"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's August 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

good point.

I'll wait till June. Dad always dates his the 25th Dec. that always bugged me, no chance of me every using it to help out with the big day itself.

I like to think that by June they will have stopped watching for it to be paid so won't have that feed.

Attila - no i really don't think my husband is like my mum. My ex who i was with for 8 years - definately! But not DH. I love him and he makes me very happy. He can be lazy and moody at times, but so can i. I guess i am hyper aware of anything that seems as though he is more important than me/ he doesn't love or value me. I honestly don't know at times whether it is me being over sensitive or him being a bit entitled, though i suspect it is a bit of both. I just feel that i will never be completely happy in any relationship, even a good one, because i am always going to be damaged goods.

"damaged goods" is a strong and not very kind-to-yourself way to put it.

"scarred" may be more accurate, and show me the person who's really lived who doesnt have some scars.

MMM,

I would agree with Meerka here; you are NOT damaged goods at all (please do not put yourself down like that) as much as scarred.

I would say that his laziness and moodiness is his responsibility, not yours to either own or carry for him.

Thanks guys, maybe scarred is a less negative view, just on a real downer today so perhaps i'm not wording things in the best way.

Attilla - how does his laziness/ moodiness being his responsibility play out in real life? I'm not sure what you mean? Do i ignore/ challenge it/ something else?

Hi MMM,

Re this part of your comment:-
"He can be lazy and moody at times, but so can I".

Am sure you can be lazy at times but then again we all are. Do you feel that because you can be lazy at times this is okay for him to actually be like this as well?. My guess is that you work a damn sight harder than he does in all aspects of life.

I'll have a read of your other thread and give it some thought.

Have things really at all changed since the middle of this year MMM?.
I have read some of your previous writings hence me asking.

Kikiliki, do you have any idea of some small steps you might be able to take? Something that might ease some of the feelings of drudgery for a bit? I'm just concerned that if it keeps going the way it has so far, you'll feel terribly resentful of it all.

I do feel pretty resentful to be honest. I'm just worn out more than anything.

So after declaring there was no point contacting me again my parents have sent the dcs a joint Christmas card with the disliked gc 's name first . They also included £15 each in gift cards. No mention of me or dh. No card They would normally spend about £50 each on dcs. Why do they think they can treat us all badly and still get a relationship with my dcs. They were awful parents to me. No apology . I don't know how to feel . It is not about the amount of money just that. My dad wrote it. he never writes cards or sends joint for dcs. Why do they think they can have access to my dcs when they need protection from all their toxic bs .

My mum's friend's dh French kissed me when I was about 7. When I told them as an adult they said they wondered why I avoided him . They had wondered what was wrong . That he was probably drunk and he always had a soft spot for me. No sh*t! That isn't normal is it?

Hi spanky they may think they have access to your dcs but a card and money are way of the mark in relation to them having contact. Don't allow them contact just because they sent a card & a bit of money.
You could always send it back, or give to charity?
I don't think it's a good thing either, children recieving gifts from toxic people as kids are pretty mercenary & may think their gps are the best since sliced bread when it's better for kids to know the truth.

Hi spanky they may think they have access to your dcs but a card and money are way of the mark in relation to them having contact. Don't allow them contact just because they sent a card & a bit of money.
You could always send it back, or give to charity?
I don't think it's a good thing either, children recieving gifts from toxic people as kids are pretty mercenary & may think their gps are the best since sliced bread when it's better for kids to know the truth, even if just part of it told in an age appropriate way.

My eldest 2 know their gps on my dhs side are dangerous & bad to be left alone with. My younger 2 haven't seen them for a year & know no different.

Thank you pumpkinsweetie. Sad that they are like it. There is a discussion between my head and heart . I know why they are like it but my heart wishes it was different and that they love me even though I know they are unable to.

Attila - yes things have changed. This has been our first row for months. Partially i am less stressed form being NC with mum and less depressed so suppose a bit easier to get on with/ less likely to blow up. He has responded to this by making more of an effort to spend quality time together and doing a bit more around the house. Still an ongoing process but it's a step in the right direction.

Spanky - sorry about what happened to you when you were seven. The adult you disclosed to let you down badly by not being more supportive. As for the money, i would give it to charity and bin the card

Spanky, I'd either give the money to charity (as Milly suggested) or put it into an account if you have one (a child trust fund?) for your DCs that they can access when they are 18. That way it benefits your DC at some point but it's not as if they will have bought them something you will be looking at and watching them play with in the immediate future. And yes, that is an outrageous response from your parents to try to excuse what their friend did - which was in no way normal or excusable.

Milly so who makes the first move after a row like this? Does it vary or do you have to smooth it all over? Rows can sometimes be almost unavoidable but it's how you deal with the aftermath that can make the difference.

Oh, and I meant to say to Hissy, about the cheques. I wouldn't worry too much date wise. I once worked for a major high street bank on verifying cheques for them - below a certain amount it was an entirely mechanised process and the date on the cheque didn't get looked at. Of course I couldn't say where the cutoff was but I think it's likely that £50 would get through OK . Pay it in in one of those envelopes in branch, so a zealous branch member is less likely to see it, and even if it's after 6 months I think there's a good chance of it being credited.

Mellow - it tends to be DH that makes the first move. I tend to be quite stubborn/ sulky/ on occasion so mortified at my behaviour that i keep out of the way for the next day or too... God, i have big issues don't I?

Not so big as someone who wasn't even aware of any... I think the thing is that if you are rowing less often then that's progress.

Fecking christmas fecking service.

All about 'the true meaning of christmas'

Families and the importance of sharing time...

Shame no bugger thought to sent the memo to my lot..

Pisses me off actually, not everyone has family, some find the whole time of year flipping hard.

I vote we ban religion, just cos...

And we ban mother's day and father's day and make one day Parent's Day.

You qualify by giving a shit, clearing up that shit and being the best damned parent you can be, because your child IS worth that.

Hello, can anyone advise me re counselling? Is it expensive?
Reading this thread has brought back a lot of memories about my childhood. Not really sure how to deal with it.

Main thing? Counselling is utterly worth it, if you find the therapist for you.

BACP (I think) can help you find counsellors near you, and some are charged on affordability.

Thanks Hissy

I would also suggest BACP to you RadioSilenceGirl. Counsellors though are like shoes, you need to find someone who fits.

Hissy, I would also agree with every word of your post re the Christmas service. My ILs never received that memo either and many people find things tough at Christmas for many reasons. I also do and now go on holiday over the festive period. A female relation is being summoned by her own family to attend a Christmas lunch at her son's neighbour's house even though she does not want to attend and has a myriad of health problems. All that is ignored by the invitees however because they want to look good, grrrr.

Oh lordy, does that woman ever stop!
Another text for dh yesterday evening "you still haven't phoned me son :("
For the love of god why does she insist he phones her, to inject a bit of festive toxicity i suspect and why does she have to add "son" to the end of each one. I seriously want to ring her neck

He is doing well by so far ignoring her though!! I asked him about the PAYG mobile and it seems he isn't ready for that either. Oh well atleast i tried....

Re councilling, i hope one day dh considers it, i think it would do him the world of good if he took the plunge.

Hissy i know how what you mean, about "mothers day", "fathers day" etc. It's a complete shitty day for those that don't have their mum or has toxic parents that don't warrant a day for celebration! Each and every year i sit back and watch the carcrash in relation to dh's parents harping on about what gift they want or didn't get, or the tears & tantrums that also elvolve if he dare spends mothers day with me
Birthdays the same shit of "woh is me too"

It seems they all follow the same orchestra, these toxics, it would be funny if it wasn't so dire