I don't want a huge blow up with H over this, so need opinions please

[Loutwenty]

I don't know where to start really. This is long, sorry, I am just so confused at the moment.

Been with dh for 2 1/2 years, married for just over 1. We got together quite fast as I was having a terrible relationship breakdown with exh, so we moved in together after only 6 months. I had been married 12 years but living separate lives for 10 of them. I have a 10 year old child from that marriage.

I don't work, but I study full time. DH works, but in a job he hates, he did a stupid uni course as a mature student at 25, graduated shortly after we moved in together and couldn't find the mystical job that he hankered after (the route he took isn't a route into them anyway iyswim). So now he has a boring, normal job and is not a rock star like he spent his early 20s thinking he'd be, this is apparently, my fault as now he has responsibilities

I was a sahm during my first marriage, my ex worked abroad during the week and we lived in rural scotland, so I kind of had to be! I married young too, so never had much work experience, aside from a bit of freelance stuff pre 20, so when I left, I was floundering.

Last sept I started college and I have totally found myself. I have studied a subject I love, so much so that I have excelled and done a couple of further courses myself and at my own expense to further my knowledge.

However, I am at a crossroads at the moment where in order to continue I can do a degree. My father and ex always told me I was thick. My father said I was so stupid that there was no point in staying at school post 16, and my ex was very successful and talked down to me always. Since studying, I know that's not true. I have passed with all distinctions, my tutors have been behind me all the way and are pushing me to skip a level and go to a degree.

Ok so two issues!

1. I study hard. Really, really hard, not only with the course I have been doing, but with the additional courses I have taken on. I have a criminal law level 3 qualification to complete over the summer, it is not easy. But yet, because I am in the house more, doing 'nothing' (!) as he says, all house work falls to me. He does not lift a finger. He will 'help' wash up a couple of times a week, but he lets me firmly know he is 'helping' me and expects full on, falling to my knees gratitude.

I make him breakfast in bed every morning, regardless of if I am leaving half an hour earlier than him to get to college, I run his bath, wash his hair. All this for an easy life or he sulks. I am not well today and stressed. So I didn't get out of bed before him as usual. He usually has to start getting dressed at 7.50, by 7.30 he was already huffing as I hadn't got up to get his breakfast and coffee. 7.40 ds comes in with his cereal - a 10 year old puts him to shame lol - so I get up, feed the cats and stupidly make his breakfast as I couldn't face a strop. He could tell I was upset, so asks why (but not in a concerned way, he gets pissed off at me when I am upset) so I tell him, just for once, I am fed up of the morning waitress service. So then he says, well, I wan't hungry anyway and throws a strop that he won't be able to drink his coffee, it will be too hot.

He has his dinner cooked and ready for when he walks through the door as well, regardless of if I am eating or not. My first husband was a shit, but he never, ever expected anyone to cook and clean up after him, so I have never experienced this before. Is this normal? I feel like a housekeeper, I hate it. I know he works, but really, to do nothing in your own home? when I talk to him, he says to tell him what needs doing and he will. But a) He is not a teenager and I am not his mother b) this is his home too, I am not the boss of cleaning and c) he gets in such a mood if I do ask him to do anything. He'll do it, but it's not worth the sulking afterwards.

When I talk to him about it, he gets angry and tells me to stop acting like I have a hard life.

2. With regard to study, I have been offered an amazing chance to do a degree I will love. But I will have to commit to three years, hard wok with pretty full on work placements. We want another child. I have had several MC, so I can't wait any longer, certainly not 3 or 4 years, I am 34. So I am looking into OU degrees as they will be more compatible.

DH isnt happy about any of this. He says he will support me, but this week keeps throwing hissy fits, about how much he hates his job, how it's not fair and I can't complain as at least I am doing something I want to do. It's not my fault that, by his own admission, he did a degree which would basically buy him 3 more years 'free' drinking time' in his mid 20's. It is also not my fault that I have turned out to be more intelligent than people thought I was.

And I know that if I do OU, I will get the 'I got to work!' card thrown at me and I will be doing all the house, studying and looking after a baby on my own.

I am confused and I don't know what to do for the best, or, if I want to stay with him at all at the moment.

The thing that makes me most sad though is that I was never like this before I met him. My ex was a horrible man, but it never got to me. I would laugh in his face.

Now I just feel as if I am completely broken.

Can you identify what it is exactly that makes you feel broken?

This man will do whatever it takes to scupper your success in your degree. He is already petulant and immature and wants you to be his mum and housekeeper, this will only get WORSE as you have something that takes you away from his 'needs'.

You will not miss him in a year's time away from him. I PROMISE you that. I did an OU degree. The first year I was with a total arse of a man who did not support me. I LTB (for other reasons) and took a year out of study. It was my current partner who encouraged me to start it up again and I could count on his support and my grades went up, considerably (I went from typically 50-60%, barely scrape-by passes to distinctions).

