Counselling nightmare (& lundy bancroft's book)

[Heather2013]

I posted a week or two ago about a tough situation with my partner. We've been going to counselling for about 4 months. Counsellor believes him that I am over-powering, constantly nagging him and dictating to him (gross exagerration / lies). She says that his opinion is as true as my opinion, or else i am disrespecting him. Anyway, I have been asked to modify the way I ask him to help, which I have done well, and have found that rather than him responding enthusiastically, he nit-picks everything i say. EG: me: "Are you ok?" him: "I know what you mean by that", me: "Can you put baby's bib on please?" (after he didn't do it first time) him: "you don't have repeat yourself, i'm going to do it" me"sorry, I thought you'd forgotton" him "too late, the damage is done".
The counsellor cross-examines me, and makes me feel stupid (told me to look up "disrespectful" and "hurtful" in the dictionary because I thought they were more or less the same.)
I was too scared to mention Lundy Bancroft's book because she is such a clever clogs and I know she will tear me to shreds. When I showed the book to partner his reply was that I am the female version of that, and that he could pick up "Mein Kampf" and say it was true.
This counselling was the last chance saloon and although I don't blame her personally, because of the style of counselling our relationship is now properly hitting the wall. I didn't think there was domestic abuse to start with, but then it came up because of the angry violent episodes during which partner has put fist through wall, thrown numerous pieces of crockery and lashed out at anything and everything. Immediately after he did these things, he comes to me (still angry) and says he is sorry for doing that but i have to take responsibility for making him do it by provoking him. I didn't feel I wanted to apologise under these terms, and was always so upset at the damage that I didn't see how it was my fault. The counsellors only response to the domestic abuse situation is that we have to consider if there is a future in the relationship. She's right about that, but at no point has she confirmed to partner that it is well out of order to be violent, aggressive, frequently angry and demanding. He thinks he is a top guy, all loving and caring, and that I am a mental controlling B*tch.!
Mumsnetters replied to my last post by saying to stop going to the counsellor, and i totally admire the forthright decisiveness you guys have. I felt if I said I wasn't going back to her - well it just looks like I don't like what she's saying and am a bad loser. I thought it would get better. I thought she would stop focusing on me and start working on his anger. I honestly can't believe that in this day and age these practices are legitimate!
After reading Lundy Bancroft's book, it rings so many bells. I can't go back now, to apologising for his angry outbursts.
Partner is now packing bags. How do I explain to 3 year old. her birthday next week and I am a mess. Please help but please be gentle.

Fantastic news that he's leaving. Your DD will not have to grow up in a poisoned atmosphere. She'll not grow up believing that this is what love and marriage looks like.

This sounds so familiar. Something very similar happened to me, and it seemed that she had decided early on that my very charming abuser was the poor put-upon nagged husband. Even when in the final session I described when my STBXH had assaulted me (and he didn't deny it), she said nothing to him. She didn't describe it as assault, or abuse, and drew a line under it because apparently he had since stopped drinking and it had happened months ago and there had been no violence since. Unless you count the things he smashed around the house which she didn't count...

It was incredibly damaging to me and took me a few years and a few more assaults of various kinds to realise that it was a big deal; it wasn't all my fault, and I didn't have to suck it up. He still uses the things she said as a stick to beat me.

This is why Relate don't deal with couples where there is a history of abuse. It only causes more problems, and the dynamics of abuse and the power imbalance mean that you'll never get a fair hearing in a counseling session.

Hold your head high. You tried to fix this, at great cost to yourself. You can never fix someone else, though.

It isn't recommended, in cases where there is domestic abuse of any kind, that joint counselling is undertaken at all. The reason being that the power-balance in an abusive relationship is far too skewed and joint counselling requires everyone engages as equals. Abusive people are often highly manipulative and persuasive and they will use the sessions simply as a platform to make themselves look the innocent party. They are not engaging in counselling in order to learn, understand or change, but to validate their actions and opinions and reinforce their superiority.

A good counsellor would have see straight through the charade and called a halt. A bad counsellor - and one that projects her own relationship onto others rather than remaining subjective is beyond bad - will be suckered into the act. She's been taking your money for nothing.

This man will not 'see the problem' with your relationship because he doesn't believe he has a problem. He will always be right and you will always be wrong. Individual counselling for you to work out why you are prepared to tolerate that state of affairs might help. Joint counselling will achieve nothing.

Heather one of the reasons abuse remains rife is because it's never appears to be just a case of a woman innocently minding her own business and her partner waltzing up to her and thumping her. The public persona of the abuser matters very much to them, and it is not at all uncommon for the victim to be the one that people consider unstable, angry, neurotic or "a complete bitch". Abusers are very, very good at manipulating situations to get their victims to 'snap' (especially in public).

