Going to be a Grandma, don't know whether to weep for joy or regret

[GrandmaWeLoveYou]

Have NC for this.
It's a bolt from the blue.

DS (23) announced yesterday to his Father that his Girlfriend (of 3 years) is pregnant.
DH gave me this news this morning at breakfast.

Both of them are at Uni therefore not financially independant and DH has decided that we will fund them both for next 2 years until DS has qualified.

They've got it all sorted.

It's like history repeating itself only we were financially stable when our happy accident (DS) happened.

I've spoken to DS who said it was an accident. In this day and age accidents don't happen do they?

I don't know whether to jump for joy or cry my eyes out.
They had all the time in the world to have kids.
This is life changing stuff.

Can't help but think they've left it this long (3 months) to tell us because over here that's the cut off for abortion.

My beautiful boy is going to be a father before he's had time to really enjoy life and girlfriend will be a mother at 23 (i find 23 year olds in general lacking the maturity my generation had)

I sound like an awful person i know. I'm sure once the baby's here i'll be overjoyed, but for the moment feel raw and sad.

Please give me reassurance.

[AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom]

Oh gawd. I think it was me that set this all off by challenging the 'mums of boys' comment.

Sorry OP .

Do you want your thread back now? I think maybe we should all just ignore and move back to the OPs situation.

[perfectstorm]

I'm perfectly calm, actually, as evidenced by the fact that I'm not the one endlessly posting, and in such an impassioned and rude manner that most such comments were deleted. If you want to post condescendingly to someone, then it might be an idea to avoid such obvious own goals in future? Otherwise, your posts will just continue to look foolish.

I was just politely explaining why you were met with the responses you were, and the reasons underlying that reaction, so you could avoid such mistakes on your part in future. You clearly mind the reaction you encountered very much, because the amount of time and energy you've put into repeated angry posting and numerous personal attacks would have allowed you to read the original one (and post more appropriately) several times over. It's a simple thing to fix, if you can just accept you screwed up, as we all do at times, and let it go yourself.

If you choose to see anyone correcting your mistaken posting as indicative of anger or stress on their part, then life online must seem both painful and confusing. But the road to changing that lies in your hands, and attacking all and sundry will only make your difficulties worse. When met with universal annoyance, shooting the messenger is fairly self-defeating.

[OliviaMMumsnet]

ahem

[AdoraBell]

Grandma I hope tonight's dinner goes well.

[OctopusPete8]

23 isn't a bad age to have a baby, and if you were the same age yourself its slightly hypocritical to upset.

Of course accidents happen nothing is 100 especially hormonal contraception,

And would you have hassled them into an abortion?
I'm finding it hard to sympathize you come across in an unpleasant light and making sweeping generalizations about young people, I was 19 when I had my 'accident' I was more mature than a lot of mothers in their thirties to be honest.

[mathanxiety]

I see there is a bit of a bunfight, which is regrettable.

As the mother of four DDs and a DS with a bright future ahead of them that depends on going to university and doing well there, I can see where your opposite numbers are coming from if they are angry. On the subject of Catholics in general, most are not so conservative and I don't think this is where their anxiety is coming from. Any parents of a daughter with 6 more years of university to go before qualification would very realistically see a daughter's future and hear a loud sucking sound as it all went down the drain when they heard the announcement of a pregnancy. The fears of the other half here are probably based on real perceptions of how the burden of carrying a baby and caring for one usually fall on the mother. That is true no matter what religion (if any) the mother and her family have. Of course they may have some notions of their daughter now becoming a 'good girl' SAHM and throwing her education away. I hope your DH's positive and forward-looking attitude will help everyone see that there is a future graduation and professional career for this young woman as well as for your DS.

Raising your daughter to be compliant and a 'good girl' (which can happen in any family where mum kowtows to dad) often means raising your daughter to make huge mistakes and try to please everyone when it comes to contraception and taking charge of your fertility when in a relationship. That is a personal observation of some 'good girls' who have been put in an impossible situation, never taught to put themselves and their own best interests first, in other words, not prepared for real life and real responsibility. Charting, etc., is much more useful as a way of planning to have a baby than to avoid having one. It is not what responsible unmarried women who cannot support themselves financially should rely on in order to avoid pregnancy.

On the subject of marriage, I see no reason why they could not get married if they wished in a RC church, unless there are rules where you are that are a far cry from those in operation where I am. That is if they wish to. There is no guarantee that they will stay together or want to take their relationship to that level.

