Am I paranoid or could he be cheating?

[amijustparanoid]

DH and I went to his works summer party on Friday night and something that I witnessed with him and a female colleague has been bothering me ever since. When we got there he seemed to make a big effort to sit us on the same table as her - throughout the meal she seemed ok, they were friendly but not overly friendly but later on when I was away from the table I saw him get up and move seats to sit next to her (it was late and people had started to move around/leave so at that time it was only those two at the table) and as he sat down he squeezed her thigh. It was very quick but it definitely happened. Then as I was watching they sat and chatted and while chatting he was helping himself to her drink. She didn't seem to react to either and didn't look surprised at what he was doing.

When I asked him about it on the way home he denied it had happened and when I brought it up again yesterday and said I'd definitely seen him do it and I thought it was inappropariate, he made light of it and said he was drunk and would just have been being friendly. I said I wasn't comfortable with him being that 'friendly' with another woman - especially one that he spends all day at work with but now he says I'm being ridiculous.

What do you think? Would you do something like this if drunk even if there was nothing going on with the person? He says the drink thing is nothing but I wouldn't help myself to someone elses drink unless we were close and used to sharing.

My friend thinks he was being a drunken idiot and says that if there was something going on with her then he would have tried to keep us apart and not sit us with her but I can't shake how uneasy it's made me feel. Before that night I had no suspicions anything was wrong, I'd never even heard of her before but now I'm sitting here dreading tomorrow knowing that he'll be with her all day at work.


Am I being silly over a couple of minor things or would this bother you?

[Jan45]

Don't stand for this any longer, the amount of disrespect he is showing you is astounding. I don't often say this but I'd be asking him to move out, he's blatantly contacting this OW on a constant basis, what's normal about that?

Sorry but I assume you already have reminded him of what he's got to lose, you actually need to follow through with it now, maybe it's the wake up call he needs, I couldn't even be near a man that was treating me in such low regard.

[mittensthekitten]

Woah - asking him to move out because he did a slightly inappropriate thing while drunk and had a 'slightly' flirty e-mail chat with a colleague?!

If this was a bloke that he'd been talking to would you be concerned?

Sorry to piss on the bonfire of the LTB crew, but I think it sounds like work colleagues who like each other and get on. It doesn't mean there's anything going on - men and women are allowed to be friends.

[Smilehappy]

Hey OP, how are you getting on today? Any update? X

[SawofftheOW]

Was he due to have new glasses or is he doing the usual of taking more care over his appearance, wearing aftershave to work etc? Have you noticed that he pays more attention to his grooming lately? Agree with Jan45, he is being astonishingly disrespectful of you. He is now treating you like a 'non person', someone of NO consequence and sod what he does with this OW. He - apparently - has the right to be in touch with her in this way. Well, yes, of course he does - but not on your watch and in your marital space. You sound lovely and so vulnerable but you need to square up to him on this one. This is bullying and contempt of the highest order. Please understand your own value and impress upon him that this stops, right now. However, having been in the same situation myself, I know full well that when you are replaced (which effectively you have been, and certainly in emotional terms), your concerns, feelings and wishes become as nothing to the betraying partner. He is in his bubble world which is highly addictive and only a profound shock, such as you saying 'get out, now' can usually crack open the casing of the 'bubble'. But be prepared that even then, the addiction to the affair can usually only be broken by complete no-contact and when he works with her, it is the worst of all scenarios. x

[Jan45]

Had another go on the phone and found an email - all the ones before it had been deleted but it was a trail of probably about twenty starting at 8 this morning with the latest one 30 mins ago so they've been emailing back and forth all day.

My response was to above, not the initial post, he knows how she feels about what happened at the party and now this - you think 20 messages in one day is normal?

[FourLittleDudes]

My ex had a blackberry and when I suspected he was cheating I set his emails to automatically forward to an email account I had set up. I think I put the words t mobile or blackberry in the address just incase he happened to see it, I hoped he would just glance over it, the only way he would r seen it though was to go through his email settings.

