Moving from being the OW to being his girlfriend...

[beingmyself]

I've got my flameproof suit on and will start by saying I know being in an affair is a selfish and cruel thing to do. I did it. He did it. We decided we wanted to be together so after having an affair for several months we both left our spouses. He has moved out and so has my h.
We are not living together though and are not intending to for a while. We are also still secret and will remain so for some time.

Is anyone who has been there brave enough to come and talk to me about the highs and lows of finally getting to be together? I knew it would continue to be a rollercoaster and would really appreciate anyone who's willing to talk about it with me to do so here or to PM me!

Thanks

As someone who has recently (two months ago) been given the 'I love you but I'm not in love with you' schtick and having a horrendous time with it all, I would much rather know if there's someone else. As someone said up-thread, what if I'm still thinking he might change his mind 6 months on? Me and our dc are moving down South to start over and while it may all be great for us there I just know I'll move on quicker if I'm not wondering a) if he may change his mind once he realises what he's lost and/or b) if he's moved someone else into our house once we've gone.

OP, my way of thinking is that if you ever loved your exH you need to show him the respect he deserves and come clean for once and for all. Because to do anything else is just plain wrong.

Bogeyface they are trying to make it OK for everyone, telling everyone what is going on will surely be rubbing their faces in it!

WHat is wrong with keeping quiet, laying low for a while? it looks to me like they are trying to do the best for everyone!

But Imnotscared isn't it widely recognised that for anyone to have full closure in these circumstances they need full disclosure from their partner?

How do they ever know they've got full disclosure?

What is 'wrong' is exactly what I pointed out upthread and is what heartbrokenmum has so eloquently explained. The only reason people don't tell is so as not to attract any blame, not just from their spouses, but children, family and friends. It's self-interest. Any other excuses given for lying are in fact, more lies. It's cringeworthy to see people who are probably bringing their children up not to tell lies, encouraging others to do just that and to keep on doing it.

I don't believe that the only reason people don't tell is so as not to attract any blame. It may be the reason for some but for others it's not. I don't see how telling someone the honest truth about how they feel about you would help them. It would be downright cruel.

No, it's cruel to leave people hanging (exactly as I am at present) and wondering what THEY'VE done wrong in the relationship to cause the other person to leave, when in actual fact that other person knows exactly why they're leaving. It's cruel and cowardly to be so underhand and downright deceitful.

As I am now, I would much rather know if there was someone else - that way I'd know for certain that it's 100% over (whether he changes his mind or not) and that I can move forward without the constant nagging little voice.

Bizarre.

It's got nothing to do with 'telling people how you feel'. That much is obvious by the relationship ending in the first place. An affair doesn't suggest that the feelings towards an ex partner are any worse than they would have been if the relationship had broken down without any outside intervention. In fact, many people testify that it was much easier to deal with the break up of a relationship because of an affair than it was to deal with the prospect that a partner would rather be on his own than in the relationship.

It's much crueller to tell lies about what was the catalyst for leaving.

There are threads galore on here over the years from people who have said they would have much preferred the truth, whereas I've yet to see one in 7 years from someone who said 'I'm glad I didn't know'. Even if one popped up now (which would be suspicious ) it would still be unusual.

many people testify that it was much easier to deal with the break up of a relationship because of an affair than it was to deal with the prospect that a partner would rather be on his own than in the relationship.

Yes, this exactly. This exactly sums up how I feel at the moment. I've even said this to my STBEx. If this is the case (as it is in the OPs case) then it's only fair to give the other person that closure and the chance to let the relationship go fully. And also to go through the emotions attached to it.

heartbrokenmum but what if you haven't done anything wrong or whatever it is, there is nothing you can or could've have done about it?

If they are seeing someone else, that might just be the catalyst for them to realise the relationship/marriage is not right, it may not be the person they want to spend the rest of their life with.

Sometimes people go along with a relationship thinking that it's right, then when they really do meet someone and feel different, they realise the other relationship wasn't right. Nobody has done anything wrong, it's just not what one party wants anymore.

So, in the hypothesis you outline, it would be the kindest thing to say that to the partner you are leaving. Adding, perhaps a sincere apology for not raising any doubts or misgivings about the relationship in an open way when they first started having feelings for someone else and started thinking that perhaps the current relationship wasn't right after all.

Dealing only with that example and not other types of affairs where there's been longstanding and openly discussed unhappiness, or affairs where people think that fancying someone else must mean the current relationship is terrible even if they'd been truthfully happy beforehand, being honest with someone you've once loved and whom your children still do love, gives them some choices.

