Counselling nightmare (& lundy bancroft's book)

[Heather2013]

I posted a week or two ago about a tough situation with my partner. We've been going to counselling for about 4 months. Counsellor believes him that I am over-powering, constantly nagging him and dictating to him (gross exagerration / lies). She says that his opinion is as true as my opinion, or else i am disrespecting him. Anyway, I have been asked to modify the way I ask him to help, which I have done well, and have found that rather than him responding enthusiastically, he nit-picks everything i say. EG: me: "Are you ok?" him: "I know what you mean by that", me: "Can you put baby's bib on please?" (after he didn't do it first time) him: "you don't have repeat yourself, i'm going to do it" me"sorry, I thought you'd forgotton" him "too late, the damage is done".
The counsellor cross-examines me, and makes me feel stupid (told me to look up "disrespectful" and "hurtful" in the dictionary because I thought they were more or less the same.)
I was too scared to mention Lundy Bancroft's book because she is such a clever clogs and I know she will tear me to shreds. When I showed the book to partner his reply was that I am the female version of that, and that he could pick up "Mein Kampf" and say it was true.
This counselling was the last chance saloon and although I don't blame her personally, because of the style of counselling our relationship is now properly hitting the wall. I didn't think there was domestic abuse to start with, but then it came up because of the angry violent episodes during which partner has put fist through wall, thrown numerous pieces of crockery and lashed out at anything and everything. Immediately after he did these things, he comes to me (still angry) and says he is sorry for doing that but i have to take responsibility for making him do it by provoking him. I didn't feel I wanted to apologise under these terms, and was always so upset at the damage that I didn't see how it was my fault. The counsellors only response to the domestic abuse situation is that we have to consider if there is a future in the relationship. She's right about that, but at no point has she confirmed to partner that it is well out of order to be violent, aggressive, frequently angry and demanding. He thinks he is a top guy, all loving and caring, and that I am a mental controlling B*tch.!
Mumsnetters replied to my last post by saying to stop going to the counsellor, and i totally admire the forthright decisiveness you guys have. I felt if I said I wasn't going back to her - well it just looks like I don't like what she's saying and am a bad loser. I thought it would get better. I thought she would stop focusing on me and start working on his anger. I honestly can't believe that in this day and age these practices are legitimate!
After reading Lundy Bancroft's book, it rings so many bells. I can't go back now, to apologising for his angry outbursts.
Partner is now packing bags. How do I explain to 3 year old. her birthday next week and I am a mess. Please help but please be gentle.

To start with I thought she was just being personable, or may have a good insight to problems, as she said she'd been through counselling with her husband. that is just a small bit about what she has said - any more and she could probably be quite easily identified. (which I'm sure could get me in trouble!)

Mummytime? Have you got that link again? or just the url?

I'm definitely not interested in anything legal - I just want to be informed before I make an idoit of myself!
x

www.hlwkeeblehawson.co.uk/Individuals/Professional-Abuse/Negligence-by-Psychotherapists-and-Counsellors.aspx

How the hell can he be 'very violent' but not abusive? WTAF? Don't get that at all. If this is how she thinks, then she is one seriously mixed up person and is having what I think is known as transference problems. She has accepted/constructed this bizarre sounding 'fact' about her H and is projecting her feelings on to your situation.

Not only does she sound bang out of order, she actually sounds a bit deranged. If her own husband is violent and abusive, then perhaps that is the reason why she has sided in this monstrous way with your H.

His behaviour is vile, and all that stuff about telling you how you should talk etc is very nasty. He is provoking you and trying to get you to be 'rude' to him, because the main thing for him is to keep you firmly in your place, ie, in the wrong. Nasty, nasty man. Goading fucker.

I can completely see how the 'counselling' has made things so much worse.

She responds to him in a placating/submissive way because that is how she has been with her husband....sort of thing? Something in her recognises he is an abuser and she responds as she would to her own abuser... she is too frightened to challenge your husband. But she is not too frightened to challenge you, thus ingratiating herself with the bully....

Fuck, it is twisted.

1. Is is a definite guideline not to continue counselling in the event of abuse?

I don't know what are the guidelines of your organisation, but a friend of mine works for Relate, and he has told me that they screen for dv/a, & if there is any apparent: a) the couple can't do couples' counselling & b) they pass them on to people who are trained to deal with dv/a. Relate counsellors have no training for dv/a.

