Why do they do it? And why do women get involved when they know there are children going to be hurt?

[InTheRedCorner]

I just don't understand why anyone would do it to the children.

No one is forced to get involved, why not walk away, not answer the text, reply to the email, respond to the flirty look or comment.

My poor girls are finally asleep but still hicuping and so so sad.

I know 100% that the blame lies solely at his door but I just don't get it from the other females point of view, she knew he had us, she must have realised I had married a wanker but why allow herself to get involved, what about the children?

You may be able to tell that I'm raw and hurting this evening and I may well regret posting this but it's all so fucking lonely and such a waste of my life.

I don't know why my comments strike you as odd Francesca. I was saying what I had found in RL. Obviously my life experiences are more limited than yours. Or my friends and acquaintances are just different to the people you have known.

And I don't get your 'undisclosed' comment at all- other than you could have undisclosed reasons for claiming your variety of experiences.
Most odd comment.

I don't think the op was talking about empathy she was asking why ow took part in affairs despite the effect it has on wives/children.

As I said up thread that sound implies ow are meant to think about devastated wives and children and not get involved with a married man I.e. take responsibility.

Just because somebody does something it doesn't mean they don't have any empathy.

I wasn't talking about empathy but I can see how some one can empathise but still not care less and do it anyway.

She knows about me and our DC and still decided to do what she wanted anyway, that, I can't understand.

And I still blame my husband 100% but just can't understand from her pov.

In my opinion there are three reasons why people enter relationships with married men/women.

1. They are self centred arseholes with narcissistic type personalities. The relationship is about them and them only.

2. They are not capable of being in an ordinary relationship. They need the thrill of an illicit relationship, they feel that they have been chosen over the married partner and that boosts their fragile self-esteem.

3. They are human and make mistakes. They didn't intend for anyone to get hurt but it happened and as time passes they may realise the error of their ways and feel pretty shit about it.

I was once the OW. The man in question wasn't married, though he was in a longish term relationship with his girlfriend.

I had a boyfriend when we met, our relationship was shit and was making me unhappy but it was the first ever real relationship I had been in so didn't know any different (as stupid as that sounds). Me and the cheater met at work and we quickly fell for each other. He was the driving force and the instigator in the whole thing. He told me how unhappy he was with his girlfriend (sleeping on the sofa, fighting all the time, didn't love her anymore) and that he wanted to leave but couldn't because he was stuck renting a flat with her for 6 months and couldn't afford to leave/ had nowhere to go/ couldn't face splitting up with her and living in that confined space together for the next 6 months.

I loved him utterly (had never been in love before) and hey, I knew that my relationship was shit and that he had woken me up to how terrible it was, so why wouldn't the same be the case for him? After TWO YEARS of lies, heartbreak, being cheated on and abused by him and basically having my life ruined I realized he was actually a shit and a very damaged person. I did believe every lie he told me though. I did feel bad for getting involved with someone who was taken but I did truly believe the things he said about how crap his relationship was, how much he loved me etc, and that it was just a case of waiting till he could move out and we could be together properly. Oh, and I wasn't pathetic, desperate or damaged when we met. I was happy, confident, outgoing, surrounded by friends etc. Funny how by the time things with him ended the opposite was the case...

I say this only in the hope of offering a different view point. Dunno if it helps at all

It does help Rose it's another proven fact that every relationship/reason is different and I'm so sorry he put you through that.

This time next week I will be attending a family work early evening with her there as one of the many hosts.

We have a family invite and I intend to still go with my DC but minus the not so D Husband and hold my head high, actions speaking louder than words and she will know I know by silence.

He will not be joining us because he has a date with a bedsit wall and a microwave meal for one or whatever he chooses to be doing.

