How much access to DC does your ex have?

[JemimaPuddlefuck]

Hi,

Sorry, I have just posted this in "Lone Parents" thread as well but realised that there may be more traffic on this one.

I am in the process of setting down how much access my ex should have with our DD. I am thinking either a Saturday or Sunday 10:30am - 4:30pm. I don't in principle have anything against overnight stays, but he does not live somewhere that is appropriate for her to stay the night.

Is this reasonable (I know without a doubt that my ex will not find this reasonable, he will want to come everyday!).

I suppose I would like to know what the norm is (if there is one) and also what I have suggested above is reasonable.

I had previously said that I would go for Christmas this year and also the holiday in August. I said this despite not feeling comfortable about it. Now I want to change my mind.

Do you want to not go now? If you were only considering it because you felt pushed into it then you are still entitled to say no, not yet, or not ever if that's what you want. I know your more anxious because your DD is so young still, but it won't always be that way. It's much easier when they can talk clearly and understand things like holidays, visiting grand parents etc. especially if they have good memories of past visits.

Do what you are comfortable with and nothing more. You can say no if you want.

Sounds like we do have the same ex laeiou!

The last time we went to visit his family was earlier this year. We went for a family do which I did'nt attend (I stayed at my ex's relative's house that we were staying with on my own). This was a few months ago so she would only have been about 1 and half years old. He brought her back after 11pm! He said that he just enjoyed showing her off to all the family etc. He does do this kind of thing a lot - showing her off to friends and family and not really taking into consideration that she is so little and needs her sleep etc.

The way I feel is that I don't want to go over AT ALL. But I don't know if this is just massively unreasonable and mean of me. But then again, I have said she can go over when she is older. She is not going to remember any visits she has when she is this young.

I don't know if I mentioned this already but I have been having counselling for quite a few months now and when I mentioned to my therapist that ex wanted us to go to his family again this summer, she said that she was dismayed and concerned that I would even be considering this bearing in mind how anxious I was in run up to my last visit.

Jemima that does put a whole different spin on things tbh. If you went before and he didn't use that occasion to reassure in how he can put your DD's needs ahead of his desire to 'show her off' then I think I understand more where you are coming from.

If you feel you can be strong enough to withstand the response you'll get to changing your mind then you should do that. Ultimately he cannot be unaware just how he has been overstepping in your life, and the downside is that means you won't accommodate him requests for help with long distance holidays etc.

I think for the sake of long term harmony you need to be honest about the holidays and deal with the fall out by ignoring him completely.

Ex came and picked up DD for his agreed 2 hours. I got a text from him at lunchtime saying that he could not possibly have time to give her her dinner during his allocated slot so could I give her her dinner at 4pm. I replied saying no as she has her dinner between 5 and 6pm and that it is unfair on DD to change her routine. He came back saying that it is not fair of me to expect him to go to the shops, cook and then feed her as this will take up most of his time with her and that he wants to take her to the park instead. I responded saying that what he will need to do is be a bit more organised and make sure that he has food at his home that he can easily prepare for her rather than wait to get the food during his time with her. I said that for today only i will prepare her dinner which I will give to him when I hand her over and he can feed her at his. I cooked some pasta and put it in a tupperware box and in another box put some strawberries for her dessert.

When he came to pick her up he was all huffy saying where is he supposed to feed her - "on the swings?" (said in a really sarcastic way). I said no, not the swings, either at his house or even a picnic table at the park. He said that it will take him ages to get to his and that by the time they get there she will be too tired to eat anything. He literally lives less than half a mile from me, he has a car, it will take him less than 5 minutes to drive there!

It just feels like he is trying to get out of doing the practical side of having a child, like feeding her, washing her etc. He just wants to be "fun Dad" and take her to the park etc.

With regard to the visiting his family issue, I have decided that I am going to tell him tonight (probably) via email that I will not be going at all to visit his family. He can take her on her own when she is older - specifically when she is at least 5 years old. But I will say to him that his family is more than welcome to visit us here. Does that sound fair enough?