The level of care he enjoys is NOT NOT NOT normal just because he has a 9-5 job. Other, normal grown-ups go out to work and use their at-home time and weekends for things like laundry, grocery shopping, cleaning the house etc. What does he think single people do? What does he think others do (including those who have partners, stay-at-home or otherwise?!)

He will fight tooth and nail to keep you because no one else would give him such a sweet deal and he bloody knows it. His strops and sulks and petulance have worked on you so far but I think it's time you refused to engage when he is like this. All you'd be doing in encouraging. It's hard to change old habits, but for your own sanity and your degree, you really must.

If you leave him, you may be financially worse off. BUt you would be better off in EVERY OTHER WAY. Seriously. When it comes to finances you'll get by, but in your current situation you risk jeoparding that degree and you will be ground down.

I knew a woman married to a man-child like this (he used to refuse to let her come to guide camp as an adult helper, because he needed his dinners cooked. After years she negotiated that she would cook all his foods ahead and label it in the fridge with reheating instructions.

During the camping weekend she got a call from him to say he had food poisoning. He'd been so lazy he ate the dinners cold from the fridge instead of reheating them. Of course, his food poisoning was ALL HER FAULT and she was never allowed to go away again.

She later had a baby (her third) with him and she never left him (she had been close before the baby arrived). Sad, because now she is the most broken woman I know.

It's not too late, Lou. You know what you have to do, now you just need to muster up that courage. We're here to hold your hand.

Others have given you much more eloquent advice than i could but all i do want to say is do not have a child with this man it will be something else left for you to. Take of by yourself and is unfair to you and your ds.

And yes your 2nd post is right LTB

oh and re the blaming you about how much he sacrifices by going to a job he hates. Boo bloody Hoo. My dad did this, throwing about what a martyr he is for sticking out a job for us kids. He told us he only went there for us and if he didn't have to pay for our shoes and coats and whatnot he'd have quit years ago. I felt guilty for years.

Then I got older, moved away. All of us kids became financially independent, mum divorced him and he was STILL AT THAT JOB he apparently 'hated' for another 20 years, until he retired this year.

I got to where you wash his hair for him 'for an easy life' and thought LTB. I knew how the rest of the OP would pan out, because pathetic, whiny abusers like him are oh so drearily predictable, like they get some sort of script straight from The NeedleDick Academy of Inadequates.

OP, my grandparents (now deceased) were born in 1905. Washing my grandad's hair for him would not even have crossed my grandmother's mind. I don't think he even got brekkie in bed on Father's Day! The hair thing is not an old-fashioned thing, that's the sort of things slaves used to have to do for the masters who kept them as sex slaves on plantations.

You are a woman who is clearly highly naturally highly intelligent, independent and a coper. But your upbringing, particularly your father's horrid view of view have made you have this other persona of someone who will be treated like shit, treated like a skivvy, thinks they are thick, etc., etc. There is such a contrast in what you write, of how the very low self-esteem way you see yourself versus the real facts of you backpacking with a baby, getting top marks at uni, etc. When a woman thinks poorly of herself and doesn't believe she deserves much from life and is habitualised into thinking men will look down on her, she attracts losers and abusers like your OH.

He is the inadequate type of loser - he's not happy with his life, he can't and won't take responsibility for his life, make changes, etc., be fully adult and independent, so he takes all his shit out on you, he whines, he gets out of being a normal, decent man by guilt-tripping and sulking, prevaricating, making then breaking promises, somehow making out that his problems are your fault, making you feel like because he is dissatisfied, then it is disloyal, selfish and loving of you to succeed or be happy in life. Need I go on? He will not change, he is too immature and damaged. Wat he will change, however, is your DS,because seeing you being treated this way will tech him to become an arsehole like his stepfather. Your love and good treatment won't count for much with such a dire male role model.

PLEASE do not have a baby with this man. It will trap you further. Please start looking at your true, inner needs, instead of trying to make something happen, ie. a baby, just to try to fill the empty holes within yourself. It is so wrong and selfish to being a child into an unhappy and crappy relationship just because of your desire for a child. It is unfair and disgraceful to bring a child into the world for the wrong reasons. And another child will only a bad thing worse. Never better.

What you want is someone to love you. You don't know how to love yourself and your OH doesn't love you properly, but you must NOT create a life to try to give yourself that. It will fail anyway, because the emptiness will still be there if you have 20 babies. You need to leave this pitiful loser and get some decent, long-term therapy to examine why you put yourself down so much and settle for so little in relationships.

BTW, all the things you list as his good points are the very basics you should expect from a partner. They don't really count as good points. If they are his only good points, you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel, you poor thing.