A family I am friends with have two DDs, one of whom had a baby at age 17. The young mother went to university while her parents took in the baby pretty much full time. The condition was that the mother would fund her own studies because her parents could afford to either take care of the baby or pay for university but not both. Two degrees later, the 'baby' is 11 and living full time with her mother who is a professional working full time, married to a new man and the mother of a 2 year old DS who was born during her final year of professional studies.

When this baby was born the husband's mother travelled and stayed three days and nights to take care of her grandchild, and the grandmother who is my friend did the other four days/nights of babycare. The mother arranged her classes so that she travelled three hours to her university on a Sunday night, stayed in a rented room, went to class for three days solid, travelled back home late on Wednesday, and did her studying and assignments for the other four days. Without her husband's salary as an anesthetist the expense of all this alone would have made it impossible. Without the willingness of both grandmothers to do their shifts the expense would have put it out of reach as they would have to have hired a live-in nanny. The father worked hospital shifts and babycare by him was out of the question.

The mother's older sister had her first baby (with her husband whom she married at 6 months pregnancy) during her second last year of medical school, and her second baby while a hospital resident. The grandmother moved to this daughter's city to take care of the first baby for his first four months when he was a newborn and when the couple and their baby moved closer to grandparents she took care of the first grandchild as well as the second and then the third. I took care of the oldest grandchild during the day while the grandfather worked, and he would pick her up and give her dinner, bathe her and get her off to bed. After breakfast he dropped her off at my house.

There may be similar heavy lifting in your future. Of course, it may well be that the grandads and fathers involved here may take up the burden, but is this how they see things? If you think you will end up bearing more of a burden than the men involved then maybe you can think a little of the parents of the DIL and understand their concerns.

Finally, congratulations. My friends love their grandchildren to bits and they are wonderful children, cherished by the extended family to the point of idolatry, and their daughters have wonderful careers.

[AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom]

Octopus - Have you read the thread? The OP said that abortion was never an issue for her (she was more concerned about the DIL's parents) and would not have pushed it. They didn't use hormonal contraception, they used the rhythm method. And OP has got over the upset and is happy, but concerned about the practicalities.

[OctopusPete8]

I agree that isn't really an accident just stupidity , and I apologize for getting the abortion thing twisted.
As a young mother myself the generalizations about young parents are very offensive.

[AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom]

I can understand that. In defence of the OP, I think as the thread has gone on she's kind of admitted that what she meant was that, by the same age, she had far more responsibilities and was ready for parenthood whereas her own son (and I think it was maybe shock making her generalise to young people generally, which of course isn't fair) has been very sheltered, in the sense that all he has had to worry about is studying.

I agree that age is irrelevant to what kind of parent you make.

[MrsOakenshield]

I don't think age is irrelevant to the kind of parent you make, but it's irrelevant to whether or not you'll make a good parent. That's really pedantic, isn't it? I just thought - I'm an older parent and I do think I might have been a rather more carefree (and certainly more flexible and less tired!) parent if I'd been younger!

[AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom]

Oh yes, I agree that there are probably some general trends. Like I'm guessing that those who have children younger tend to (on average) have more energy, and later tend (on average) to have more financial resources to parent with. By 'kind of parent' I did really mean how good a parent you will make

[chipmonkey]

FWIW, Grandma, you said they wouldn't be able to marry in church.
My cousin is catholic, her dh is Jewish and they married in a Catholic church. He definitely didn't convert, either.

For Catholics, abortion would be a worse "sin" than contraception so it would be highly unlikely that the parents would have pushed that. But they might possibly push for a wedding before the baby is born?

[mathanxiety]

Agree with Chipmonkey's comment wrt church wedding and also what the ILs may want.

However, no priest will marry a couple when a baby is due, especially a young couple and in particular under pressure from the bride's or groom's parents. It would be grounds for annulment afterwards (duress). The Catholic church doesn't care any more about what side of the blanket a baby is born as long as the baby gets to be born.

I think having that first baby is a huge shock to your system no matter what age you are. (DD1 born when I was 25)

[chipmonkey]

Math, my SIL got married at 5 months pregnant in a catholic church. I'm not sure if they discussed the pregnancy with the priest beforehand, mind you! But she had a little bump up at the altar.

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

chip - I think the Catholic church over here is a very different thing to the Catholic church in France.