Sounds entirely reasonable to me. I think you are right, he is trying to manipulate you into backing down on your new found assertiveness, and rather than discuss in an adult way he's resorting to the sarcastic digs. If all he wants is fun time and no actual parenting time, then he'll need to arrange his contact so as to allow for that i.e. no mid week pick ups over dinner time to have fun time etc. He can't have it both ways - he either wants her at the agreed time, and deals with her needs, or he accepts that he cannot see her at the time agreed, and sees her for 'fun time' less frequently.

I had a similar scenarios with my ex, in that he huffed and puffed because I refused to organise and supply everything for our DD for a holiday he booked. He expected me to buy all her clothes, suncream, arrange jags etc. and just turn up on the day and pick her up fully prepared. I stuck to my guns, and it worked out in the end. I had 4/5 months of the huffing and puffing though!

Stick to your guns, don't back down and eventually he'll realise that being a dad isn't all 'disney' and fun. It also involves parenting, responsibility and 'grunt' work too.

I think you are right over the meals & responsibility & should stick to your guns.

Saying he can't take DD away until she is 5 doesn't seem reasonable to me, why not say not this year but you can revisit in a year? I expect you will find DD changes a lot - there is a big difference between 2 & 3 in my experience.

About the meals- the idea that a young child could eat their dinner 1-2 hours before their normal mealtime tells us exactly how tuned into her your ex is. I think it'd be worthwhile saving or keeping a written record of these communications. It's all about him, isn't it ? He wants a fun time aft the park so you and your dd best fit in with his plans.

About the trip. I'd say that you don't think she's able for the journey this year and propose rethinking things in the future. No specific age. Tbh even if you were together it'd be a lot of work and she may find it difficult. Being away from you, in an unfamiliar home with a dad who doesn't understand her needs is worrying and I wouldn't want it. I would try to avoid concepts like permision though, keep it about her needs and the practicalities. E.g. she's not used to mire than a few hours with him, no weekends as yet, she needs to have long periods with him locally before doing it far away.

Fair points about being more flexible about age limit of trips. What I think I will say is that we won't go this year but I will reassess how I feel next year. I definitely don't feel comfortable about him taking her without me at this stage, nor do I feel like I want to go myself as a sort of chaperone. The idea of either just fills me with dread.

I think the issue with the meals today did really highlight for me how out of tune he is with DD's needs and routine. And yes, he wants me and DD to fit into his plans so he can have fun time with DD without any of the bearing of responsibility in terms of looking after her.

I've just sent ex an email stating that I have been thinking a lot about the trips penciled in for this year and that right now I don't feel comfortable with either option of going myself or with ex taking DD on his own. I said that I will reassess how I feel with regard to any potential trips next year. I also pointed out that his family are more than welcome to come and visit us any time they wish.

When he returned after the park, did he thank you for providing dinner? He clearly didn't when he collected dd. I'm angry on your behalf!

After today's immature behaviour I expect he'll be silly no matter what you wrote in the email. As long as you're happy with it, ignore his petulant response. Stick to your own judgement. His is not great, is it?

No he did'nt say thank you laeiou. I asked him if she ate much and he just said that yeah she ate quite a lot.

I'm still waiting for a response to my email. I think it will be quite a biggie for him as he loves showing DD off to family etc and is always going on about how much he likes visiting his family with her. But I feel much better for sending it as I've expressed my feelings.

My ex is similar in expecting me to do all the practical stuff for his contact. It can mean more work than if ds was just art home with me. I want to change this but need to do the basics so my 2yo is ok.

I feel like if I don't hand him everything that she needs he won't think of providing it for her. Actually sometimes even when I do give him stuff I don't think he has the initiative to use them. Like for example on Sunday, in the bag I gave him when I handed her over, I put in a bottle of water and also a sterilized milk bottle with a ready made aptimil milk bottle. When I checked the bag when he got back, the water was hardly touched and he had'nt used the milk bottle at all. She was completely parched. Its a worry because it was so hot on Sunday.

He has just replied to my email. All it said is "Zen". I'm interpreting that this means he is massively pissed off and that he is trying to regain his composure....