I agree you need to get out for your son's sake. Why would you want this idiot as a role model, influencing his life.
Don't have a child with him or you will be tied to him forever. I understand that yearning for a baby after a miscarriage. i had 3 in a row. You probably could do with some counselling to sort out your feelings as after everything that has happened you seem to be accepting things that are just not acceptable.
Get some financial advice find somewhere else to live and become a student single-parent. Yes it would be hard but no harder than what you are putting up with at the moment.
You owe it to yourself and your DS to leave now.

Your son will honestly be happy if you are happy. This man should not be anyone's role model.

I am not working at the moment. This morning my DP got up, made breakfast for my 2 DC, made me a cup of tea, brought it up to me. Helped me get the DC ready for school, washed up, had a shower (washed HIS OWN hair), made his packed lunch and went to work (after making me another cup of tea).

I feel loved and valued. That is my idea of "normal".

OP I broadly agree with everyone else in saying that he is obviously behaving like a tosser.

But there are one or two things that seem not to be mentioned:

1. I may have missed it but does he know why you are doing your degree and how the family will benefit from it?
2. You have only been together 2 1/2 years - it sounds like you are committing yourself to slavery by washing his hair, but how did it start? And the breakfast/dinner thing too? It hasn't been going on too long to stop it you know.

It sounds to me like he is a product of a bygone era when wifey is at home to do her husbands bidding and therefore the studying you are doing is for your own benefit and so is the equivalent of leisure time.

It doesn't really sound like you want to save your relationship and no one else here wants you to, but I guess in case there is hope then you need to talk and try to re-educate him in 21st century ways, and also explain why you and the family will benefit from the studying you are doing. (Of course you are entitled to do whatever studying / quals you want but it may not be clear to him what is going on and he is afraid of the 'new you')

Good luck.

All my love for you OP - this is such a sad thread as you are clearly so so clever and enthusiastic about life and deserve so much more. I would never advocate leaving a marriage without good reason but I would wonder if perhaps this man should have been your rebound guy, the guy before the right guy iyswim. Continue your education, remember that you are not accountable for anyone elses happiness but your own and show the world what you have to offer x

Your life sounds terrible. I'm sorry it does.

My DH also works very hard in a job he dislikes.
At the moment, I'm a sahm of 3 kids.

I do as much as I can around the house and at wkends DH does too. The idea of running his bath, washing his hair, or even making him breakfast in bed makes me cringe - and it would him too. Your DH sounds appalling. Really.

It is so fab you've found the course you want to do, a career you are working towards. Grab this with both hands and don't look back at this gigantic baby you are living with.

You wash his hair. Leave the bastard for that alone. Get on with your life instead of living it to please his needs. You already have a second baby...him! If he says try doing a job you hate with people you hate for 9 hours a day say you do too and its all day every day. The prick. Leave, carry on with your studies and good luck!

Taking everything you do for him out the equation for a minute. By supporting you in your studies you can potentially go into a high earning job? Meaning he could maybe leave his job and do something he loves?

The fact he's totally missed this point indicates his need to control you.
He should be supporting you as ultimately it will help him get to where he wants to be, but he doesn't as it's about controlling you, just like the breakfast in bed, just like the hair wash.

He just sits in bed like some sort of king waiting for his breakfast. If I pull him up on anything though, he always says 'well, I never asked you to do it'. But if I don't, he sulks.

Think about that.

Sometimes we also oppress ourselves.

I also used to react to H's moods, and allow it to enable him to control me.

You can stop doing that, if you want.

Let him ask for what he wants, and tell him what you are or are not prepared to do.

Certainly I would not give up studying in your place.

You asked what other people do when one person is out at work and one at home.

This is our situation. DH and I have been together for 17 years and I stopped work when expecting my first baby and haven't worked since. DH has always worked. His job is in an office, my job is in and around the home. I can do my job because DH does his. DH can do his job because I do mine.

When DH gets in he immediately gets on with whatever needs to be done involving the kids, animals or house. We have 3 children and I can only do so many things at once but DH realises he is an adult and a father so just does whatever I haven't done either because I have run out of time or because I couldn't be bothered. Doesn't matter to him, he just does it. Never ever complains. Always appreciative if I have made extra when cooking for the kids so he doesn't have to cook. Would never expect it. Always says thank you.

Your husband is a pathetic specimen. He has got it into his head that he is the boss of the house when he isn't even equal to you.

Do not have a baby with this man. If you want a baby there are ways and means.

Do your degree. You have achieved so much already, please don't throw it away on someone who doesn't deserve a bean from you never mind to give up a huge opportunity. Show your child what you can achieve when you work hard.

And hovering needs doing whether you work 15 hour days or 15 minutes. The flooring is, as yet, unable to clean itself when sharing a house with people who make a mess.

Please please please stop bowing down to this pillock and get the fuck out.