In your example, the healthiest response from the person left behind would be: "Okay, this isn't my fault. My partner didn't raise any unhappiness with me before he chose to have an affair and I can see that an intense, dangerous and exciting new relationship will always show an established, safe, comfortable one in a negative light. There's nothing I could have done to stop that and although I wish that he'd shared his doubts with me before getting too involved in the affair and I feel very angry about the deceit while it lasted, this was outside of my control. I won't beat myself up about doing anything wrong and if I have a relationship again, I'll talk to a new partner about how important it is for him to share any doubts or wobbles about the relationship as soon as he has them."

Contrast that with the alternative of leaving a marriage with children, refusing to attempt (or engage with) counselling, claiming longstanding (but previously unexpressed) unhappiness and insisting no-one else is involved.

If there's one person on the receiving end of that little speech who doesn't constantly torture themselves with an inner dialogue of 'what did I do wrong? will he change his mind? Is he ill? Why has he changed so much? Why won't he try to work on things? How can he not want to wake up with his children every day?' then I've yet to meet them, or encounter them on Mumsnet.

It's cruel and indefensible to lie and it's never done for altruistic motives. Pretending it is, is just another layer of lies.

If you are happy and secure in your love, you should not be hiding this. You need to tell your partners ... it will make it easier for them as well because they will not have to torture themselves (as much) with questions of what they might have done wrong. Are you choosing to keep it a secret for financial settlement reasons? Does an extramarital relationship have any bearing on that?

The person who said upthread that people having an affair create unhappy marriages got it right. My own now ended marriage was rocky but it was also very real and very resilient in many ways, but when he became involved with another woman, he revised everything. It had always been awful, I had always been awful etc..

Contrast that with the alternative of leaving a marriage with children, refusing to attempt (or engage with) counselling, claiming longstanding (but previously unexpressed) unhappiness and insisting no-one else is involved.

Leavenheath, Yes, that is a cruel tactic, commonly and sadly seen on this Relationships board.

The person left behind is then often blamed for being 'impossible to live with' or characterised as 'mad'. Why else would a loving parent up and leave their spouse and children when 'There is no-one else involved. Honest.'

It's very abusive, really. Quite the opposite of honesty, kindness, care and concern.

I suppose the OP is arguing that she could attempt discretion as opposed to honesty. If she can add in kindness, care and concern, it may be possible to do this without animosity; but I do think there's a danger that it'll all come out in the end and potentially be a right old mess for the DCs.

"But Imnotscared isn't it widely recognised that for anyone to have full closure in these circumstances they need full disclosure from their partner?"

Widely recognised by who?

My ExH is now in a relationship with his OW (from years ago) I believe they were having an affair on and off for about 10 years, I have no proof and im simply not interested, I dont see how me knowing full details will help anyone !! I cant change anything !! their relationship is also 'secret' as it is quite complicated. THe children dont need to know anything, or have full closure, they know me and their Dad have split up and that we both love them.

I think it's hard to say if moving on from an affair to a relationship will last, every relationship is different just like every person is different.

You may think he's the love of your life now, but didn't you think that when you married your DH. Look how that turned out.

As for telling him about OM, I think you should. I'm not going to flame you, I'm looking at this from my DP's experience.

He was in a long term relationship which ended when his GF had an affair. He was devastated. He use to say he wished he didn't know about OM. It made him feel he wasn't good enough for her and his self esteem hit rock bottom knowing she chose this man over him.

Now? He's bloody glad he knew about OM. She tried to get back with DP numerous times a few years following the discovery, while still with OM. He couldn't ever forgive her and knowing how she made him feel after she left him, he knew he would always be wondering if she would do it again.
I think because he had the truth about why she left, it helped him move on, otherwise he would've still been trying to flog a dead horse IYKWIM. Their relationship wasn't going too well anyway, he understands why the affair happened but he chose not to cheat, she did.

It's making me question why you won't come clean. Is it really to do with not hurting him? Or is it because you want to leave the door open with your DH, should anything go wrong with OM, you can try again?

Wholeheartedly agree with everything LyingWitchInTheWardrobes has said.

There are some very vindictive and judgemental posts on this thread. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves, your venom and bitterness towards the OP is contemptible. Being in an unhappy marriage is lonely, depressing and utterly miserable. Living in a loveless atmosphere is very toxic for children and if handled correctly, children can flourish when they are away from that environment.

Living in a loveless atmosphere is very toxic for children and if handled correctly, children can flourish when they are away from that environment.

No-one is saying anything different to that. So it's a straw man.

But if the OP and her new partner were content to subject their children to a 'loveless toxic atmosphere' until a new sexual and romantic relationship slotted into place, I don't think that's commendable and unselfish parenting, do you?

Not that the OP has said her marriage was that bad, on this or her other thread. And no-one knows what her new partner's family life was like, apart from him and his own family.