I got the evidence I needed and he never found out that I had set them to forward.

[ShedWood]

Fourlittledudes that's a clever idea, OP could you do something like that.

The course is 3 hours away from you, but it's bound to be near a MN-er, in fact someone on here could even work there/be staying there that could see what they're up to...

But that is a long shot and the reality is now that you're in a relationship with a man you no longer trust, who is spending an inappropriate amount of time, thought and energy on another woman - you know that's enough to confront him with, don't you?

He is making you unhappy, so sit him down and calmly explain how awful his behaviour is professionally and as a married man and if he should be horrified, if he's not you will know that having contact with this OW is more important than your feelings so then you ask him to leave.

[JustinBsMum]

When DH was too friendly with a much younger colleague I threatened to speak to his bosses. Heh heh (not in a calm and reasonable way!)That did not please him.....

He was feeling unappreciated and being a prat imv. I was busy with teenage DCs and a new job but he must have felt I didn't give him enough attention, when I what I wanted was help with home stuff, not another stroppy child!

Anyway we are still together 10 years on.

[amijustparanoid]

Thanks everyone - not feeling much better I'm afraid although have decided I can't ignore it anymore and am going to have to talk to him about it.

Got another look at the blackberry - there's a few back and forth between them today but they're mainly work related. They still make me uneasy - it's hard to put my finger on it as I can't pick any one thing and say 'this is too flirty' or whatever but it's just the way they seem to talk to each other - it seems very casual and informal even when about work stuff. I wouldn't talk to someone senior at my work in the way she talks to him. There was also a reference to a pub lunch which makes me think they've been out just the two of them.

Don't know how to bring it up with dh without him just trying to convince me there's nothing wrong with it and just making sure he deletes everything from now on. I know for example if I say I'm not comfortable with him going to lunch with her that he'll bring up the fact that I've done the same thing (occasional lunches with male colleagues although I always tell him about them)

[MadAboutHotChoc]

this may help when you talk to him

[Thisisaeuphemism]

I think I would go in hard - not giving any information away - so something like;

I know. Now I want you to tell me how long it's been going on for and what you are doing about stopping it.

When he blusters and denies I would just insist I know - while letting it be implied that you have been given incontrovertible evidence. If he continued to deny I would threaten hr and solicitor the next morning.

But then I'm pretty certain he is shagging her. You might not be yet.

[amijustparanoid]

Thisisaeuphemism - why are you certain they're shagging? I know it looks bad and i'm worried but I don't think he's gone that far - I think he's just getting too close to her.

[NanaNina]

The only people who know what is going on is your DH and the female under discussion. I have to say that I have changed my opinion, as I felt everyone was jumping to conclusions, but all the e mails have made me wonder whether they are "too close" or on the brink of a r/ship - I don't know. The thing is (and this is not excusing your DH or any other man) they do tend to be very susceptible from attention/flattery especially from someone younger than themselves. She may be flattered that someone who is senior to her is showing so much interest in her.

I have been cheated on (many years ago) and I forgave him but it made me feel SO angry and miserable for so long. It was before the days of texts but bloody letters were coming from her.........the best piece of advice I can offer is to watch to see if he is behaving "out of the ordinary/out of character" as for me this was what finally made me realise. I agree with others to watch if he is taking more care in his personal appearance and you will no doubt see what he is packing. If by the time he goes next week you are still worried, how about slipping a note into his suit case to the effect that you suspect him and this girl are on the brink of an affair, or something similar. This would surely spoil it for him if they were thinking of any hanky-panky, OK it would also give him thinking time of how to deny it to you, and I'm afraid they usually do deny it, but they way they do it is important, and their body language is important.

I really hope for you that this is innocent and I agree you do sound like a lovely rational person.