Gosh - well it's all been said above, but I didn't want to read and run.

Lou you sound like you are a 'late bloomer' re your studies etc (like I was). You are focused and organised, you are setting goals, doing really well with your studies etc. Keep going as you WILL achieve all you set out to. Please please don't give up on yourself or let this man grind you down.

This man just wants to run/grind/pull/claw you down to his level of misery.

Boo hoo his job is shit! Him and so many other people - but he's blaming you for it? He's using it as an excuse to opt out of participating in the rest of his life. He sounds unredeemable.

Yet you still want to know how to talk with him? If you really want to bother how about starting with "I am going to study FT, I am no longer going to wash your hair, run your bath, make your breakfast, and I need/want/expect/insist on you doing 50% of cooking/shopping/housework etc. Is there anything that is unclear about this? Are you on board? Let's discuss it now."

But I would say the above is pointless as he will simply sulk/whine/ say its unfair/pout and blame you for being horrible to him.

You are really on the up - yet your husband wants to drag you down and keep you there so he feels better about himself.

If you a regular reader of the relationship threads on MN you will KNOW if you have a baby with this man his abusive behaviour will only get worse.

As for this "I make him breakfast in bed every morning, regardless of if I am leaving half an hour earlier than him to get to college, I run his bath, wash his hair. All this for an easy life or he sulks.", to quote Meatloaf "STOP RIGHT THERE". Seriously do yourself a favour and just stop all this five star hotel fantasy behaviour. Recognise that you are choosing to do these things for him, and YOU CAN CHOOSE not to. Let him sulk. I'm really surprised you have any time at all for this man, and any thing left inside to even care if he sulks.

One thing at a time. Focus on your son and your studies. Another baby will come later - you have time, and for now, you have other really important priorities.

Don't waste your precious life/resources on someone who wants to keep you down so he feels better about himself - no wonder this is really getting you feeling broken - you are married to a man who hates and disrespects you - that really is a special level of shitty behaviour.

You sound like you actually have everything you need to move forward to a really happy and fulfilling life, without him. You already have one leg in a brand new happy educated life - please allow the other leg to complete the jump.

hovering is optional and not vital.

hoovering however needs doing.

I mean this in the nicest possible way, seriously LTB! You say you got together quite quickly after your break up from ex-h, it sounds like you walked straight from the frying pan and into the fire! He's an utter fuckwit! FWIW I haven't worked for the past 12 years (SAHM) and up until quite recently DH was the sole breadwinner. I did most of the housework but he most definitely pulled his weight and would never expect anything in relation to the house from me, anything I did do was a bonus and he would thank me for it. Thanks for washing my clothes, thanks for making my tea, thanks for doing the shopping. Your husband sounds like an entitled shit who expects you to be his mummy and slave. You are neither of these things, please just walk away from him while it's still easy to. Don't have a baby with this manchild, he'll ruin your life.

I am very sad to read this.

I don't want to sound harsh at all, but I don't think he likes you. He clearly doesn't respect you.

Wouldn't you rather be on your own? Or even with somebody nice instead, one day?

I wash DH's hair occasionally or run him a bath once in a blue moon, because he likes it and I want to, it's certainly not something to expect.

You have done brilliant with your studies despite no support. He has a housekeeper/personal maid/sex provider all on tap and what do you get in return? A roof over your head and snide comments.

I think you deserve much more, don't you?

Let's see. It's ok for you to rubbish his studies as a stupid uni degree but

Let's see. It's ok for you to rubbish his studies as a stupid uni degree but on the other hand your studies are really important?

He has had to ditch his dreams and hopes for the future and subject himself to the mental torture of the daily grind having the very marrow sucked from his bones but that's ok since you are right behind him helping to support the family by choosing not to work, in fact you've never worked. Instead you choose to study and now want to commit to three more years of study whilst he financially supports you. Your choice of degree of course will lead to guaranteed high paying employment and isn't a stupid degree. I hope you are really sure about that. I know plenty of women who have done degrees after being a SAHM and none of them have walked into high paying jobs. Not to say they haven't improved their lot but most didn't get employment in their chosen fields.
It's funny that so many women on here are saying LTB. Funnily enough I would give the same advice. To him.

But DoesBuggerAll how will he wash his own hair? Make his own breakfast? He is far too important and speshul to run his own bath you know.

One of those misogynist trolls again.

You do your degree, OP.

Don't let anyone put you off.

Yes, DoesBuggerAll, I can certainly see the other side to it as well. I can see it from both sides, to be honest.

The other side is you have a man working long hours, who (rightly) suspects that he was used as a rebound, who is supporting a woman and her child while she continues to study towards something that potentially won't lead to any sort of employment at all (I say that because although many people go back into education, they've usually worked for a few years first, and also the OP mentions wanting another baby badly, which is at odds with wanting to start a new career).