself that the new pregnancy will be dangerous for you and is worried about your health?

Agree with other posts.

It isn't too late to parent her with more confidence and autbority. Key word-respect. She has none for you and that is awful. Don't beat urself up about the way she's turned out,you did everything for her out of love and she is old enough and intelligent enough to behave like a decent human being. I can understand her points re the pregnancy (i felt the same with my mum),however,she has no right to treat you tbe way she has been. I'd have a frank discussion with her. She's prob pissed off and jealous because you will be giving more attention to a gorgeous baby and not her.

Set down rules and stick by them. If she wants to live at home and she works then she pays rent depending on how much she earns. I was working ft at 19 yrs old and paying £350 per month (that incl utilities but payed for

Sill phone! Lol!

I payed separately for any calls i made using the housephone. i used the itemised bill to work out what calls were mine and how much tbey cost-the sly cow tried charging me £50 when my calls and share of line rental came in at £20!!! That's sisters for you! Lol!

I don't understand why you never gave her house rules and chores,do you follow the same pattern with the other dc? If you do then you need to change that,they need to learn responsibility.

I don't think you've been a bad mum-just an over indulgent one lol!

She needs to 'woman up'. You will need support physically/mentally and emotionally during and after pregnancy so this kind of behaviour and attitude from her is just not acceptable. If she doesn't like it the tell her to move out. It's your job as a parent to prepare her to be an independent adult (you've already ensured she is a succesful one) and sometimes tough love is what it takes. You should be enjoying ur pregnancy and not having this kind of betrayal and negativity thrown at you.

I admire you for holding your tongue re her secret. I'd be bloody furious if someone did that to me,so furious that i would share their secret just to give them a taste of their own medicine. But that's the non-parent in me talking lol!

She def should be helping out with her siblings,apart from the closer relationship they'll benefit from she will be gaining some valuable insight and experience for the day she decides to be a mum.

Iam your daughters age and have a toxic mother.
I think you sound like a very supportive and brilliant mother.
Your daughter sounds very entitled.
Please do not allow her to treat you this way!

My way of dealing with challenging situations with my children was to wait for a situation that highlighted the situation that needed addressing - then appear to totally lose my temper and make out that they were on the verge of being seen as a complete loser or whatever thing it is that they really really care about NOT being. I'd then point out their choices - emphatically - make it clear that changes were necessary and that they had clear choices which were their responsibility to make and give them a clear time at which they were to come back and discuss things like an adult. This got the message across and kept a door open. Also made sure that they offered the changes, rather than me imposing them. I was usually a calm parent, so the anger always shook them.

sounds like you have heeded some fab advice, i think rent money at the least.

OMG! She earns £900 a month and lives for free in a studio flat on the top floor and has absolutely no household responsibilities??!!!!

she will spend the rest of her life walking all over you if you let her. i understand that you don't want her to face the kind of difficulties you were facing at her age, but you need to realise that she won't be because she has the love and support of her mother - something you didn't have.

i was earning £900 a month at 19, after i moved out from my sisters flat i moved into a house share. i was living in South West london (SW15), that £900 a month paid for my rent,my bills, my toiletries, groceries,clothes,nights out - everything i was also responsible for when i lived with my sister.

she will be fine and she will survive. the most difficult thing she will probably face is learning the definition of "need" and "want". I learnt to budget and look for bargains,be economical by either unplugging or switching things off rather than leaving them on standby,not waste food,not get drunk every weekend etc etc....

as for the jeremy kyle remark - unbelievable! i think jeremy kyle would have a lot to say about HER attitude and behavior rather than yours.

telling her it's time she moved out is NOT kicking her out. her boyfriend may be in jail for now but what will she do when he comes out or she finds another partner - is she going to have them staying overnight with her on a regular basis?!! I'd use reverse psychology and say it's in her best interest to move out because the baby will be doing baby things like crying really loudly at night which will no doubt affect her (precious beauty) sleep and in turn her punctuality/performance at work etc.

im glad you've decided on some rules. just be prepared for the "hard done by" spiel when you tell her! :-D No matter what she says - DON'T let her make you feel guilty and backtrack or lower the rent. use that as an opportunity to help her sort her finances.

good luck!

Thanks for so many replies.

Im going to be very direct & straight with dd. I've calmed down now & see the situation for what it is.

Although its not comfortable, I do recognise that my dd is her own person & i won't always like how she behaves.

She's so like my mum & sister in many ways-i know she'll never see things from my point of view.

The poster that pointed out she might be worried about me having another baby at my age, dd most certainly isn't worried about me & Im only 40!