[Thisisaeuphemism]

I'm sorry. Is your dh a very tactile person? My dh is not I guess and there is just no way he would ever squeeze someone's thigh unless they were having sex.

If they are not shagging then he has massive massive inappropriate boundaries with a junior staff member- and that would disturb me equally I'm afraid.

[amijustparanoid]

I've talked to him - couldn't do the 'I know' thing as I was sure he would just deny it and really, I don't actually know that much.

I made an excuse to look at his phone and didn't give him a chance to say no - he let me but did look quite worried and fidgety. I read todays emails again and asked him about the lunch comment - he said that they'd 'popped out' for lunch a few weeks ago. I asked why it had just been them and no one else and he said no one else had wanted to go but he looked so shifty it was obvious he was lying and they hadn't asked anyone else

Then he did exactly as I thought - said that they were just 'friendly colleagues' and how was it any different to when I did the same. I said it was the secrecy that upset me - that if they were such 'friendly colleagues' who talked everyday and went for lunch and emailed in the evenings (one was still there from yesterday) why did I only hear about her last week. I said it made me worry what else they were doing that he wasn't telling me about. He got a bit frustrated - said he didn't think I wanted to hear everything about his work, that he didn't tell me the days he went for lunch with male colleagues so he didn't think to tell me when he went with her.

So now I don't know - I've always had male friends and said that male/female friendships can be purely platonic and now the first female friend he has that I don't know and I'm worrying.

My own colleagues didn't exactly help today though - I vaguely brought up the topic (didn't tell them I was talking about my dh) and their general consensus was that married men don't spend time developing friendships with women unless they're after something. :( Do you think that's true?

I've told him I want him to have more boundaries - that even if nothing is going on she or other people at work may get the wrong idea and I've downloaded Shirley Glass and asked him to read some of it with me. He reluctantly agreed but now I don't even know what are reasonable boundaries to ask him to keep.

Feels like such a mess

And no - he's not generally overly tactile

God sorry for the jumbled essay - am going round in circles here

[TwoCrazyKids]

Amiparonoid, I'm so sorry your going through this. When is dh going away?

[MadAboutHotChoc]

Re reasonable boundaries - the quiz I have linked to earlier should help. Examples would include secrecy re extent of "friendship" and sharing confidences.

I hope you made him aware that he is putting his own job at massive risk by being too friendly with a junior female member of staff...

[Thisisaeuphemism]

I'm sorry. I have lurked on this board to know that when a woman writes here of her suspicions that he is having an affair "although he can't be" in 99.999% of cases they are right. I can't think of any thread I've read where the woman got it wrong.

And the men always deny it. Well they would. wouldnt they.

[MadAboutHotChoc]

Yes, they always deny and minimise - they know what they stand to lose

[dontyouwantmebaby]

so was it just flat out denial that he had squeezed her thigh that time you confronted him?

am so sorry OP, I really feel for you but I think this is a case of easy intimacy coupled with complacency on their part (signalling something friendship/fliratation he has been keeping from you has been going on for a while) plus your gut instinct/suspicions all point to something going on.

i too would ask him to leave so that you can have some space. Don't let it eat you up about him going away on a course next week - fuck that. If he can ride roughshod over your feelings, don't stand for it. Take charge, call the shots. Let's face it - if the situation were reversed, how would your husband react if he'd seen you acting this way with a male colleague? including all the bloody texts and emails?

(and I say this as someone who worked in a male-dominated environment, had loads of married male colleagues, a few I now consider good friends so can see the other side of it iyswim)

[DonkeysDontRideBicycles]

Bravely done OP that was a difficult but necessary step.

[Twinklestein]

Friends is one thing - thigh squeezing, the casual intimacy of sharing a glass, and 20 texts over 12 hours - is another.

It's perfectly reasonable, given your fears (which may well be justified) to ask him to have no contact with her. No emails, no pub lunches.

That way he can prove nothing is going on.

See if he can manage to stay away from her.