Not really sure what just happened with DH

[Roundtheruggedrocks]

I got upset with DH last night because, once again, he didn't want to have sex. He says he's very tired/exhausted/just can't put the effort in right now (he is managing a stressful billion pound deal for various parties/clients, so responsibility all on him), even though I have asked him to make an effort with me to improve our sex life. I also ovulated last night and we had agreed while cuddling in bed that we were going to have sex, so I got ready for bed and came out to find him having left the bed and in the living room watching TV. He then turned all the lights off, said goodnight and turned over.

I (very calmly) pointed out that he had just said we were going to have sex. He said no I'm too tired and I got upset and said I really needed to have sex more than once every month (we are virtual newlyweds with no DCs) within our marriage because I loved the intimacy of it.

He then got extremely cross with me and started shouting. He said I made his life stressful and listed various jobs around the house I had not done (cleaning sofa covers, sewing buttons on his shirt etc) and told me I knew "nothing." "Nothing about sex, about relationships, about love, money, about hard work." He said he was trying to manage our lives and finances, protect and secure us money for the future after providing me with a great home and good life and here I was "offended," he was too tired to have sex.He carried on to say that I was not his equal, that being with me was like an adult being with a lazy child wanting her needs satisfied every day.

I told him that I had not accused him of anything I had just told him something I wanted and I understood how much pressure he was under and please don't make it so personal and bring our entire relationship into question, but the fuse was already lit (he has a tendency to go off on one once he's started.) so most of the night he starts accusing me of things - that I will definitely cheat on him because my sex drive is so high and he can't satisfy it. That I must be mentally unhinged. He then leaves the room and comes back in and tells me he's decided I'm depressed and I need help (I'm not.)

I recently got sacked from a job and lost one of my close friends and he turns both into something that is my fault - you're lazy, you don't work hard enough, your friend X is a shit friend, but so are all of your friends you can't rely on any of them - if you really want to put the world to rights, start with your shit friendships and forget your dissatisfaction about sex.

On and on until 4am.

He provides everything and works very hard. I do work (did until I got sacked last week) and I am not lazy, although I admit I am not the most practical person on earth.

At 4am once his stream of consciousness/accusations have run out, he starts poking me under the covers and pulling my knickers down. Now, of course, is not the time I feel like having sex. So I say no and he uses that as yet more fuel for the fire of my "fickle, satisfaction-based personality."

Have woken up this morning and feel like I'ce been hit by a bus. What do you think has happened?

[larrygrylls]

Qod,

The sheer hypocrisy of responders to this post versus responders to similar threads where the sexes were reversed is breathtaking.

The amusing thing is that I did not suggest that the op should take her husband's "crap". I suggested that neither of them seemed to make one another happy so they might as well call it a day.

Those determined to use the lens of abuse and "grooming" to view every argument will surely find it. No one seems to notice the way op seems to talk about her husband. It is all about her needs and nothing to do with him as a person. That does not make him any better, though. It strikes me as a marriage where he supplies the money and organisation and she supplies the home life and glamour. However those kind of relationships often sour where neither really cared for the other.

[bigstrongmama]

What Cog said. Get away.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

"Those determined to use the lens of abuse and "grooming" to view every argument will surely find it"

I'm insulted by that dumbed-down assessment, frankly. I do not use the word abuse without very good reason and I try to judge every story on the basis not only of what's been written but the way it has been written. Unlike yourself I don't offer a prejudiced verdict and then change the evidence to fit....

[garlicsmutty]

OP's account of her husband's 4-hour tirade against her is an account of abuse, clear and simple.

Reminding your not-very-interested-in-sex husband that you're ovulating, when he's been pressing for a baby, is being helpful not abusive.

[garlicsmutty]

... and, Larry, you might feign surprise to hear that a woman who'd spewed verbal vitriol at her husband for hours, after he reminded her of an appointment to conceive, would get little sympathy for her behaviour here.

Can't you go and pick nits on AIBU or something?

[PoundlandClareRayner]

larry thinks shouting is "not very nice"

that's about the extent of his understanding of the dynamics of a relationship like this

ho-kayyyy

[Roundtheruggedrocks]

Garlicsmutty I didn't think you were at all patronising. Your and Cognito's advice has given me a lot to think about and I have been digesting it over the last few days.

Cogito you are very right about the grooming concept.