Straw men.

Funny how it wasnt lonely or or depressing until she met a new man.

I am not at all ashamed of anything I have posted, I stand by every last word. I am disgusted at the lies, the self absorption and selfishness the OP has shown, and I reserve the right to voice that disgust.

Ok I've been in this situation, both DP and I left marriages to be together, we didn't live together at first but we do now and are expecting a child.
And pretty much everyone knew why - my ex, his ex, families, friends.
At first perhaps this made it harder but in the long run it made much more sense as the whole relationship wasn't predicated on a lie which we had to live in public.

It was bad enough to lie for the few weeks of our affair (we then went NC, went to counselling with our respective spouses, and chose to get back together a few months later). If I had to do that for the rest of my life it would have destroyed me and certainly destroyed our relationship.

Part of our reasoning was that if you make such a huge decision (and as people have said it is a choice, not something which just happens) and you are sure it is right you need to have the courage to live that decision or what chance does the relationship really have.

From my perspective a few years down the line I would say I am now in an very happy and successful relationship. By being honest about how we caused our marriages to fail I like to think at least we know how those weaknesses could impact on this relationship and try to stop that happening.

I don't buy the vacancy/karma/once a cheater vitriol on here but I do see that facing your own bad behaviour (and lets not kid ourselves an affair is anything but bad behaviour) with some level of honesty and self awareness is vital.

Leavenheath... I note that on another thread, you've referred to this one and said pretty much that anybody who doesn't agree with the complete disclosure POST break-up is either a current OW or an ex-OW. You're generalising and quite wrong. I'm not a current OW or an ex-OW either and I don't appreciate the 'slur' even if it is accompanied by the you seem so fond of.

If my husband met somebody else, he would tell me. If he had an affair, ended our relationship and went off with an OW then the fact that there is an OW wouldn't tell me anything about my own relationship. I just be sad that it had ended and we couldn't make it work. If I met somebody else and wanted to have a relationship with him, I would tell my husband. I wouldn't put the blame on him in any way. My ex, although a bastard, didn't put the blame on me either funnily enough. Blame is the key, not disclosure of other people's involvement. That's my opinion anyway, based on my experiences.

I really do have a problem with generalisations. We can only talk of our own experiences not those of others because we just weren't involved or even there. I don't think it is the slightest bit helpful to a bereft poster to do that because it's just false and pointless really. Same goes for spouting 'karma' and the other platitudes... the poster clinging to this kind of fakery will inevitably be disappointed when it doesn't come to pass.

Anybody can have their opinions on a chatboard forum but it's really disingenous - and wrong - to state things as fact which are nothing more than an opinion.

Great post.

And is one of the answers I was seeking upthread when I wondered how many of the successful second relationships written about, involved being honest with everyone at the point of break-up, about the existence of an affair. I agree it's a very poor foundation for a relationship if it's predicated on a lie that has to be upheld for years. I think it's also insulting to people's intelligence too and in a way, treating them with contempt. Not just the ex spouses either- but children, parents, friends.

I'd imagine that a sort of 'dance' ensues, where perhaps to the couple's face everyone appears to buy this story about a coincidental meeting after both left marriages around the same time, but privately those people think otherwise and deeply resent the attempt to treat them like incurious fools.

Anyone can write anything on a chatboard forum Lying. I never blindly assume that people are telling the truth. As it happens, I wasn't even referring to you on that other thread so I'm not sure why it has touched a nerve. I was referring to another poster and if you've read posts on that other thread, it seems I was right in my suspicions.

It can work.
I have friends, they were both in relationships with other people. She was married, had serious doubts beforehand, but was reassured that it was wedding jitters and everyone felt this way. So she went through with it.
He was her hubbies best mate and was seeing someone.

She really, really tried and made it work. But in all honesty she was miserable, in a loveless marriage. Anyway, her and the bf started spending time together, it was all innocent to start with. There was a spark, and they both tried to fight it. Long story short, they have now been together, properly as a couple for 20 years, apart from a period of about 2 months, after they had left their partners. They now live together, have a child, recently got engaged, and never looked back.

I didn't think you were talking about me, Leavenheath, I'm one of several voices telling you that you're incorrect in your assumptions. You were referring to people AT LARGE who don't agree that full disclosure is necessary. I would have called it on that thread but the OP is very sad and doesn't need to have that point hammered home so I didn't. This thread is different, it's relevant and the OP is making a new life having ended her current relationship. She's not an OW, she's a free woman.

You aren't right in your suspicions, you're just suspicious and taking a tiny sample of people back-patting you as validation. That's your prerogative.

Far, far too much labelling of people, willy-nilly, here there and everywhere, it's ridiculous.