I can understand where you are coming from. However ( and I am sure you know this) the blame should lie at your man's door. To expand on your question.... I never understood (unless there really is a "connection" and still I'd be wary) why women believe all the gumpf that the cheating man says to them about their "miserable, battleaxe" girlfriends/wives. Maybe it's just me, but getting validation from a man slagging off (probably slandering) another woman seems to be setting yourself up to be treated the same. Then to go on and try and be the woman who the cheated upon girlfriend/ wife wasn't in order to keep a cheating sod (instead of being oneself) seems to be deranged too. This is why I do feel that cheating men can "thrive". It's not that there is always a hole waiting for a cheating pole, it's that the world is seemingly full of women waiting to throw their lives over for not the one time cheat who is in a miserable relationship (apparently), but what they must know is a serial cheater. Seeing this phenomena in women makes me know that too many women have out of control egos and low self esteem....the kind of combination that will make them feel good about themselves for taking another woman's man and not the fact that they now have the man that will make them happy...predators are not only men and there are unfortunately a lot of (sexist term alert) slags out there, who when their file has been dashed out there for all to see, its pure side chick status that one can see. Worse it that there is a recent phenomenon where the side chick will go out of her way to get pregnant, knowing that the man will never leave his "woman" voluntarily. I'm not suggesting that side chick should run to a nunnery and give her baby up for adoption, but come on man, which woman in her right mind would brazenly go out of her way to get pregnant for another woman's man? The world is too full with too many entitled people. I'm just sorry that too many women feel that we have to act like the worst of the straight males and expect respect (because we are cute, fluffy women...awww) or worse, they expect less disrespect and scorn than your average male "ho". Final analysis...Men can be shit and nobody can't tell me that a woman at her conniving worst cannot match a man step for step in dark, selfish thoughts and behaviour.

Like the name says.

I was 21 and in my first proper job. The guy was in his early 40s, my boss, charismatic etc etc etc.

He was married with two children. I had met his wife.

Simply put, I wasn't mature enough and had no real life experience to be able to put myself in her shoes, or realise the magnitude of what I was doing. And at the time, I wasn't actually sure how to say no to that sort of attention. We are all brought up with the idea that attention from a man is the ultimate in approval and validation. And that if a man is paying you attention, and 'loving' you and 'choosing' you, then that is more valid than anyone else's experience of the situation.

I actually only slept with him once, after he had manipulated an away sales trip, and I realised that I actively tried not to think about what had been going on, and hid it from everyone, and that could only be bad. That it wasn't good. And I moved jobs about a month later.

The older I get, the worse I feel about what I did. I will never forgive myself.

NC for this, as I am so ashamed to admit it.

I did the same as Ididitonce. I was 22, very naive, only had one disastrous relationship previously, also with a much older man.

He was my boss. He flattered me from the minute I was employed and I was dazzled by him. Like someone else said, I got all the lies. Didn't sleep with his wife, separate rooms, only together for the children. He'd had previous affairs too, and told me about them, but it was because she didn't trust him, so he may as well.

Difference for me was that he left her for me. I had a horrid horrid 14 year marriage that I should never have been in in the first place. He was an emotional abuser and a control freak and should not have been allowed anywhere near women. He let his children treat me like dirt. I have no doubt he cheated on me many times, I found evidence once and chose to believe he was just looking, after all, I knew what would happen if I didn't trust him, right?

But I brought it all on myself by being a thoughtless selfish bitch, I really did. If I could turn back time, and see what a bastard he was, maybe I wouldn't be such a lonely mess now, I'm unlikely to ever have a relationship again, and I have no real friends, and I'm still and will always be ashamed. You get what you deserve huh?

I agree that the blame lies with the cheater. They are the ones who have made a commitment to their husband/wife/partner/boyfriend/girlfriend.

The OM or OW, are also to blame if they knowingly get involved with someone who is already 'taken'. If they don't know then they can't be held responsible at all.

I just don't understand why any OM or OW, wouldn't just say, they're not interested in pursuing a relationship until the current one that the prospective cheater is in is over and they are available, iykwim? If the prospective cheater is so unhappy and so misunderstood, why haven't they left their spouse/partner already.

Why would anyone be happy to be a 'bit on the side' or a 'try before you buy' person.

I know the exuberance of youth or the 'moment' can sometimes get the better of people, but don't people learn the concept of off limits at school when kids first start 'going out'.