I don't understand when people say "why are you even with this man?" People say it a lot on MN. People are with each other for reasons it's hard to express. Obviously some part of my conditioning attracts me to people like him, it makes me feel "safe" (in a fucked up way.) I think he's funny, he thinks I'm funny, we make each other laugh, I find him very attractive, we have the same interest in architecture and furniture, we both love animals and can sit in a park and talk about each individual pigeon, deer, dog, duck we see for hours... etc etc etc

[Twattergy]

Yes OP you can love a partner, think they are sexy, havea laugh with them, share interests. All comes to nothing if they are not able to give you what you need to feel safe secure, valued, respected, understood. Just because you love him doesn't mean he can be the partner you need and deserve.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Just because your father is a bully and just because your family seem to be very controlling, you are not conditioned to be attracted to controlling bullies. You were attracted to an individual and they happen to be a bully. It's a very important distinction when it comes to the responsibility for the behaviour. i.e. You're not 'fucked up'... they are.

[PoundlandClareRayner]

No, garlic's posts are not patronising. They are insightful even if you just don't "get" half of it.

I say if you don't "get" it, you are lucky.

[garlicsmutty]

Thanks.

Cog's point is very important there ... While it's true that bullies may be attracted to people whose history renders them vulnerable to bullying, this is NOT the same as vulnerable people being attracted to bullies!

Some bullies work extremely hard to pull their chosen targets towards them. With this in mind, Round, I wonder whether each of you pursued those same shared interests before you met? It's just a thought ... but ... does he have loads of pictures of himself with the animals he so loves? Who was the architecture fan; you or him? Does he have a background in architecture; any souvenirs of his visits to Florence or, say, Bilbao? (Where did he stay when he visited?)

Yes, I'm a suspicious old bag. So sue me

[YoniBottsBumgina]

I used to think that too OP, when I first posted about my now ex and people said "well why are you with him?" I was totally bemused and all I could think was "Why wouldn't I be with him? He's my partner and I love him."

I don't know where along the line my perception changed but I now have such a totally different idea of relationships, where the emphasis is totally the opposite - this is going to sound totally bizarre and maybe even negative but whereas before my thought pattern was to keep the relationship as a default sort of option and something would have to be really, terribly awful and bad to leave, now my thought pattern is that a relationship had better be pretty damn special and add something substantial to my life for me to continue to be in it. That doesn't mean that my relationship is all hearts and flowers all the time, but DP is always supportive, always a friend, we have fun, we make future plans, we are at the stage where every day doesn't have to be amazing but we have this awesome trust and easiness, connectedness and friendship which has built up. He makes my home a fun place to be, and warm, safe and comforting. I look at the man he is and admire him; I would be proud if my children grew up and were influenced by him. On the good days, we share, we laugh, we have fun. On the bad days he is there for me and we pick each other up and we carry on. He inspires me and he says that I inspire him. We are not too proud to learn from one another. He adds more to my life than I ever thought possible from a relationship. And if he didn't, I honestly wouldn't want to be in it.

Now, I'm not just going on about my perfect life/man/relationship because I want to gloat or any other thing but because since I changed ny perspective on relationships, let alone experienced it for myself, I have become almost evangelical about it. Nobody deserves a crap relationship, and it makes ne so fed up to hear all the bollocks I was unaware of before, that we're fed all the time, that a relationship is something to be held onto at all costs, that we (women) are somehow responsible for the "success" of a relationship, causing us to feel guilty if we walk out over anything less than the worst transgressions (and often we are even made to feel guilty about the man's cheating or violence). That relationships are hard work - really, no, or at least only in the way that a good friendship is hard work because it means that you expend emotional energy on someone else, not because they are supposed to be a constant battleground.

Basically, being in a relationship because, well, why not - is a bit lame. Marriage is supposed to be for life. When you're old and wrinkly and crumbling and you can't get out and do much any more do you want your main companion to be someone who right now, when life, health, youth, time and money are all on your side is a bit lame? You think that's going to improve with age and loss of health etc?

You don't have to wait for some kind of evidence to show up. You don't need to prove anything in a court room. You could decide tomorrow that you don't like his taste in socks and walk out of the door forever. As could I. You don't owe him a relationship, he does not have some kind of divine right to be with you. It is totally your choice whether you want to be with him or not and it is within your rights to decide that, and act on it either way.

[YoniBottsBumgina]

And meant to add - this kind of relationship is nothing rare or special. It is in fact the bare minimum you can expect when you raise your standards and stop accepting crappy treatment in relationships, hanging on to crumbs because you are afraid there is nothing better or that you "have to put up with the bad to get thegogood" Nope. I don't know why all of these horrible relationship myths are so prevalent but they are, and the good news is you can just stop listening to them and refuse to accept it.

[PoundlandClareRayner]

[garlicsmutty]

[YoniBottsBumgina]

thank you!

