I think I need to end my marriage to save my children but I don't think I want to...

[thinkofthemoney]

I would be really grateful for some perspective or advice or even just a few kind words!
My husband is a lovely, kind, caring man and an excellent hands on father to our children and generally a wonderful husband. I really do love him to bits.
However, he is rubbish with money. He runs his own business (badly) and over the last 10 years or so has been stacking up business debts. He is averaging about £1000 per month of credit card debt to creditors. I am certain it is not gambling or spending.
He consistently lies about his debts, intercepts the post, hides statements etc.
On at least 5 occasions I have discovered his hidden debts and he cries, hates himself, promises to get on top of things, will never do it again blah blah. I pay it off or sort out repayment plans, worry myself sick and then lo and behold a few months later I find he's done it again.
Over the years I have paid off 90k of debt (I earn ok plus I've had a large inheritance).
Last year I discovered a further 30k of debt, I have sorted 0% card shifts and repayments plans and warned him this was the absoloute last time I could cope with this. Again he cried, promised he would change, cut up all the credit cards etc.
He refuses any offers of help to go through his books etc.
I found out yesterday in the last 6 months he's wracked up another 7k of business debt (all on personal credit cards).
The same groundhog day of him crying, promising he will change etc etc.
Now clearly the business isn't working although it definitely has the potential to make lots of money (he has lots of work, is good at his job). However, he has never actually sat down and worked out what is going wrong. I am so frustrated, how can he ever change if he can't even identify what the underlying problem is?
It seems to me on the surface that he is paying to go to work and we would be better off him staying at home and me working full time (although this would be a struggle).
He argues that as the business can make money he should keep going with it, he just needs to work harder.
I work very long hours that we would struggle to get childcare for and I rely on him for drop offs and pick ups and we have a child who is frequently hospitalised so I really rely on him so him being employed by someone else would be really difficult. I suspect this is the reason his business is failing, he just can't put the hours in.

Anyhow I am rambling to try and explain but my real dilema is that I feel having warned him I would kick him out if it happened again I need to follow through. I am totally aware that I am enabling his behaviour.
My options are stay with him but sort his business (and debts) out, force him to give up work, or kick him out and ensure a secure future for myself and my 2 children.
The amounts of money involved and the secure future we could have had makes me sick. The lies are the worst and I am an emotional wreck.
I love him and really don't know what to do. I'm too embarassed to speak to anyone in real life. I would be really grateful for any replies.

Follow through. I think it's gone beyond the stage of sorting things out with him, he's had 10 years of last chances and fake promises, and even if the business is failing because he's dropping off DC etc., that is no excuse for lying about the extent of the problem. There comes a point where you can't save him, only yourself.

Follow through. Bailing him out each time is just causing him to rack up worse debts. There are no consequences for him other than self pity, as things stand.

Otherwise all threats are hollow and he knows it.

Or divorce him and separate your finances legally and retain a friendship.

Anyway, it will affect the children at some point, won't it? And teach them poor habits themselves , let alone the stress.

His business isn't a business - it's an expensive hobby. He needs to wind it down, get a well paying supplementary job alongside it or leave.

That's the ultimatum I'd put on the table. He sounds like hard work.

This will kill your love for him in the end. You've already squandered an inheritance on his inability to accept his own limitations; that could have sent your children to university. I would be beyond furious.

I don't think the fact he has to juggle his business around caring for your ill child is sufficient explanation for the mess that he's in, but equally that is a very difficult combination to manage unless his business has other employees who are able to pick up the slack. He may be good at his job but he is surely not providing a very good service to his customers given his erratic behaviour and financial mismanagement? Could he substantially downsize the work?

You need to send him a very clear message that you are prepared to end your marriage, however much you love him, to protect your children's futures from being sucked into this vortex. He can still be a great dad to your children but he is destroying your family.

" feel having warned him I would kick him out if it happened again I need to follow through."

You must, or you'll have no credibility left whatsoever. Even if it's not a permanent split in your eyes, you have to follow through to demonstrate that you're serious.

WTF is this business of his? How can he possibly lose so much money if he's getting 'lots of work'?

Yes, kick him out. Either it's not a business at all (would it be music/art or something along those lines where he spends three months creating something and gets paid 50p for it/) or he's actually gambling or doing drugs with your money.

He'll do it again.

Especially as your threat hasn't been followed through.

Previous strategies have failed, so no point in repeating those exercises.
Give him clear cut, non-negotiable choices.

