Not really sure what just happened with DH

[Roundtheruggedrocks]

I got upset with DH last night because, once again, he didn't want to have sex. He says he's very tired/exhausted/just can't put the effort in right now (he is managing a stressful billion pound deal for various parties/clients, so responsibility all on him), even though I have asked him to make an effort with me to improve our sex life. I also ovulated last night and we had agreed while cuddling in bed that we were going to have sex, so I got ready for bed and came out to find him having left the bed and in the living room watching TV. He then turned all the lights off, said goodnight and turned over.

I (very calmly) pointed out that he had just said we were going to have sex. He said no I'm too tired and I got upset and said I really needed to have sex more than once every month (we are virtual newlyweds with no DCs) within our marriage because I loved the intimacy of it.

He then got extremely cross with me and started shouting. He said I made his life stressful and listed various jobs around the house I had not done (cleaning sofa covers, sewing buttons on his shirt etc) and told me I knew "nothing." "Nothing about sex, about relationships, about love, money, about hard work." He said he was trying to manage our lives and finances, protect and secure us money for the future after providing me with a great home and good life and here I was "offended," he was too tired to have sex.He carried on to say that I was not his equal, that being with me was like an adult being with a lazy child wanting her needs satisfied every day.

I told him that I had not accused him of anything I had just told him something I wanted and I understood how much pressure he was under and please don't make it so personal and bring our entire relationship into question, but the fuse was already lit (he has a tendency to go off on one once he's started.) so most of the night he starts accusing me of things - that I will definitely cheat on him because my sex drive is so high and he can't satisfy it. That I must be mentally unhinged. He then leaves the room and comes back in and tells me he's decided I'm depressed and I need help (I'm not.)

I recently got sacked from a job and lost one of my close friends and he turns both into something that is my fault - you're lazy, you don't work hard enough, your friend X is a shit friend, but so are all of your friends you can't rely on any of them - if you really want to put the world to rights, start with your shit friendships and forget your dissatisfaction about sex.

On and on until 4am.

He provides everything and works very hard. I do work (did until I got sacked last week) and I am not lazy, although I admit I am not the most practical person on earth.

At 4am once his stream of consciousness/accusations have run out, he starts poking me under the covers and pulling my knickers down. Now, of course, is not the time I feel like having sex. So I say no and he uses that as yet more fuel for the fire of my "fickle, satisfaction-based personality."

Have woken up this morning and feel like I'ce been hit by a bus. What do you think has happened?

It seems to me that you need to extricate toxic people from your life and that seems to include your OH as well as your father, if not more. :(

Can you get in touch with your cousin?

In reply to garlicnutty re sex: When we do actually have sex, he does not behave in a worse manner than before. Often he says it was great and he compliments me etc. It's very hard to describe what sex with him is like... all I can do is compare it to past relationships.

There is no sexual dialogue with DH... each act of sex is treated like a separate act, totally unrelated to the others or a "sex life." It's like every time we have sex is a one off. Maybe that's just the feeling anyone gets when you do it so seldom.

DH told me to take a hard line with my job and threaten to leave if they didn't meet my requirements (eg more money, different working hours,) they called my bluff and suggested I went elsewhere, so that's how I became jobless.

Why do I get the feeling that this was exactly what he wanted to happen?

Thank you for your updates, Round, and I'm sorry I misjudged your therapist. When I did similar work, I made the connections for myself as I came to understand more about my parents' relationship and my relationships with them. Seems to be what's happening for you, too. Tough, at times, isn't it?

I've not heard the phrase 'sexual dialogue' before. It's a perfect term for the intimate knowledge of each other that builds up during the course of a relationship. Or usually does, anyway.

You can't live your life with someone you don't trust.

Life is too long to live it in a shit relationship.

You can't stay married because your family don't "do" divorce.

My MIL would pass out if we divorced but that doesn't mean I would stay married even though I have no one else but my dh.

You deserve better and any future children deserve a decent father. Your H is not it.

garlicsmutty sorry for calling you garlicnutty!

Lweji I would love to be able to wipe my life clean of all toxic people. But my father always told me that if you look around you and find problems with everyone, then the problem is actually you. And I have been gaslighted so much that I am totally confused about who has got my back and who hasn't. Whether there is something wrong with me or with the people in my life. I'm sorry it appears so weak, but that's the state I'm in at the moment.

My therapist is trying to unpick it with me and at the moment is treating it like exit counselling from a cult.

Do some people get surrounded by a lot of toxic people and other people not at all?

Behind it all is fear, for me.

Your father is right, but it seems that the toxic ones are your OH and your dad.

Is it possible that your mum would support you if it were not for your dad? Is he abusive towards her?

Anyway, you might feel more confident about yourself if you do distance yourself from them.
You may even find yourself being a nicer person. :)

Round my parents are similar to yours and i am in a sexless marriage of 17 yrs standing. I sent you a PM late last night.

Round you may find this site an interesting read. Its about ending victim blaming in society.

everydayvictimblaming.com/view-most-recent-submissions/

You were not mistaken, Round, I am nutty

Do some people get surrounded by a lot of toxic people?

Yes. Oh, how my family used to laugh about the soldier who complained, "Everybody's out of step except me!" That kept us all in step ... with the power-crazed lunatic who was head of my family Your therapist's a bloody genius. I'm envious!! Took me ten years of painful therapy to finally come up with that cult analogy for myself. To paraphrase the Facebook meme: if you feel like you're surrounded by nutters, first check that you're not in fact surrounded by nutters. (That came out all wrong, but maybe you'll get it.)