I don't know if this sort of thing has gone on at this rate forever, but it seems that some people chose to live their lives as if they were in a soap opera, definitely a case of life imitating art, or at least rubbish tv.

Why are you assuming ow/om are after monogamy and a serious relationship. Plenty of people are just after something casual. Married dating websites are making loads off that fact.

Affairs are all different. The one with the commitment's the one who is responsible, we are all agreed on that.

Stooshe, you are SO right.My DH's OW started to describe the time since they had last had sex in terms of the number of periods she had had. It was clear to me,when I found that out afterwards, but not to him at the time- god, why are men so stupid - that pregnancy was her goal.She realised that he wouldn't 'commit' to her and decided that the ultimate trap was the route to go. Mercifully - and I thank god - a baby never happened, but I know for sure that it wasn't for want of her trying. She wanted, as you say, to prove that she could extract a married man from his W and DC. When he ended it she couldn't believe that he would choose 'that ugly demented witch' (me) over 'beautiful, body-to-die for' her. Such modesty. Such a fucking bitch.

Your husbands are grown men with free will. I find this thread thread depressing and sexist. Why would unhingea blame herself for a fourteen year abusive relationship with a man who lied to her? Anybody could make that mistake.

Some of the woman language on this thread is grim.

SawofftheOW, do you mind me asking how you know that stuff about the OWs periods?

Life is grim when you discover everything you ever had in your marriage is now ruined with lies.

I'm struggling because I've discoved an emotional affair and to me it is just as horrid if I had discovered that were having sex, I discovered the build up, the emotional getting to know one another, him thinking about her, it's sickening.

un your post made me so sad, it's that realisation that we only have this life and look what has happened to it

Some people are judt plain nasty and selfish. End of thread.

My STBXH had a short affair with a colleague half his age. As soon as I found out I asked him to leave. He didn't go but didn't try and for six weeks we lived in hell. He carried on seeing her unbeknown to me. She kept stalking our house and phoning offering him a life - LOL - he was 45 she was 26. In the end she came to collect him as I told him to go. He packed his bags in front of our 10 year old. I will never forgive him.

However I now tolerate his company. He comes to the house to see children - entirely his choice not mine. I kindly suggested he could join up with us on holiday for a couple of days. He said if he did that he would have nowhere to go on his return as she doesn't trust him with me. I told him I don't shag other people's partners. At the end of the day that is what it comes down to morals and i have buckets more than either of them.

Morals.

This women is my age, failed marriage because he cheated on her and was horrible to her, left her as a single mum to a lovely little girl the same age as our middle daughter, she is now in a new relationship and still, still entered into this, start of what ever the outcome is going to be.

I just don't understand it at all.

I was wondering why women seem to be less sympathetic or empathetic and more critical of other women than they are of men.

Perhaps it is just some survival of the fittest instinct that women fight for themselves and their offspring first and if that means crapping on someone else's doorstep too bad.

But perhaps the fact that from the start women take second place and know they have second place and therefore fight for what they want rather than just assume they will eventually get it, or are entitled to it, like men, and this means that they deliberately harden themselves to other women's, or anyone they have to trample's, emotions.

Entitled is another word on my list.

He is coming across as entitled, put out that I am not putting up with it and have thrown him out, that sounds so dramatic, in truth I put his belongs outside and with a tired, sad, weary plea asked him to give me space.

I don't feel second best to anyone but I do feel the need to protect and teach my children by example of self respect, I've also told them that grown ups some times make mistakes and we don't always know the answer.

My head hurts and my heart feels bruised

I think the OP's question is a valid one, in this case it just happens to be a woman. She has acknowledged that her husband is a shit, but why do some people get involved with people who are married and have children? This is something that I could never do, I feel guilty about everything, the thought of hurting another woman in the worst way possible, devastating her children and ripping a family apart is totally abhorrent to me. Anyone defending the women in this case needs to have a serious look at themselves. Yes, the husband made the vows, but this does not absolve the woman of any responsibility, the woman is just as much to blame, and vice versa if it was the other way around. You must have pretty low morals if you can somehow justify this behaviour.