[Jux]

OP, you don't actually have to prove anything to anyone. You can tell your parents that he makes you miserable, if you have to tell them something, and that you don't want to talk about it. I hope that your therapist is helping you to detach from them enough to not have to worry about their demands. The quicker the better.

It sounds like you have good friends - hang on to them - and you have a cousin who has borne the weight of family disapproval. Can you contact her? Would she understand how coerced you were into accepting their stance? Would she forgive you? Would she help you now?

You are not alone.

(Sometimes, I think people say "why are you with this man" as a kind of short-hand when they read of a situation so intolerable they are rendered speechless. It is a form of emphasis. Perhaps there've already been some fantastic posts from people like Cogito, Garlic and Darkesteyes which cannot be followed by mere mortals such as myself so something simple to show agreement with the general consensus is all that is needed.)

[HotDAMNlifeisgood]

(I think people ask OP "why are you with this man" to get the OP to consider whether she is in the relationship out of habit and a sense of obligation, or whether it is a relationship that is an actively positive part of her life.)

[springytata]

You weren't badgering him for sex. You both agreed you'd have sex (also that you were ovulating and it was he who had pushed to have kids), you went off to get yourself ready; came back and he was gone. You said 'what happened? I thought we were having sex?' He then subjected you to a tirade lasting until 4 in the morning. Then wanted to fuck you, against your will by then

He is an abuser. He is training you. Whipping the rug from under your feet is classic abuser tactics. You were probably confused when he disappeared and genuinely asked 'what's happening?' How dare you even ask. it is your job to obey and to sew on buttons.

How interesting that he 'caused' you to lose your job. How terrifying for you to be financially dependent on him (it is a red herring that he gives you full access to 'his' account).

Plenty of people are stressed to the hilt and don't behave like this. He could be a dustman and behave in the same way - abusers are curiously uniform and follow a transparent script. It is transparent once you know it, that is. To that end, it might be an idea to sign up to the Freedom Programme . This should clarify things a bit for you.

This is hard to say, much harder to hear, but abusers often mould themselves around you, practically breathing the same breathes in sinc, to crowd you to the point where you can't think. Hence the tremendous compatibility. I'm not sure if what they do is conscious (though that isn't an excuse) but it is a deadly tactic. I would say that my ex (abuser) and I were deeply intellectually compatible and I haven't found the same with anyone since. It's dispiriting to realise that the 'compatibility' was fake, all the better to disarm you, take you apart like a mechanic takes apart a machine.

You can do what you like in therapy, you don't have to follow a pattern. You may find that concentrating on what is happening in your frighteningly abusive marriage will, anyway, link directly to your father's abuse - two birds with one stone. (Poor you. And poor me, as it happens. Poor lots of us. It is so obvious why we ended up with abusers).

Although the red flags are thick and banked up, to me the biggest indicator that you are in an abusive relationship is that you feel so confused. Abusers jam your airwaves - this is intentional. Things skip around alarmingly, you don't know what is going to happen next. They are kind and lovely and everything's 'normal'; then out of the blue a shit storm hits and you have no idea what it is, where it comes from, where its going, what it means. Except you are profoundly confused - and, as they labour this point endlessly, it's your fault. Abusers are so convincing.

Good luck my darling. You have to leave him - I'm sorry to be so certain but this will get worse. It's already pretty bad. It may be an idea to contact Womens Aid to work towards putting together a strategy to leave.

[springytata]

DO NOT HAVE THERAPY WITH HIM.

(sorry to shout)

[garlicsmutty]

What a wise, strong post, Springy. How are you getting along, Round?

[Jux]

Everything Springy said. Listen to her, op, she is wise beyond words.

[HaveIGotPoosForYou]

I hope you are revaluating the relationship, OP.

You shouldn't have to put up with any of this.

He isn't better than you.
He isn't smarter than you.
He has no more power than you do.
He has no more rights than you do.

That is all.

[DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved]

Hi there, I'm another one saying Don't Have Therapy With Him ...

I had couples therapy before I realised I was in an abusive relationship. It was awful :( the councellor told me I was selfish and manipulative as I didn't want to have sex with h straight after an argument, same type as yours... The ranting screaming ragged destructive arguments that went on all night. He didn't care if I was physically read and he used to make me bleed... But apparently I was selfish and should realise men use sex to demonstrate love and I was manipulative to refuse it. She ignored me when I said it hurt.

Just one of many many things that was all sorts of wrong about that year of councelling. It screwed me up so much and validated all the gas lighting and abuse and tool another few years of hell before I got out. Don't do that to yourself!