exp wants to bring dd back later than agreed. last 'his'weekend he was an hour llate

[Mollymom]

On his last weekend he and ow took dd to the beach. Ageed time to be bsck was 7 due to school even tho he asked for 8(pm). I got a text at half 7 supposedly sent much earlier saying they would not be back til 8. Now this weekend agreed time back is 4pm. Just got a text asking ifit xan be later as he and ow have taken dd camping approx 270 miles away amd they would like more time on the beach tomorrow. I want to say no. Am I being a bad kom to say no?

What's he supposed to do? Lie? DSS wanted to stay he was kicking up saying we could pretend there was bad traffic. DH is not telling white lies, DSS has been told many times by his own mother when and where he is supposed to be, often before we know. He's been dragged into all the arguments over divorce etc. Nothing is shielded from him at home and as much as we do try to keep that side of things away from him. If DSS Really really really wanted to stay he needed to ask his mum, if DH had done that the ex would probably have had a fit and reduced contact next time.

DSS is not 4 years old he is starting secondary school next term. He knows what his mum is like, with no input from DH.

Im just highlighting to OP that sometimes the last minute changes to drop-off are what the child wants and not the adult. Maybe not in this particular instance but for future reference.

Giving exact times is unfair and your child is the one missing out in the long run not your ex. My mother used to do this to my father just to be awkward. As long as it is not a ridiculous time before a school night so what.

as much as we do try to keep that side of things away from him

Clearly not if you're saying things like and that to ask otherwise would upset his mum . Comments like that are toxic.

there's nothing wrong with boundaries, and time is one of them. It's good to learn about time, how it works, how it doesn't bend. Keeping to agreed times is a good discipline for all concerned, especially the child.

So you dissed his mother in a way that would have gone right to the core of his subconscious - all because he was going to win a game of monopoly.

That poor kid.

Exact times aren't unfair as it means you can plan around them. In general the 7.30 got much more flexible as the children got older, often it was nearer 8 and sometimes 8.30 although we'd let the other parent know what time we expected to arrive. Sometimes it was 7 if a child wanted to be back early to sort something out before school the next day. Some flexibility is useful but a time as a guide is essential and when picking a child up I think you have to be firm about times. Kids shouldn't be kept waiting by their parents.
The times we picked the kids up on a Friday varied a bit with school activities but were always agreed by all before the day. No last minute changes of plan, that's what really causes arguments. You can be flexible before the weekend but drop off and pick up times on the weekend should be fairly fixed so everyone can make plans. If this guy planned to take his daughter on a long trip at the weekend he should have asked to bring her back a few days before.

Whatever Springytoto, DH just told DSS he couldn't ask his mum to extend drop off time, DSS wanted a reason DH gave him the real one. DSS wanted to ask his mum, DH let him. DSS got shot down in flames too. DSS knows that his mum calls all the shots regarding contact. DSS wants to share xmas and birthday with DH and his siblings here, answer is no. He writes a letter to both his mum and dad and the answer is still no. DSS gets toys/clothes/gifts from DH and his family, he's not allowed to take them home with him and that's his mums instructions to DSS not DH. Seeing as a lot of people on this thread think flexibility regarding drop-off is a good thing and DH does too. Would an extra hour have really made that much difference? The eldest siblings don't get home until 7pm from their dad so why should DSS sit in his bedroom waiting for them? And we know that happens because DSS calls DH quite often after contact bored and missing his dad. To be fair to DH he tries very hard to be neutral unlike the ex. Such as the time she held a party to celebrate the divorce settlement and telling DSS its because 'daddy's not making us homeless.' DH has to bite his tongue every time DSS asks why he left them. He can't exactly say its because your mum kept sleeping around.

Sometimes when one party is playing toxic games things slip out.

If you want to bring your kids up by a strict timetable fair enough, but DH has already told DSS that when he starts secondary school and he wants to hang out with his mates he won't stop him doing that just because its dad's weekend. Likewise if DSS wants to pop round for tea/dinner as he gets older we're not going to stop him so long as no one has anything planned. I used to visit my relatives on my own all the time as a kid. I don't see why being divorced should make any difference.

Don't diss monopoly, since we've started playing board games and dragging DSS off his laptop/phone he's started to relax and have a lot more fun. And its really nice to see a kid enjoying the thrill of beating their dad and stepmum.

You may or may not be right - it's impossible to tell. What I do know is that ex's can be painted with a broad brush and things are not what they seem. I said 'can be' . His mum may or may not be a slag - but there is a definite whiff from your posts step that she is the black-and-white baddie and you are both whiter than white. It could be a different story altogether - just saying.