1. Tell him that either he sees a psychologist to address his repeated destructive behaviour.

Or he leaves.

1. Tell him that he either winds up the business, or employs someone to handle it, because he has had long enough to make money from it and patently can't.

Or he leaves

1. Tell him that there are no further funds to bail him out, and he needs to agree payment plans through the business.... or let it go bankrupt

Or he leaves

1. Tell him to go and get a job so he becomes a contributor not a major drain.

Or he leaves.

I don't think you should leave, because you obviously still love him, and you say family life otherwise is good.
But you do need to make him face up to reality.

Another one saying follow through. Try to think of it this way: kicking him out is probably the only thing that could save your marriage. And if it doesn't well you've already taken the first step to ending it.

He's a lovely man who cries and then allows you to use your inheritence and salary to pay off his debts which by the sound of it are absolutely ridiculous. You are enabling this to carry on by bailing him out all the time, you must stop. It's ultimatum time, finish with the business, get a proper job and contribute to the household, I don't know how you've put up with that for so long, he needs to grow up.

Being poor with money is one thing. Running up such colossal debts repeatedly is quite another. He's quite secure in the knowledge that you'll rescue him, isn't he.

You said after he racked up the last £30,000, that it would be the last time. So, it has to be the last time.

From what you're saying - he's good at his job, there's plenty of work, he just can't run his own business.

When I first started out in business I thought anyone could run a business. Now I accept that some people just can't. The business is not failing because he can't put the hours in, it's because he has not identified how to run it effectively.

May I ask how big is his business? What field is it in?

If you've got to the point of being 'an emotional wreck' then you have to get out to save your sanity.

This sounds just like my EXH and his businesses. He was brilliant at his job but hopeless as a business man and with money in general. He couldn't get it in his head that he was better off spending the day in bed than going out and working at a loss. All he could see was £'s that were coming in and not what was going out. He thought he was better with lots of work (and working at a loss)than 'pricing himself out' and not getting any.

In 4 short years he is running from creditors and debt collectors and borrowing money off our 2 DC's who are currently students without an income! I can only be grateful that I bought him out of the family home and this all happened after our divorce because if I hadn't I am sure we would have been homeless due to his stupidity and recklessness.

Look after yourself and your DC's first and foremost.

Even if you want to still be in a relationship with him, I think you need to divorce and live apart, so that your finances are separate.
And stop bailing him out.

Go and see his accountant - find out where he is going wrong; sounds as if he has got his costings all wrong and does not know how much a job costs him until it is too late.

I had the same problem with a client who based quotes on what she thought the client would pay - not the cost of materials and labour + profit!

I'm on my phone so just some quick replies, I will reply in more detail later.
At the risk of outing myself, he is a plumber. He works alone , used to have another employee but he was costing him money. He kept him on for 2 years longer than he should have despite the employee being rubbish and actually being incompetent!
Forum donkey and Jasmine, he really doesn't have a clue. He often doesn't charge old people or people with young babies if they have an emergency because he feels sorry for them.

Definitely follow through.

Give him a chance to see the reality of life.

You can always go back if things work out but staying will just bring more of the same.

Follow through. You're likely to end up homeless if he's continually living this fantasy.

Follow through. You need to ask him to leave, and divorce him. You need to sever all financial ties with him.

Follow through, if you don't you will be undermining any future threats and he will never take them seriously.

If he/you want to save the business he needs to employ someone to run the business side of things, someone who can be in charge of bills and invoices, someone who can ensure that everything is balancing. It is the ONLY way his business will work.

Follow through. Divorce him so that your finances are completely separate. There will be a chance of having a relationship with him if he gets that massive wake up call (and hopefully have some therapy too, sounds like he's a gambling addict). You just can't be married to him, worry about him in this state, expose your children to his messes and have the responsibility of bailing him out.

I feel really sad for you. Never mind how much you earn, squandering 90k when it could have done so much for your dcs is appalling.

What Resnulis says.

Tears and promises are no use. He needs to acknowledge he's fucking up somewhere and give responsibility to control that to someone else.

Haven't read entire thread. Are you sure the money isn't going somewhere else? I would suggest gambling addiction.

I know a SE plumber and he doesn't over charge but makes a very decent living.
You need to get hold of his books and see what the hell is going on.
What invoicing system does he use?
How much tax does the tax man take PA?
He's not running it properly at all.
There are companies out there crying out for good plumbers.

He needs to man up and get an employee type job - right now!!