I should say that he is family friend, recently retired, and he is ambivalent about his training as it only took a year, from which you may infer that it is not very thorough.

2. Talking about her own relationship, her own husband is "very violent" but not "abusive". Much other personal information.

I do know that any trained psychotherapist/psychologist should never talk about themselves in a therapy setting.

Quite apart from the question of what 'very violent' but not 'abusive'
means. If that is a current relationship it sounds as if she should not be doing this at all. She seems to have a warped idea of what abusive means.

3. Giving an assessment that abuse is on both sides - apparently this is very rare and not how abuse dynamics work but I'd like to know that this is recognised fact? Is it in LUndy bancroft?

I've no idea, I'm no expert & someone on here with personal experience of dv might know. All I can say is that a book I am currently reading called 'The Typology of Domestic Violence' by Michael Johnson, which I have been told is well-regarded, differentiates between 'intimate terrorism' which is one-sided abuse, and 'situational violence' which is on both sides.

Johnson argues that: "domestic violence is not a unitary phenomenon". Instead, he delineates three major forms of partner violence: 'intimate terrorism', 'violent resistance', and 'situational couple violence'.

He bases the conceptual distinctions according to the forms of violence, in an analysis of the role of power and control in the relationship.

'Intimate terrorism' is the abuser-victim relationship dynamic; 'violent resistance' is where the victim of abuse is sometimes physically defiant to the abuser; 'situational violence' is where both partners are abusers.

The book claims that 'situational violence' is the least common form which corroborates your impression (indeed you might try reading the book). I have not read Lundy Bancroft.

Just looking on a regional Relate website, this is what they say about domestic violence:

Is counselling an appropriate form of help?...

When a person is being hurt or threatened by their partner or is afraid for their safety and their children's safety, counselling them with their partner is not safe. The counselling process may itself precipitate further abuse. Our priority is to:-

?Increase the safety of victim/survivors and their children
?Prevent domestic violence occurring/re-occurring.
?Help abusers to be accountable for their abusive behaviour.

People who have been abusive or violent to their partners ask Relate to help them stop. Relate encourages their motivation to change, however Relationship Counselling may not be an appropriate form of help at this stage. We help people to connect with a specialist agency through Respect (see useful phone numbers below).

In what circumstances can Relate help?...

Early intervention

When a couple tell us there has been some abusive or violent act and asks us to help them, we make a careful assessment in order to check whether we can offer them a service or not. The assessment looks at the following areas which will help us and them decide whether we are the right agency to support them:

?Does the perpetrator fully accept the responsibility for their action?
?Are they motivated to change?
?Does their partner really want to accompany them in this work?
?Is it viable to make a realistic safety plan to allow us to work with the couple?
?When there are two people, are we able to offer a service to both partners or just one person.
?Each person is assessed on an individual basis.

The outcome of some assessments will show that we cannot offer a service yet but may be able to in the future, when the person concerned has had more specialist support. The counsellor will make recommendations about where specialist support will be sought.

Bridging to safety

Many people suffering abuse do not know if what is happening to them is normal, they think it is something that just happens in relationships.

Their Relate counsellor will help them see that what is happening is not normal or acceptable and help them to take action to increase their safety.

Relate provides a place where someone who is in a dangerous relationship:

?Can tell what is happening to them
?Will be heard and believed and
?Will then be supported and helped to connect with the resources they need

www.relate-nottingham.org.uk/about/domestic-violence/

Scarlet - thank you, I've written in my complaint that a lot of the things she has said about her own life has bothered and distressed me. There is lots more weird shit about her but I am a bit scared of making her too easy to identify. I work with the public and it's pretty obvious that you don't blab about your personal life except for really innocuous stuff.
Just feel unlucky that I came across her, had hopes up so high that counselling would be a magic wand!
x

Twinklestein - thank you very much for your detailed reply. (Do you read this sort of thing for fun?!! - just kidding)
I've done a wee bit of research on the web and I had no idea how complicated it is! I can see it is likely that the counsellor will claim that we have a mutual kind of violence such as Common Couple Violence. But I think there is more too it than that. I am erring towards Patriarchal Violence. If I really think there is a element of him controlling me - so I shut up and get on with the cooking and cleaning, so I dare not ask him or expect him to help except on his terms, so I celebrate any tiny thing he does, so he stays like the spoiled little boy who needs to do whatever he wants without considering family repercussions, so I DARE not mention his family, or his weaknesses, and so that I learn to stoop and grovel to my lord and master. Bugger that!

