If Im being unreasonable with my grown up daughter, i need you lot to tell me. I feel so confused!

[Shellywelly1973]

Dd is 21. Lives at home. Older ds24 moved out 5 years ago when he went to uni. Other dc are dd11, ds8&ds5. Im 19 weeks pregnant. Dd21 reacted really badly to news of the new baby. She hasn't spoken to me or Dp in 3 weeks. Ignores us & barely answers when we speak to her. She sent me a really nasty & insulting text the day i announced the pregnancy.

Now there's part of me who totally understands her point of view. I understand she feels Im too old to be having more dc. I've got plenty, why have more!

But, she's gone out of her way to tell a family member Im pregnant. I have gone NC with this person. Dd knows how deeply hurt & offended i was by something this family member did about 6 months ago.

Im really angry at dd. This probably isn't fair of me but its how i feel. I've carried a secret for dd for about 3years,a secret she's kept from all the rest of her family. I would never ever betray dd. I had a mc 2 days before her 21st. We didn't alter any plans due to the mc. Everything went as dd wanted. She never even asked if i was ok. She doesn't pay rent. She doesn't do any housework. She never helps with the younger dc.

I've done a mightly shit job with her. Shes very successful but one spoilt princess.

I want her out of the house if Im honest but i won't do that as Im her parent, the so called responsible one... How do i move on from this? am i the one who's actually out of order by having another baby?

Dd has betrayed my trust by telling this person & well she knows it but i need to get over it, how do i do that? should i forgive her?

Any advice appreciated as my mind is really confused!!

Sounds like she's got a lot of unresolved issues around her dad your your dp. Regardless she's an adult and needs to start acting like one.

shellywelly were you born in 1973? in which case you are presumably now just just about to turn 40 or have just turned 40. That isn't very old to have a baby. BUT you must have been only 16 or so when you had your 24 year old. You have been parenting a very long time.

X posted. Ignore her rants she's acting like a toddler and wants to provoke a reaction, she's obviously resentful and coupled with an incredible sense of entitlement is throwing all her toys out of the pram. Let her cool off and calmly remind her that her horrid behaviour has consequences and if the abuse continues then you will ask her leave. No one disrespects you, even her, without consequences. Stay calm but firm.

Good luck.

I wouldnt lie my head off for mine. Truth comes first.

If they stuff up, they take the consequences.

She knows you will do whatever she wants by the sounds of things.

Agree with yellowballoons and isetan.

Basically she needs to decide whether she wants to pay £75 a week and do her chores or move out. And she has no right whatsoever to so much as imply her siblings have less of a right to be here than she does. That's horrific. Really terrible, and must hurt you so much as well.

The way she spoke to you is utterly appalling and she should apologise or consider her options, frankly. She isn't a baby. She's a good bit older than you were when you were left as a lone parent with two tiny kids, in fact. Have you ever pointed that out?

Does she have any mental health problems? She sounds outside the normal parameters by this point, tbh. 16, and maybe. 21? Uh, no.

(Obviously appreciate that her behaviour may just be awful, but did wonder if there was any history of depression or anything. Also, was her secret a termination? If so, then your pregnancies may be upsetting her. No excuse, but a possible reason.)

I was thinking back until dd was 14, she was really easy going. Basically I've always put ds& dd first.

I've always felt responsible for everything. Their dad was worse then useless. I've over compensated. Ds24 is the most easy going, laid back person I've met...even more then me!

Dd is very entitled. I've spoilt her. I've concentrated on the fact she works hard & ignored everything else. I've allowed my guilt to really mess up how I've brought her up. I've actually done her a massive injustice. I should have been firmer, made clearer boundaries & not allowed the situation to carry on.

I will tell her how i feel but i don't expect understanding or empathy. I will tell her, as of next month she needs to pay rent. I also will expect some help-(will define exactly what). Finally, what goes on in our house, stays in our house. If she doesn't like it she can leave. We're in London so i reckon she'll put up with the new rules...

In 2 years time she will be qualified & will be able to afford to do as she pleases.

Awww, I think you should tell her some of that. You recognise how hard she works, but you realise you've not been as firm as perhaps you needed to have been when it comes to boundaries. (Don't include the bits about messing up your parenting or her or whatever. I'm sure that's not true and she doesn't need the ammo).

Her secret is not a termination. Its to do with her boyfriend & where he is...
She doesn't appear to be depressed. She very intelligent but is as hard as nails & very opiniated.

Shes not emotionally immature. Just judgemental.

Very good post of 19.30pm

Thinking back to when I was 21, I couldn't have lived with my parents! You need independence, and a life of your own, and I would guess a lot of the temper is due to needing to leave and not being able to afford to.

Really, sit down with her, and say you obviously support her apprenticeship but things have to change. There is a baby coming, the other dc aren't going anywhere, and you are happy with your big family. If she is not comfortable with that, you will help her find somewhere else, but she can always come back. Stress its her decision.
When does the apprenticeship end? Do you have anyone who could be her mentor, like a trustee aunt or someone she might listen to?

If she isn't saving, she should be, and I expect she doesn't want to pay anything as it will provide for her siblings whom she seems to dislike. It can't be fun for any of you. If she won't talk, tell her she has til the end of the week to discuss with you, because like it or not, everyone else in the house has a right to be happy and feel welcome, and that includes the unborn baby.

I would make up some house rules too so it's not just dd and she can't pull the victim card.

Some of your other ones can take on chores, plus rules about being polite and kind to others etc etc.

God, your daughter sounds awful. Can't understand why you haven't told her to leave and find her own place ages ago, but it's not too late! Show her the door (with a bit of notice) and let her fend for herself. She's taking advantage of you and sounds, sorry, a nasty piece of work.

