When does jealousy become a MH issue?

[opalescent]

So much has happened, but I don't have the energy to give a full overview, but here are the bare bones.
Dp suffers with extreme jealousy, and I have a feeling that it has been a feature of his previous relationships too. He particularly obsesses over the past (as in, my previous partners etc.), and gets into terrible vile moods on a regular basis, where he makes the house environment unbearable. Generally these moods will culminate in a huge row, where I tell him how untenable this is, threaten to leave, and he becomes remorseful, we make up, and things return to (an uneasy) normality.
His jealousy creeps into all aspects of our life, and when I think about it, I have modified my life in so many ways to fit around it. I'm frightened of the future, and feel stifled.
I don't know who I am anymore, I feel full of self doubt.
Aside for this issue, we are incredibly close and intimate. He is a committed and supportive partner, and a lovely dad to our baby.
He's had counselling. It helped at the time, then wore off.
He can be nasty and verbally abusive when he's in the grip of an 'episode'.
I've lost all my confidence.
We are so financially entwined :(
I don't know what to do, but would appreciate your thoughts...

Opal he was not having 'an episode'. This is how he is and what you see is him just not bothering to keep up the front. He cannot be fixed, he chooses to be like this because he really hates women and therefore resents you. There is no love here, just possession.

I just wanted to say that on some levels I think (ashamedly) that I am the female version of OP's P. With my last ex, and actually from my first proper boyfriend, I've had horrible feelings like this, about their past partners. It was worst with my last ex, but I'm not sure if that is because he spent a lot some time talking a lot about his past conquests, or because of how he treated some of them, but I would get intrusive images, get it in my head that he had liked them more(Which obviously was a self-fulfilling prophecy even though he'd dumped them at the time for various reasons) - I wrote a whole thread about how awful I still feel. I had therapy, medication... I don't know to this day what caused it.
Under normal circumstances I've been told I'm giving, loving, caring- I don't think that's just a front I put on to the world.

 However OP I don't think <span class="italic">you</span> can 'fix' this/him, and it's no life for you worrying when his brain is next going to click and decide he hates you for what you can't change (your past).

That post was long .. Sorry for the hijack. I may start my own thread because I still really need help/ insight into this problem of my own.

Hi opalescent...sounds like things are not going well at the moment. Someone once wrote here " when a person shows you who they are, believe them". I think your DP has many issues including power and control. His behaviour, his issues, are his and his alone. You can choose your own response to him. You and your baby deserve to live in a safe, peaceful atmosphere.

A bit late to this thread.

I know its anecdotal but between myself and my peer group (men and women) I have never seen a relationship that involves one jealous partner survive. Jealousy is a hugely destructive and toxic emotion when it consumes someone entirely. My ex was an insanely jealous women, it was not apparent at first, but slowly started to make its presence felt the more emotionally involved we became. At first I cut her a fair bit of slack as I discovered a previous partner had cheated on her so I allowed that it may take a bit longer for her to invest full trust in the relationship. Sadly that trust never materialised, not because my behavior was suspect, but she just could not accept the fact that I had female friends, worked with some women, had two sisters or on occasion would occupy the same room as random women (i.e. the pub). I eventually ended the relationship as it eventually dawned on me that despite her apologies and promises she would never change and I was at the end of my tether in terms of her irrational accusations, shite behaviour and general paranoia. During my time with her it was me having to modify aspects of my life to accommodate her jealousy. By this I mean slowly withdrawing contact from my female friends, not going to certain venues, turning down invites to parties/dinners etc Of course this was not a conscious decision, you unwittingly find yourself drifting away from certain social situations because they would be the triggers that would set her off. It got to the absurd point where I would lie to her with regards to people I had met up with down the pub, it was not that anything was going on, it was just that the moment she found out that another women was present at whatever social engagement I had been at I would get 50 questions about said women and a full interrogation as to my relationship with her, I simply could not be bothered in the end so I lied instead. Finally after she went nuclear because I had the audacity to meet up with some old uni mates, some of whom were women, I decided to leave for good. It was then that I realised that I had treated some of my female friends appallingly as a result of lengths I would go to not to upset my ex.

Jealous people will always apologise and promise to modify/seek help with their issues when they realise they may have pushed you away, but they always revert back to type at the drop of a hat. You deserve better, move on, his jealousy issues will end up consuming you as well as him.

No, not JS leverette. That would have been a crazy coincidence.
My best friends and family are fully aware of how critical things have become, and are urging me to take action. luckily i have been able to confide in them all the way through, so they know the full picture. that makes me feel quite safe in a strange way. I don't want to lose my home & security, but I know now that I need to protect my baby from the toxic situation I'm in.

I'm very grateful to everyone who is taking the time to post their thoughts and experiences. It's helping a lot.

And secretswitch, that's a very important point, and one that I have read on mumsnet many times. He has told me who he is. And I've chosen not to hear it until now.

Awww..opalescent..we are here to support you in whatever way you need. I know how easy it is for me as an anonymous poster to freely give my advice. You are dealing with a very difficult RL issue. I just want you and your darling baby to know your options, and live safely and happily..

I think CuChullain has given a candid snapshot of his life with a jealous, controlling person. A controlling person will resort to all sorts of promises and threats to keep their victims close.

My first husband was like that. I never gave him cause for jealousy but among other things, he put a dictaphone in my glove compartment when I went to the cinema with friends & recorded our conversation. When I got back he pretended to go to get something from the garage & sat listening to the recording. We had all joked about how lush Brad Pitt was & he got all the "evidence" he needed & came in, smashed the place up & held me up against the wall with his hands round my throat.

In the end I left with my small DSs to start a new life & divorced him.

He still hates me after 15 years for leaving him. Men like him never change. I think it will only get worse if & when you become more independent as your baby gets older as it was when I reentered the workplace/education that he couldn't tolerate it or trust me.