Well if nobody else is going to mention it...

saw You seem incredibly happy that your DH chose you (after chosing both). All your scorn seems directed at OW. Do you really forgive your DH that much?

Im very clear in my thinking and I don't for one minute believe I have lead any sort of sheltered life.

HE did this to us, HE has blown our little family apart, were we 100% amazingly happy with balancing work, DC, general life? Maybe not but he should have discussed that with me, thought about me, emailed me not her, he shouldn't have started to communicate with her, injecting a thrill in his high pressured senior role, he always had me, he just had to think about our marriage before seeking emotional ego boasts from her.

She knows me, our DC, she got a kick out of the senior manager confiding in her no doubt, what ever her motives or thoughts they certainly weren't for me, her boyfriend or all the DC involved and for that she disgusts me.

I ant believe I am going to face her next week, with my DC by my side and my head held high. I have don't nothing wrong, unlike her.

He is uninvited btw.

God no, it has been terrible and he was a total bastard for a long time. My comment was in response to Stooshe's about women trying to get pregnant to put pressure on him to leave his W and DC. How did I know about her measuring the frequency of their sexual relationship by her periods? Well she was generous enough to send me all the intimate emails and texts they had exchanged, just so I would understand the extent of his disloyalty and betrayal. She hoped that my devastation on seeing them would trigger me to throw him out. At that point I had fought for six months to regain my marriage - we had been wonderfully happy over many years and the dreadful time we went through before his affair was atypical. He never made any move to leave but struggled with his besottedness with her. It tore me apart but like some others on this site, I wasn't prepared to give up on a 16 year marriage and for the sake of our 3 DC without a fight - the OW had no RIGHT to come into my life and my marriage, just as he had no RIGHT to fuck her in our home when I was away with work and our DC were at Scouts/cubs. If he chose to go ultimately, so be it. I would have been beyond devastation as he is the love of my life, but I wasn't prepared to let a predatory woman take him from his family without making my and our case vociferously. Believe me, I have no illusions about his willingness to get involved with her and he was as culpable as her. But when he decided to end and attempt to repair an utterly desecrated and devastated marriage, she became incredibly vicious and threw everything at me to try and prompt me to throw him out. We moved jobs (he worked with her) and ultimately home such was her determination to stay in our lives. In the end the police were involved as they considered my personal safety was at risk. So believe me no one can suggest I am 'incredibly pleased' about anything. He was appalling, she was appalling and I was traduced by them both. But I had read Andrew Marshall and Shirley Glass's books about the 'bubble world' that an affair exists within and I hoped that once the fantasy was broken, he might see reason. He is now totally remorseful and would do anything to unkiss that first kiss, to not have said 'yes' when she first suggested coffee. She, however, has no remorse about the pain and humiliation she inflicted on her H and 2 DCs - she told me so herself and said she would do it all again if she could because she will always want him.

Saw I am so sorry to read your post and what you have been through.

I'm thinking from a different view maybe, he made his choices to instigate this EA and she made the choice to engage.

Now I have discovered it I am the one that makes the decisions not him and especially not her, I mean, he isn't a catch right now is he? If he can't remain solid and faithful in a marriage of 10Yrs + with many emotional events under our belt how long does she think she can keep him engaged for before he sets his targets on the next bit of excitement that walks into the building with access to a computer and mobile phone?

Right now he disgusts me and so does she, I'm getting wrinkles with al this sour face pulling whilst typing.

Oh and I'm still on anti-D's although 2.5 years on I hope I can start weaning myself off them. So no pleasure in any of it. None at all. But I won't deny that I hate her totally and anyone who had seen at first hand her attempts to destroy me, and my H, personally and professionally since she realised that she was not going to become his second wife would understand why. I owe her nothing and certainly not forgiveness. And before you ask, I haven't forgiven him and I suspect I never will but I have had to learn to live with it. I wasn't a volunteer for any of it and neither were our DCs.

Saw I'm so sorry.

Some human beings can be such cruel creatures