[downunderdolly]

Hello Grandma

You sound awesome; how lucky is your DS/DIL/DGC to be. Nothing of erudite enlightenment to add but to say did a uni course with year in different country. Lecture on each year a student comes back pregnant, changes course of life. My year: high flying fabulous girl does same age 21. Has baby. Now DH moves here from US. Hard start financially etc. Fast forward 22 years. She and same DH now have 2 additional sons. She is head mistress. They are happily married. Perhaps she may have had in inverted commas more high flying career. But they are awesome family. I have 5 year old. I am too happy although inadvertent single parent having married at 36 vs 21. Never would have predicted on paper they would be together and sensible me be single parent but que sera. All of your feelings I validate but life being as it is, who knows what will happen and they are certainly lucky they have you in their corner. Good luck and god speed xx

[2468Motorway]

Grandma
Congrats, just thought I'd pop in (if you're still reading!) . To say that my dad married out and I feel very culturally connected to that side of my family. It is unlikely they will be very devout of either religion (based on the number of halfies I know in real life). It doesn't sound to me like that will be too big a hurdle for you though.

I'm jealous of you being a young granny (I'm an oldish mum) . Think of all those brilliant years of fun you have ahead while you are in good health. Mazel tov :)

[GrandmaWeLoveYou]

And i'm back in the room!

It's like a bloody warzone upthread! What's been going on?

Thanks again to all the congrats (even one from MNHQ!)

We're all doing fine.

Yesterday's barbeque went well, even though the oldies asked far too many indscrete questions.

DS is showing himself to be a fully fledged and responsible man.

It is evident to all that they are very much in love and have a solid relationship.

Last night we all went to a firework display with a ball going on.
We had a "ball"!
We danced (DH and i do a mean rock n roll! Even if i do say so myself!).
A good time was had by all.

Today had breakfast with the young lovers and then to work.
Told my collegues the good news and everyone (bar 1) were full of conratulations. (i have to admit i shed a tear or two)

Came home and everyone's gone.
I'm now home alone.

DH is determined to interfere and speak to DIL's Father. I'm not so sure.
They may come back from holiday with a new mindset.....we'll see.

As far as scans go.....all done, baby healthy ( Danken got!)

Due January.

Names ?????????

[GrandmaWeLoveYou]

Marriage has been discussed with her Parents.
DS and DIL shall decide.

I'd love a Jewish wedding (sorry, but i would)
I think that's totally out of the question.

A church wedding would appear to be a no go, there're strict rules over here (apparantly) and DS would need to be baptised at least.
(would say nothing but would break my heart a little)

Looks like a civil marriage is on the cards.

[AdoraBell]

Grandma, I'm so very glad the scan went well, and that you had a good time partíng

Can you use the time that DIL's parents are away to work on DH, Get him to see How they are when they Get back having had time to Get their heads around the situación? Please excuse random capitals, iPad is having a strop!

[GrandmaWeLoveYou]

But, a marriage is a marriage....good excuse for a party!

[AdoraBell]

Is it posible, I really have no clue, to have a Jewish wedding without DIL converting? I do appreciate that her parents might not like the idea.

[woopsidaisy]

Little story.
Few years ago I worked in Breast Unit (nurse), mostly surgery for cancer.
A girl in her early thirties was in having a mastectomy. She was going to need radiotherapy too. I was taking her drain out and her mum was there too. We were just chatting, and I'd mentioned that it was good she would have her daughter home to help a bit. The patient lady was 32, she had her daughter at 16.
The patients mummy said, "Do you know, nurse, when patient got pregnant at 16, we thought it was the worst thing that could happen. We were devastated. But grand daughter has given so much joy to us all. Patient lady has never married or had more children. And now after radiotherapy probably won't.
Thank god that grand daughter came along when she did!"

We all agreed that what was for you, wouldn't pass you.

Plus-23 isn't that young to have kids, IMO!! Good lick OP.

[GrandmaWeLoveYou]

AdoraBell DH is a loving and caring man. Our DIL is part of our family (way before all this).
DH can't bear to see the terrible burden she's carrying with her.

Our parenting is leagues away from her parent's and DH feels a need to get them onside.

I don't know the right from wrong in this situation.

DS and DIL must decide if his intervention could be constructive.

(DIL is very, very fragile at the moment. Her parents (father) have in my opinion been odious)

[skylerwhite]

There would have to be a civil marriage first anyway, wouldn't there?

The same rules apply in the whole Catholic church - a Catholic CAN marry a non-Christian, and your DS would NOT have to be baptised. They would need to seek a dispensation from the local bishop. I think it's called a 'dispensation de disparite de culte'.

Obviously, your DS and DIL might decide that a civil marriage is the most appropriate option for them, but just to let you know that it is possible.