I doubt if his teacher would take the excuse that he was just about to win a game of monopoly as a reason for him being late for school. Or any future employers, come to that. Regardless of the reasons that your exemplary parenting unlike his mother's may have got him out of his internet/gaming shell to do something 'wholesome'. As for bored - what kid doesn't regularly complain of being bored? They may or may not be truly bored, may or may not be being neglected/used as a pawn against ex. It does seem, howeve,r that it appears to be appropriate for him to report back to his dad and you the exemplary sm the failings of his mother. It also seems that he is resoundingly heard.

A campaign that runs under the surface is much more deadly than one that is out in the open. Both aren't great, of course, but the subtle one is unbelievably toxic. You may or may not want to settle scores but don't use him to settle them. You'll fuck him up if you do.

Springytoto, you're not being fair! Do you not know any children over five? You just TRY keeping them out of discussions regarding their parent!

What was his dad supposed to say? "You can't stay longer, it is Not Allowed for unspecified Reasons"? Have you ever spoken to a ten year old child? I can tell you, a vague response simply does not cut the mustard with any child who has been brought up to expect explanations and reasons.

And, springytoto, are you honestly telling me that a child's complaints shouldn't be heard? Even when they are against the (of course) saintly and abused parent with residency?

When my children go to their fathers,him sure they do complain about me. Certainly they are free to ring me and ask to stay longer or leave early, because they are people, not property. I don't own them.

As it happens, I do know - and have - children over 5 (and 10. Try hideous teens). I also teach disadvantaged 16-25yo's. so I know all about challenging kids and challenging behaviour - and 'I want' and 'waaah the world should bend to my needs' (which are actually wants the majority of the time).

Pretty awful when an idiot parent comes along who says 'of course you can have everything just the way you want, diddums'. A lot of my students are disadvantaged because of parenting like this. Or 'that bad mummy/daddy is so awful to you - look at me and my wonderful parenting'. ime a lot of parents are in parenting to show the world what good parents they are.

I've had the wrangling over eg fag breaks with my students. They come in, their boyf has just cheated on them, they're in a mess.... but fag breaks are at 11am and 3pm and that's that. It's a boundary and that's that. I don't screech or create - it is too disruptive having people trailing in and out for a desperately needed (apparently) fag. I smoke/d myself, so I also have to wait for the fag breaks, despite what's going on in my life.

Boundaries, rules, part of life. It is as it is - nobody's fault, just how it is. Uphold them and you're doing kids a favour. Not depriving them ffs.

I also brought up my kids while battling for decades their horrific father/my exH. I had to find a way to answer their questions and talk about him without encouraging them to disrespect him . It's an art - it is not easy. sometimes it seems impossible - but you have to do it, you have to find a way. You have to find a way to phrase things that doesn't diss the other parent. I'm not suggesting lying re 'mummy/daddy is a lovely mummy/daddy' when mummy/daddy clearly isn't; but refraining from toxic digs that make it quite clear what you really think and feel. And which fuck the kid up.

I don't think "your mum will get upset" sounds that negative though. I don't see it as greatly different to "your mum will worry" or "your mum likes us to stick to the time you go back to her house".
It is the mum in this case who is being inflexible. If my kids were playing a long game at my exe's house and wanted to finish the game I'd expect my ex to get them to ring me if they'd be late back to see if it's OK to stay longer.
If he'd said "your mum's a controlling bitch who will never let you stay any longer than we agreed" I'd agree he was badmouthing her.

'your mum will get upset/worry' suggests emotional blackmail/unreasonable, capricious, needy. it puts blame on the mother. When there is no blame, it's just as it is. A boundary.

How about 'that's the time for drop-off/pick-up' ie no discussion. Not nice, not nasty; a fact, statement, reality. A boundary. Life is full of them.

ok that's that then. Finished with spelling it out

I think yabu sorry. He is taking her away on holiday somewhere special, it's not like she is just going to his house for the weekend. I don't really see what difference an hour will make. You also say you are going to your mums for tea. Surely you can go anytime? Plus if they are travelling a long way your daughter will be tired and I doubt will feel like going to her nan's for tea as soon as she gets back

Thing is Springy - I think everyone will agree that boundaries are good, but, as children begin to develop, then there are times when they can be involved in discussions about what those boundaries are. Some things I think everyone would agree are non-negotiable (say, wearing a seatbelt in a car) but others (say bed times) are boundaries that some children can respond much better to when they have a certain amount of control.