I think you are being unreasonable saying she is too young to be without you however it would be perfectable sensible and reasonable to stipulate that once he is used to having her overnight on his own to progress to taking her away

Keep a record of incidents like him not giving her the milk when out, and his demand for food for her today. If possible keep a diary of contact, the good and the bad.

It may just be useful someday, and will certainly show if he starts to learn at all.

If it was a case of his family living down the road I would have no problems at all with DD visiting or staying with them. But like I have said, they live a 12 hour drive away. I feel a very strong need to be physically close to her. At not quite 2 years old, I feel in my gut that she is simply too young to go with her dad on her own and this is further justified by his lack of experience of looking after her for long periods of time, having had no overnight stays (both being out of ex's choice) and also the fact that when she is with him he does things (like not giving her enough fluids on a hot day). He needs to build my trust a bit more before I will be close enough to even consider it.

I completely understand how you feel but be aware if he went to court over contact he would likely be awarded it. Put a positive spin explaining how he needs to build up to having her for weekends on his own before she will cope with being away from you at his parents IYSWIM.

Why would he take me to Court to fight for access when I have offered him access i.e. weekday and weekend access together with a chance for overnight stays, which he has declined? Would he really take me to Court and win the chance to take his DD to visit his family when he has not made any effort to get accommodation sorted for her to stay in the town that we live? He currently has zero experience of looking after her on his own for a period of time over, say 7 hours? He has never had her for the night. The ball being in his court to organise this. So he could take me to court and argue that he does'nt want to have DD for any overnight stays or contribute at all to her day-to-day care, but once or twice a year he would like to take her on his own on holiday? And a Court would agree this?

Jemima that is a risk yes, remember the courts protect the child's right to have a relationship with both parents etc. Just point out the obvious to him that he needs to have overnights with her before she would be happy and settled for him to take her away from you anywhere else - leave the ball back in his court rather than you saying "no" you can't take her. Not sure if I'm able to express what I'm trying to say.

Jemima I think what random is trying to point out is that, at the moment your ex chooses to live somewhere he thinks your DD can't stay overnight and only does the bear minimum in terms of being responsible when caring for your DD as he's happy to lay all that at your door. Your feelings about your DD being too young to be too far away from you are actually supported by his current arrangements and if he kicks off about your refusal to go on Hols then you can again use his current lack of more practical involvement and responsibility to 'motivate' him to do more for your DD. When he does more, and is able to show he is capable of meeting your DD's needs in every way, at that point you'll likely change your stance on his family visits. But, it'll take quite a while to get to that point from the position you are in now so all that's needed is to put it to your ex, in the terms random says, and that brings the sort of timescale that gives you the time for your DD to get older, and thus you both being more able to cope with bring apart at a later stage etc. Does that make sense? I'm on my phone so can't read that back properly!

Basically, your ex needs you close by to meet your DD's needs, and so far he has done very little of the basic care/meeting your DD's needs without your input. It's the reason he wants you there when he visits his family. And that forms part of your reasoning over why it's too far away/too long for your DD at this stage in her life - so all he needs to do is sort his own set up out to take more responsibility on day to day stuff, progress to overnights and see how your DD copes with that before you get to thinking about 12 he car journeys etc.

My XH left last Easter and lodged with friends who said he couldn't have DD overnight. It took him six months to get his own place.

DD is now five and XH makes no effort to see her in the week, rings her if he remembers and has her once a fortnight from 10am Sat to 6pm Sunday. He refuses to have her in the holidays as he is too busy working.

That is all his own choice. He whines on Facebook how he misses his own dad who died 20 years ago yet makes no time for his own DD.

These men make a lifestyle choice and it is a selfish one that doesn't include their DC. If your X wants more contact he needs to find a suitable place where he can have her.

When XH first left, he had DD every Sunday as I felt that 4yo was too young to only see him EOW.

If your DD is only 2, then EOW might be too long. And yes, he does need to feed her when he has her! I had the same thing with XH bringing DD home at 7pm with no tea....

You really need to discuss with him that it is in DD's best interests. Trouble is they take it personally when it really isn't.