She might blame the new baby though.

Very good point RandomMess. I actually need to be more aware as the younger dc see their older sister getting away with stuff, they will expect to get away with doing sod all as well!

I'm rubbish at giving mine responsibility for doing tasks but I do ask them to do chores and complaints get a short shrift! I certainly do not wash anything not in the wash basket

I've also told my eldest that there will always be a room for her here but whoever lives here pays their way once earning. She is always happy to babysit in the evenings etc, I don't expect her to often etc. but helping each other out is expected off each other IYSWIM. Mine are 16, 11, 10 & 8.

I know alot of people think i should throw her out & earlier today i really had to resist firing her crap out of bedroom windows!!

I ended up living on my own at 17. It was horrible. Yes by the time i was 21 i had 2dc. A house, mortgaged up to my eyeballs. No dp. No supportive family, few friends &2 jobs.

I've never compared my dc to me. I didn't stay at school. I have 1GCSE & no A levels. I went to uni in my 20's to study law & worked in pubs & cleaned to pay the bills. I've never travelled like my dc have. I had few opportunities or support.

My parents weren't very interested. They aren't great now. I have very little to do with them.

Most people didn't realise i was so young when i had my older dc. I was determined to be the best parent i could be to my dc...

TBH I think that kids/young adults of 21 or thereabouts cannot be classed as "adults". Most still have a lot of growing up to do. Boys of this age I think are perhaps a bit more mature..and that's what it's all about.
I do feel for your situation. I would just give your dd1 a bit of space. You say that you've done a shit job of parenting, however you say that she is successful, so you can't have been too shitty a parent, also with your eldest at uni I'd say that you were doing a great job. I have 2 grown up dd's and it is hard. My youngest is 23 and lives at home. She works and gives me 10% of her earnings each month...I think that is fair. She does no housework, her bedroom is a tip, she can cook well but I do it all and tbh I am happy with this.
We all have secrets, and as adults we are expected to keep them...I know how angry you must feel that you were betrayed, I really don't think that your dd1 will see it that way. You do need to talk to her at some point. I would just try and concentrate on lightening the mood a bit, as impossible as it seems just get on with your normal stuff but try and involve her a little. Choose your timing and talk to her about your plans for the baby and your feelings. Remember that she has feelings too and perhaps she's feeling a bit pushed out by the prospect of a new arrival and also maybe she is worried about you.
We can never imagine what goes through the minds of our older almost adult children. The 10 year plus age gap between your dd21 and your other children is something to keep in mind.
Although this is hard for you, you are the parent and you must lead the way...Good Luck.

Honestly, she does sound spoilt. Single parent guilt is tough. But I do think house rules going forward sound a brilliant idea - you don't want to have the younger 4 emulate the sibling above them, so to speak. And if she doesn't like it, she can leave - as you live in London that seems pretty damn unlikely!

Do take care of yourself, too. You're in early pregnancy, and as a '74 kid who is as well, it's not easy! (And I thought a tricksy preschooler was hard work with morning sickness...)

I don't think you need to chuck her out on the street in a fit of rage, shelly. But I DO think she needs to know her being asked to move out is a serious possibility - one you are going to contemplate calmly, for your own health and peace of mind, unless she stops being so rude and nasty to you. it sounds like you have done a hell of a lot for your children.

I think your plan to tell her what your expectations are, and if she doesn't like them she will have to make arrangements to go, is a good one.

TBH I think that kids/young adults of 21 or thereabouts cannot be classed as "adults". Most still have a lot of growing up to do. Boys of this age I think are perhaps a bit more mature..and that's what it's all about.
I do feel for your situation. I would just give your dd1 a bit of space. You say that you've done a shit job of parenting, however you say that she is successful, so you can't have been too shitty a parent, also with your eldest at uni I'd say that you were doing a great job. I have 2 grown up dd's and it is hard. My youngest is 23 and lives at home. She works and gives me 10% of her earnings each month...I think that is fair. She does no housework, her bedroom is a tip, she can cook well but I do it all and tbh I am happy with this.
We all have secrets, and as adults we are expected to keep them...I know how angry you must feel that you were betrayed, I really don't think that your dd1 will see it that way. You do need to talk to her at some point. I would just try and concentrate on lightening the mood a bit, as impossible as it seems just get on with your normal stuff but try and involve her a little. Choose your timing and talk to her about your plans for the baby and your feelings. Remember that she has feelings too and perhaps she's feeling a bit pushed out by the prospect of a new arrival and also maybe she is worried about you.
We can never imagine what goes through the minds of our older almost adult children. The 10 year plus age gap between your dd21 and your other children is something to keep in mind.
Although this is hard for you, you are the parent and you must lead the way...Good Luck.

I think if you kicked her out she would just use it to justify her victim/hard done mentality. Def best to change the house rules and give her the option of shaping up or shipping out.

As for treating people in their early 20's as non-adults, erm can't think why we have such work shyness in the UK from some people! 50 years ago if you didnt leave school and work you got nothing, you went out to work, you paid your parents board because you know what that is real life.

Randonmess...FYI my dd2 is educated and definitely not work shy. She works exceptionally hard. Also are we not supposed to make things easier for our children...the world has changed from 50 years ago.

Well unless you hadn't noticed for the working class with the change in economy that is the way it is heading back.

If your educated and not work shy and over 19 why one earth are you not considered an adult?

I was making a general comment on the way it has become the norm for some people to "baby" their older teen and adult dc...

It's about independence. They simply can't afford to be independent because there are either no jobs, or the jobs there are, don't pay sufficiently to enable any sort of independence. Or they are students when independence isn't really achievable either.

It's not their fault. It's hard on them too. It's very hard on the parents.