People tend to believe what they see. They will see what fits best with their world view.

It's why the only solution is to walk away. It's not a war you can ever win.

If you have to maintain contact because of children etc, do everything in writing (email is great for this) and always remain calm and reasonable. Do not ever get drawn into a discussion when angry or upset as it will be used against you big time.

If you can spot some manipulation (e.g. asking you to do something that seems on the face of it reasonable but would involve you putting yourself out to extremes), call it straightaway in calm, measured and analytical terms, saying things like "I'm sure you wouldn't have meant to put me to such inconvenience deliberately" so that they have no option but to either withdraw the request, admit it, or be provoked into showing their true colours.

Your partner is unlikely to change. If he does it won't be because of anything you've done. Life with an abuser gets much easier when you accept that they are what they are, will never see the situation from your POV (if they were capable of doing that, they would probably not be abusive in the first place), and so you walk away as completely as possible.

Good luck.

I totally understand why you don't tell anyone, but if you were my friend/sister I'd want to know so as to be able to give you support.

But I think you also need a counsellor given the circumstances, and it were me I would go to a specialist in domestic abuse. Apart from the considerable problems with your husband I think you need look at the damage caused by your current counsellor.

If you call Women's Aid: 0808 2000 247

They will be able to advise you on da counsellors in your area.

Theregoes the year - you have taken the words out of my mouth - since Wednesday's session I have felt EXACTLY that he has been using her words as a stick to beat me. Constantly referring to what she has said to berate me.

"Partner is now packing bags. How do I explain to 3 year old. her birthday next week and I am a mess"

On this one, tell her that Dad is going to live somewhere else, you're sad at the moment, but that you love her and she's going to have a lovely birthday. I don't think a 3yo will be too distressed

I just asked partner to take a step back and consider what we have become, him now berating me for everything i say because it's not polite enough. I really hoped he would see

No, no, no, stop discussing things with him. Only speak to him if you have to. When is he moving out?
You still sound as if you are trying to persuade him to see your view. Absolute waste of time.
Facts are that he has been violent on occasions, you are separating, you will both still care for your DD, and you are moving on. Send letter about your disquiet about counsellor, maybe just list your concerns, get it posted. Then start planning your lovely, new life with DD (and only make contact with him by email or via another individual if you can).

Your daughter will follow your lead, so if you don't make it into a trauma and a tragedy, then she'll have no reason to be distressed. Just say daddy is going to live in a different house and she will see him soon. Very matter of fact and cheerful. Try not to be emotional about it in frint of her or over explain it. SHE WILL TAKE HER LEAD FROM YOU. Then go and do something nice together.

He sounds bloody awful and the counselling sounds traumatic and very unhelpful, so sorry you are going through this, but the sooner it's over the better.

Best of luck

Yeah, I'm not still discussing it with him, that was yesterday! Today it's all about keeping my mouth shut and just getting on with it. Hopefully he's moving out today, or tonight. He can go stay with his folks until he gets something sorted.
What do you think about this?:
I am considering contacting them at some point, just to say they're always welcome to see the grandchildren and I want to keep in touch with them. I might also apologise for any offence I've ever caused (partner has once said that I only ever offend them - obviously I totally disagree and believe I get on well with them ) as I don't want to fall out with them and value them as loving grandparents.

Is this a really bad idea?

*BTW - this is a bit unrelated - I really want to know who partners biological father is. Family never discuss it and partner doesn't care. I care as there is a grandparent out there who we don't know - not even name. (think was a one night stand when his mum was 17 - think he was a cop) I was planning to ask when I thought the time was right - any suggestions??? (know it's a bit nosey but feel I need to know and it won't go away!)

I don't think counsellors try to get women to stay in bad relationships but there are a lot of them that don't appreciate or recognise the dynamics of abusive relationships. I've been to 3 different counsellors with dp and only 1 was alert to the power dynamic of the relationship.

One of the other counsellors was incredibly damaging (in the way you've experienced). I wish I had thought to complain at the time.

I've since started going to counselling on my own and it's been brilliant.

I'm glad your dp is leaving.

If I were you I wouldn't apologise to your PILs. Your dp has told you that you offended them but he isn't coming from a place that's necessarily truthful.

What a lovely gift for your dd that she can have her birthday free from your abusive relationship.