Now, if I'm out either for a day trip or a weekend away with my dc, and it's the school holidays, then I would never arrange to be back at a set time, as it's going to depend on how the day / weekend goes, so why not give the dc's other parent that same privilege ?
Same with the Monopoly game story - why would it be a problem for the receiving parent, to not have the child back until 40mins later than expected, because the child has got caught up in something they are just loving doing ? If mine are doing something (might just be playing out in the back garden with NDN) that's occupying them and they are happy, I'll quite often leave them an extra 1/2 hour or whatever before calling them in, as it's more important, at that time, on that day to build lovely memories of playing out with friends, than it is to be in bed at a particular time. The rigidity about a fixed time is a lot more about controlling an ex-p rather than thinking of what is best for the dc.

It's about flexibility when it's appropriate which is something you have to do a lot in parenting.

Just give it time ExP did this and i started coming late all the time. although very immature, i knew that the only way it would get to him would be to interrupt his plans. Now hes always on time.
love that he used the whole 'i sent u a text earlier it must have got to you late' - weird it only ever happens from him lol

The fact that he left you in April then manages to hook up with another woman and take her to a place that you thought was special to you and him is pretty bloody relevant I think.

We are not robots, we can't turn our emotions on and off like taps. That is a pretty bloody big betrayal so to expect you to immediately snap into acquiescent smiley mode is a pretty big ask.

I do not understand why to some here it appears taboo to realise that the partner left behind has feelings, often overwhelming and very difficult emotions and if the ex shows the emotional sensitivity of a sprout this can have serious repercussions - for the parent's emotional health for the smooth running of contact etc, etc.

While feelings are running high, you stick to the agreed times, to help allay anxiety and show respect. When things have claimed down, hopefully there is a lot more room for a more relaxed attitude. But it is far too soon now to expect the op just to shrug this off.

"How about 'that's the time for drop-off/pick-up' ie no discussion. Not nice, not nasty; a fact, statement, reality. A boundary. Life is full of them."

Completely disagree. If you can't explain WHY a rule is in place, particularly as a child gets older, you're on a very negative road. I explain my rules/decisions to even my 5 year old.

If you tell a child he or she has had their fun day cut short just because its the rule but cannot explain why that is, they will come to resent your rules. And what do you do as they get older? DSS17.5 still has to be back by 6pm "just because". What if he was out with his friends (god forbid) on a Sunday instead if here. Would he still have to be back at 6pm? If not why not? Why earlier from a friends that from his dads? There would be no logical reason. It would be "just because".

Do you explain to your child why they have to be in school at 9? Have you ever?

I don't personally think it's always a good idea to explain every boundary. It's a good discipline to accept that some things just are and you don't need, or have the right, to know the innards of it.

Bravo Spero

"Do you explain to your child why they have to be in school at 9? Have you ever?"

Yes, I have. And there's a very clear reason so that's easy. Lessons start at 9 and if he's not there he will miss the lesson and interrupt the class when he arrives late. Unlike having to be home at 6 or whatever "just because"

I agree, if the reason a child has to be back at a particular time because one parent insists on it and won't have any flexibility then it's just telling the truth to tell that to the child. In this case the child could phone his mum and ask her and he saw for himself that his mum was rigid about timing. When the child got home the mum could have explained why she felt a rigid time was so important.
In the OP's case the mum could have told the child that she's sorry the child didn't have longer at the seaside but she had agreed to go to grannies for tea and when dad phoned to stay longer it was too late to cancel grannie as she would have already prepared tea and that daddy should have discussed it earlier. That is also telling the truth.
If you are a divorced parent you will have these discussions with your kids. Kids of divorced parents should be given reasons just like other kids.
When my kids were small 7.30 was the time they had to be back so that they had time to tell the other parent what they'd been up to (if they wanted to) sort out stuff for school the next day and get to bed on time.

I agree with 4pm being too early, surely time for DD with her father is important to her and I think you could be flexible for her sake. I know it must be hard for you but if you just focus on DD and think of the long haul this will be it is better to let them enjoy themselves. I would encourage his contact with her, it will be so good for her self esteem if the relationship with her father stays solid.

Missing seaside time with dad for the routine tea at grannies, really? YABU

"When my kids were small 7.30 was the time they had to be back so that they had time to tell the other parent what they'd been up to (if they wanted to) sort out stuff for school the next day and get to bed on time."

Exactly, that is a good solid reason that can be easily explained to a child.

My kids had a real problem with the chopping and changing - my house, his house. they needed time to settle down. They also needed continuity and routine.