To briefly summarise what you already know: Sociopaths bring up their children (and train their partner) to live according to the values it suits them to instil - basically, they create their own little platoon, marching to their drum. I can't remember if you've mentioned siblings? Most sociopathic parents allocate various predictable roles to their kids - Scapegoat, Angel, Dumbo, Devil, etc - sometimes switching them around for added instability. When you grew up like this, it's plain your idea of how love & relationships work is different from everyone else's 'normal'. However, this isn't plain to you or your other family members. You are, therefore, fully primed to love and form relationships with other sociopaths and people who grew up in similar environments to yours.

Things got so bad, I started to hear myself saying Weird Things that made other people go quiet for a moment, although they seemed like simple facts of life to me. Then I found a therapist. There's a nauseous, nightmarish quality to the transition from taking stuff for granted, which 'normal' people find scary or freakish, to their more rational world of 'normal'. It's like taking the red pill in The Matrix - a similie you might find repeated on the Emotional Abuse threads, which I recommend to you.

All I can say is it's much easier than you think it will be. The fear of looking through Alice's mirror is a fear bestowed on you by those who "indoctrinated" or trained you. You tend to find it's okay, really - very disorientating, but the 'normal' has been there all along. It was just squashed down by the Mad Parent who insisted you were wrong and out of step. Some branches of psychology call this innate wisdom "Little Professor" or "Wonder Child" - you get the idea; something in your psyche resisted the training, and that something is very powerful.

Try not to swamp yourself. I'm a bit worried that my posts might be doing that. Just TAKE CARE OF YOU ... as if You were a trusting schoolgirl, and you were charged with her well-being :) :)

Op, just wanted to say that even if your counsellor is planning on helping you understand your relationship after understanding your childhood, YOU can steer the counselling on to your relationship if that is what you want. If you can see your relationship is no good now, it might be a good time to move on to it.

I was having counselling to sort out my childhood when my h did something really awful, which previously I might have conveniently forgotten because I couldn't deal with it. Instead, my counsellor had helped me to have my own point of view, and I made h leave. And now I go to my counsellor to sort out the wreckage.

Just for some perspective: my DH works incredibly long hours, handles high-profile projects for a high-profile company, travels a lot on business, is under a lot of pressure to deliver in his job and is the sole earner right now. He is TIRED!!! Really really tired a lot of the time.

His tiredness does not mean, however, that he is too tired for sex with me. It does mean that he would not have the energy to start a 4 hour rant at me into the small hours of the morning.

The stress at work is a red herring. Someone who is in a genuinely high pressure, intense job does not have the energy for strip clubs, 4 hour arguments and ranting. My DH works, eats, talks to me / DS and sleeps. That's about it.

Your DH's excuses are bullshit, Round. He sounds like he has a lot of issues with women. Possibly he has used prostitutes, strippers, masseuses (from your other thread) so much that he has no respect for women as sexual beings anymore? I think a lot of men who are into that commoditized sex have problems loving someone and also having sex with them because to them sex is cheap and dirty, not something they do with a woman they love and respect. His issues with women sound immense so unless he is willing to see a counsellor and sort his head out, it doesn't sound like you are heading in a positive direction.

wow patronizing garlic. as you were.

Eh? Was I?

... If you found me patronising, Round, I apologise. Unintentional.

Typical MN.

If a man demanded sex of a stressed woman and then sulked when it was denied him, I wonder how the thread would have gone. Not very nice to talk about your "needs", hardly likely to get anyone in the mood for sex. It sounds like you need a vibrator rather than a loving partner.

On the other hand, he does not sound very nice either and should have been supportive over all the other issues that you mention and should not shout etc. It is a really unhealthy dynamic for both of you.

To be honest, OP, I have to ask what you see in him and vice versa? It sounds like you are completely incompatible. There are no children yet; so leave. What, really, are the alternatives?

Copied from Napa Cabs post for your benefit grylls.

Someone who is in a genuinely high pressure, intense job does not have the energy for strip clubs, 4 hour arguments and ranting.

fwiw, I don't think garlic's post was patronising.

Ranting is not rational. It can easily be a response to stress. Anyway, as I said, based on the op, both her and her partner are not terribly nice to one another. I am ovulating ergo give me sex is not what I would term a romantic and affectionate approach.

I thought garlic's post was pretty empathetic.

And I seem to recall Larry from other threads and wouldn't worry too much about his words.

Larry, sorry mate but you're talking shite

Larry, he told op he wanted children and persuaded her round to his point of view on wanting children.
In order to concieve children, there must be some sex.
OP has figured out she is ovulating and mentions it to her h. They agree to have sex.
OP goes off to brush her teeth etc, comes back to h no longer in bed.
She goes and asks him what is going on and then gets ranted at for four hours.
Can you not see how twisted he is? Really?
This post is for the benefit of Larry, everyone else.

"I feel that LTB is difficult when I have no evidence of anything. "

The problem with an emotionally abusive relationship is that, because you have been groomed to accept the unacceptable (by your family and now your partner), it's going to have to be evidence of something particularly off the scale appalling before you do anything to save yourself. I tell you now that this will never happen because, as time goes on, you will acclimatise to even more unacceptable behaviour, there will be no evidence beyond your own experiences, and nothing will ever seem to be bad enough to LTB.

I'm sorry your confidence has been smashed so much and that your 'we don't do divorce' family are unsupportive. Do they belong to some archaic religion to have that attitude?

I'm glad you have therapist helping you unpick and make life inside the cage a little better but, sometimes in life, you have to take a leap of faith & get yourself out of the cage first Then do the unpicking... it's much easier.

Larry, sorry mate but you're talking shite
This.

How typical Larry.

Sometimes I wonder if he is salaried by F4J, coming here spouting that women should take all crap men throw their way.