The reason I don't think it is "situational violence" is that I believe that there is a control element (though it's not really obvious), and it's not just arguments alone that brings it on. Partner can get very aggressive if I mention something that I shouldn't. And the aftermath of the argument / violent episode is usually him saying "sorry - but you provoked me so you must take 50% of responsibility." Which really bugs me!

CCV & PV were identified by Michael Johnson whose book I referenced. 'Patriarchal violence' is analogous to 'intimate terrorism'. CCV would require that you had outbursts of violence yourself, which you clearly haven't.

To quote from Johnson's book:

"Male privilege may be used as a form of control. "I am the man of the house, the head of the household, king of the castle." Of course this male privilege can cover everything. As the man of the house his word is law. He doesn't have to explain. She doesn't disagree with him. She is to do his bidding without question. An she doesn't talk back...

"Related to this emotional abuse is minimising or denying his own abuse, & blaming her for what is going on in the relationship. It's her crazy behaviour or incompetence that requires him to control her, in her own best interests. How could she see him as abusive? He's never really hurt her...

"If she resists, intimidate her. Show her what might happen if she doesn't behave. Scream at her. Swear at her. Let her see his rage. Smash things. Or threaten her.

"The abuser builds a 'web of abuse'. He entraps & enslaves his partner. If she manages to thwart one means of control there are others at his disposal. She is ensnared by multiple strands..."

(Why am I reading this? I'm sort of thinking of retraining as a psychotherapist myself - not marriage guidance, because the training just seems inadequate )

It really doesn't matter what your counsellor would claim - she's not in the relationship, she apparently has her own considerable issues, and she did not follow the correct guidelines when dealing with you & your H.
Moreover she sounds barmy.

Anyways, that's all I can really offer. There will be people on here who've been in abusive relationships themselves & will have read far more widely than I, so they would be much more reliable source of info.

Excellent! i think the PV sounds right, and thanks so much for typing all that in! Another thing that makes me think that is that he is very often angry, and he can lash out without there being much in the way of a build-up of arguing. Like if I just mention something, he might kick the couch and be really angry (and it's really nothing.) It's not equal, and it's not just a one-off in the heat of the moment. He is always ready to lose his temper with me. And he will say something like "All you ever do is offend my family", so he really is against me all the time - rather than being very loving with the occasional blow-out.
Anyway, regardless if she thought it was CCV, she should have stopped things on identifying the abuse and been a bit more sensitive than to insist her template was adhered to. And the questionnaire wasn't really that in-depth. EG (on the subject of actual violence) she asked what is the worst thing he did?, when did it happen? how often is it? And I was left feeling that there was quite a bit I didn't tell her because it didn't come up in her questions.
Anyway - this sounds like an ideal place to learn about relationship problems and abuse - there seems plenty of us desperate housewifes. Good luck - I feel heartened that a professional in the area will be better at spotting a dickhead than the counsellor I've had. I know you see a lot of them in this forum, but it really makes me wonder if there's an epidemic in domestic abuse. Are there even enough lovely respectful men to go round?

I meant that EA/DV is an issue

I am so sorry your counsellor is so bloody pants. I am pleased to see you are complaining

GOOD LUCK, and go solo OP xxxx

Just as an aside, if she is a psychologist rather than a counsellor/psychotherapist she may not have had to undergo personal therapy herself. It is a course requirement of the latter but not the former. Used to be but budget for it has been cut from DClinPsych programmes. Now they are encouraged to pay for their own and many don't. I know, bonkers right?!

Shes a psychologist but obviously here she's working as a counsellor, so surely rules should still apply. She has lots of credentials and letters of prof associations. I'll see how i get on with this complaint. It's taken hours but through doing it I have got more and more disgusted with both partner and the counsellor. Fantasising about some massive letter of apology!

Hold on to that feeling of disgust - it will help you take ACTION!

Best of luck