To Theregoestheyear:
"She didn't describe it as assault, or abuse, and drew a line under it because apparently he had since stopped drinking and it had happened months ago and there had been no violence since. Unless you count the things he smashed around the house which she didn't count..."
I think what happened with my partner was that the first major violent outburst was punching the wall. Obviously big scene, big repercussions. I think that in the aftermath, it drove his behaviour "underground" - it was such a visible trace of violence and more than regretting the symbolism of it or how it made me feel - he regretted that there was this hole in the wall that had to be fixed and which people could see. So he thinks it was a "one-off" because he never caused so much damage again - but there was lots of smashing, bashing, kicking and banging, which was all fine because the only evidence was my witness, which he could say was exagerrated, and really all my fault anyway because of provocation.
It feels like I'm in a TV series with an awful storyline.

Don't apologise to the GP's for anything. All you have is his word that they're offended. Do say they can see her etc but this is not your fault, it's his.

Then take the opportunity of him leaving to switch off the TV... Breathe, relax, adjust, mourn what's gone, gather your strength, be with friends (and share your story so that it's not your secret). Do everything possible to keep his twisted ideas out of your life by dropping contact for everything but essentials and - even then - communicating by e-mail rather than person-to-person conversations or even text.

I think it's going to take you quite a long time to realise that he's not some damaged individual that could be fixed if only he'd understand what effect he had on you. He's a nasty piece of work and the only 'cure' for that is distance.

On GPs.... they are only ever going to side with him so don't demean yourself by either explaining or apologising.

ok - I won't attempt to explain or apologise, but I might call them and say they are still welcome in the home and to keep in touch - is that ok? I'll still do the birthday cards.

I wouldn't. Let them approach you instead. Remember that, from now on, you only allow people into your and DD's life that respect you, support you and who you actively want to be there. There are no free passes from now on.... genetic links included.

What a lovely gift for your dd that she can have her birthday free from your abusive relationship

Great, that's what I'll do! I won't call them - you're right - it probably won't go well, and they will definitely think I'm an evil witch trying to steal a house and ruin their darling boy's life!
And yes, I already decided not to talk about it with colleagues and acquaintances. I will just say that it didn't work out, and that I am sad about it but we've both been very brave to face up to it.
Thanks, mumsnet guardian angels!
x

I would not invite them round until the dust has settled and you've seen how they have responded to the split.

I would not ask at this time about the other grandparent. There is going to be some turmoil anyway, why add to this right now?

Also, some people have said that your daughter won't be bothered about her dad moving out. I'd say that might be true, but equally might not. It's typical at that age for children to become more clingy after a split and regress in their behaviours, so I think it's as well to be prepared for that.

You are really lucky that he is moving out!

x post

Yes I suppose it is "lucky". But he hasn't gone yet, he had to do an errand first before leaving for good. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I bet that he tries to make it that I kicked him out, so he can say that. But it has been decided and agreed, so hopefully not much longer to wait. Feeling much better, though. x

If he says you kicked him out the correct, cheery response is 'damn right I did, and I only wish I'd done it earlier'... :) He's going to make you out to be the bad guy so might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.

He has gone!!.... but guess what he is coming back (oh no!) He has already booked Autoglass to replace his windscreen here on Wednesday. ("And maybe we can talk") And he has taken his key, I only noticed when he was outside and suggested he leave it - he said no. I asked him to let me know when he was coming back. I can always get locks changed if needs be. I don't need a physical lock to keep him out - what I need is a really strong mental lock, which I feel I can do. I do feel so much better than I did in the morning. Being alone (a single mum) is a fear that I've begun to face up to. And it's not so bad. Better than being miserable with him.
I just have to play it carefully, because I think if he is not challenged too much then he will be quite cool about money and transferring the house over to my name. If I rattle him it will get v. acrimonious and he could potentially demand a lot - we might have to sell up.
I enquired about getting the domestic abuse questionnaire back from the counselling service. They said I can get it at the session, but they won't give it to me before then. I have also already paid for an extra session, so I am going to go there and see the paperwork (if I am going to complain then surely this may be strong evidence that she was made aware of domestic abuse but continued unwisely with a doomed strategy.) And she is a member of the BACP (among other associations) so I will put my complaint in writing. Obviously when I see her I will not mention my intention to complain about her. I will just find out as much as possible. The damage is already done and I don't think going again will upset me too much.
Wish I had a bottle of wine in the house to celebrate!

" I think if he is not challenged too much then he will be quite cool about money and transferring the house over to my name"

I'm glad he's gone but make sure that you are operating from a position of strength about this kind of thing rather than assuming that, if you're nice to him and give him the opportunity, he'll do the right thing. From what you describe, that assumption didn't work for the counselling and it could get you in the soup over the property etc if you're not careful. Like the man said... 'speak softly but carry a big stick'

Enjoy your wine, fit the bolts and tell him to have Autoglass meet him somewhere else. Good luck

In your complaint, I think you should mention that because of what he was told in counseling, he is now ten times worse.