I don't want to lose my home & security, but I know now that I need to protect my baby from the toxic situation I'm in.

Opal that security you think you have, it's an illusion. He keeps you close, worries about your safety, doesn't want you to go there, talk to this person here as he has your best interests at heart. He loves you so much, and can't bear to think of you with anyone else right? Wrong. You are a sitting in a gilded cage. He has indeed shown you who he is, believe it. The security you seek is that which you will make for yourself and your baby away from this man.

Op, I once had a partner who behaved the same way as you describe yours behaving.

I went from being a very sociable outgoing person to becoming a shadow of my formal self.

My relationships with my friends broke down and I lost a few friends due to being to afraid to meet up with them as I couldn't bear the interrogation I'd receive afterwards.

I couldn't even visit my sister as I'd be interrogated and verbally abused once I returned.

He didn't live with me (luckily) and I'd even be too afraid to go to bed early on a night as if he rung and I didn't answer I'd be accused of having another man round.

I had to ring him and tell him I'd be going to be because I was tired and even then he'd question me and not believe me.

He spat in my face once because a friend messaged me on Facebook and asked me to meet up with her to go for a drink!!

I was called a slag, a slut and a whore on a regular basis, when I'd done nothing wrong.

I got used to staring at the floor when I was out with him as if I even glanced at another person he'd accuse me of wanting to sleep with them.

The interrogations would go on for hours, with him asking me the same questions repeatedly as though he was trying to trip me up or something. However he couldn't trip me up because I'd never done anything. I was 100% faithful towards him and didn't have any interest in any other man.

When he'd finished questioning me he'd tell me I was lying and that I was a slag and a slut.

He'd watch through my window late on a night when I was on Mumsnet and tell me he'd seen me messaging/skyping other men.

It never ended and I know emotionally how hard it is to keep being interrogated and accused of being something you're not.

I ended the relationship and he was very abusive at first. He sent me a lot of texts calling me every name under the sun and saying that I must have met someone else. He simply couldn't comprehend that the reason I ended it was because of his extreme jealousy.

I am so happy I left. Since leaving him I've slowly rebuilt my social life and I can now invite people round for dinner or visit people without being afraid.

I can now go on nights out with my friends, I've even applied for and been accepted for a job I really wanted to do- something I couldn't have done when I was with him as he was too jealous.

He won't change op and like others say it doesn't matter one iota whether he's that way because he's mentally ill. What matters is your health and happiness.

I can recommend the Lundy Bancroft book "Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds of Angry & Controlling Men". Lundy worked with perpetrators of Domestic Abuse (extreme jealousy & the subsequent backlash is emotional abuse) for many years. He said not one of them had a mental illness. They were ALL choosing to behave that way. After all, they don't treat everyone in their lives that way do they? They are able to control themselves in other situations such as at work or in front of certain people. Don't let him use mental illness as an excuse.

Wrt to the question of whether it's a mh issue, it could be related. A colleague of mine worked with a psychotically jealous client ( a woman iirc). She was completely 'normal' on all levels and held down a good job etc but had this all encompassing obsession that her dh was cheating on her and had bugged the house, had him followed, all sorts. Just totally, scarily irrational. Poor bloke was at his wits end with her.

There was some discussion about whether she had a paranoid personality disorder but as it only centred on this one area of her life she didn't meet criteria for that. As someone upthread mentioned, there is Othello Syndrome which is a very rare delusional disorder with a very high risk associated.

I really think this man could be dangerous and would strongly advise that you take steps to protect yourself when you do leave him. Speak to his GP, womens aid and maybe even call the police 101 and ask to nspeak to the DV unit. You will be so much happier when he's gone. Good luck xx

This is painful to read because it's going somewhere very horrible.

He's got 'issues' but not MH ones.

Of course he's nice 'normally'. You wouldn't stay with him anyway.

He's manipulated you/ground you down so you take him back....again.

I hope this thread has given you some more insight into what you're dealing with. Good luck

Even if this is a mental health issue, he's got to want to change it (even psychotics have non-psychotic periods in which they can decide to do something about it).

He doesn't seem to think there is anything wrong with treating you like this.

Leave. First of all, for your own good and for that of your child. And secondly, if there is any possibility of pushing him towards seeing what he is doing clearly, that is the only way. He's got to face the consequences of his acts. Harshly.

OP I'm worried for you either staying with him, or even during the leaving process. You need to get out of the situation completely or have good people around you. This jealousy has overtaken him. It is him.

Oh and don't forget, modifying your behavior won't change how he behaves. He's the one in control here so there isn't anything you can do to change this pattern besides getting away from it.

I'm feeling a bit like I don't know what to do next. Things have calmed down, in the sense that he is being 'nice' and 'remorseful'. He is at home, but staying in the spare room. He's suggesting that things can be fixed between us, and that he will prove himself to be good again. I feel nothing towards him at the moment.

When he is calm, do you think he can see that he is completely irrational when he is having an episode? I still think you should leave by the way. You are not responsible for another adult's mental health. You have to think of him as choosing to behave like this - as he is not making any attempt to get help for himself. www.choicetheory.com/ct.htm

He seems to be in a strange sort of denial at the moment. Keeps reassuring me that everything will be fine, and that we can fix things 'together'. I think he knows its different this time, and sort of has his head in the sand.

Why is it different this time?

Because I feel far less inclined to try and smooth everything over. It's different because I can't see a way forward for us now, whereas before I was always desperate for things to 'get back to normal'. I'm just not sure how to move from where we are, to us being properly over.

opal, you sound as if you've just had as much as you can take. If the same thing keeps happening over and over again, it just becomes wearing. I think you know that he's never going to change and he's realising that you know.