Can I forgive this much deceit?

[alphacourse]

I am trying to figure out whether I can stay,have couples counselling, and try and work things out. Or....whether it is just too much betrayal and deceit. My mind swings between the 2 on a twice daily basis.

Background: DP has cheated on me with 2 women. He met with each one 4/5 times during my recent pregnancies. He has also met up for drinks with a few more. He met then through married affair websites.

I found out about the websites 10 weeks ago, and about the women 3 weeks ago. He followed the usual script of denial, deleting, minimising etc. Then I was contacted by a woman and he had to come clean.

He has started psychotherapy to deal with his issues. He says it was about the buzz of getting girls to be impressed by him.

How do I work out what to do for the best? Obviously he is desperate to work things out. I am prepared to listen at the minute. We have 3 DC. 2 are very small. Help me to make sense of this please!

[alphacourse]

"What makes you think he will stop? He's been doing it for years. You've caught him once and he carried on. You've shown him that he can do it and you'll believe him/forgive him. What in your view makes this different?" That is what I am asking him AGAIN this evening. He said that me finding out the reality is his catalyst for change. That he wishes he could turn back the clock and make different choices.

[cozietoesie]

alpha

What be wishes is that he hadn't been found out.

You're just wanting people to persuade you to stay with him, aren't you?

[alphacourse]

I agree - he wishes he hadn't been found out. I dont want people to persuade me to stay! Not at all! He is very good at messing with my head. It is so easy to pretend that this will all go away while he is here. But it won't. I am just trying to wok out how much of what he says about changing is the truth. IS there a chance this could work. or am I being delusional?

[ImTooHecsyForYourParty]

So you finding out last time wasn't? He was able to lie his way out of it so he thought phew, I'll carry on for now...

I wouldn't bother falling for the "oh, I wish I could go back in time, I'm soooooooo sorry" crap.

That doesn't help you.

If it is not your choice to leave, then what you need to know is what is he going to do NOW. How is he going to show you that you can trust him to not just carry on, since he has already demonstrated that he's been a cheat and a liar for much of your relationship.

[ImTooHecsyForYourParty]

I think you are being delusional.

[cozietoesie]

I think you're being delusional. With 3 DCs and worrying about the future, I can appreciate why - but I still think that you're on a hiding to nothing here. Sorry.

[MadAboutHotChoc]

Sorry but I am with the others.

He comes across as fucked up with ingrained traits, values and beliefs - changing himself will be a very long and hard journey taking years and it will be like looking at a mirror and seeing all his faults magnified. He may think he wants to change because he has just been found out and does not want to lose his cosy set up at home. But as time goes on, he will realise just how too much hard work it is and decide its much easier to go back to shagging other women to fill that hole inside him.

[alphacourse]

madabout your post has hit home. Yes - he has used these sites to fill a void in him. He has used it to validate himself - the need for recognition and admiration.

[AThingInYourLife]

How can you listen to all that self-pitying adolescent guff about how fucked up he is and how he hates himself and not laugh in his lying, self-justifying face?

You think the fact that he is not trying to blame you for the fact that he has been fucking lots of other women for years says anything good about him?!

What he has been caught doing (and no way has an inveterate liar like him started telling the whole truth overnight) is so awful that he knows he needs to straight to the philanderer's last resort: "poor me, I hate myself, I'm so fucked up."

That is still avoiding responsibility.

It's saying that he is overcome by forces within himself that he can't control.

But the reality is that he meets women for sex behind your back because he enjoys it and he doesn't see why he shouldn't.

He's not fucked up.

He's just a common or garden prick.

[bestsonever]

He fears change too, which is why he's bending over backwards to persuade you to stick with him. So this boils down to 2 people who fear change.
While you are hoping that he will change, what of you?
Change is often good in the long run. Facing the fear and dealing with it builds self-esteem and will put you on the right path in life sooner, to aim towards a future you build for your own and your DC's needs.
Or you could waste years hoping for him to be the one to change whilst not addressing your own fear of change and getting nowhere.
You both need to work on healing yourselves separately for improvement to occur. Really bad idea to have him back while you work on issues, you will both get distracted by trying to sort each other out, when it's yourselves you need to focus on. You only have the power to alter yourself, not each other.

[EhricLovesTeamQhuay]

To be honest, the change question is a red herring. Fact is, he did it. He happily lied and cheated and fucked other women knowing full well that he was betraying you and screwing you over and risking your health and happiness. Can he stop being the person who did that to you? Never. You are focussing on whether he can stop this behaviour (doubtful) to avoid focussing on what he actually did to you. And that's not really forgiveable IMO.

[ImTooHecsyForYourParty]

Whatever you decide - do NOT allow him to become the helpless victim here.

[CinnamonAddict]

You got together, both wanted children. You had 2 children in 2 years and in all this time he has betrayed you, lied about it afterwards, minimised.

Yes, he has a huge problem, and he has taken steps to address it.

I think (and heard this many many times) that people don't change (that much). Not what's at the very core, what's hidden under lots of layers we put on over the years.

And I don't mean habits that are learned, but character traits that make us who we are.

I know I would not be able to cope with this level of deceit.

Look after yourself please. You recently had a baby and have a toddler as well. This is a difficult time without the crap your partner is putting your way. In almost every case this like this what you found out and he admitted is only the tip of the iceberg.

He does not deserve you. I have never openly said it but my advice is LTB.

[Catheric]

May I be the first to say what a wankbadger? I can't pretend to know what you're going through because I haven't been in this situation but from all I know, and as neutral as I'm trying to be, I think this weekend might have to be the final straw? Blacking out and fitting because of the stress he has put you under, particularly as you are feeding DC3 who relies on you so much, must surely be a sign that this situation is getting to the point where something needs to happen (eating might be a start ;) ).

I'm not going to say LTB because I want you to know that whatever you decide we will all support you in whatever you decide and be there for you and your gorgeous DC.

You are so strong and I really admire you for that. Unmumsnetty {{{hugs}}}

[Thisisaeuphemism]

Who cares if he wants to change?

Let him do what he wants - without dragging you and the kids down with him.

[Potteresque97]

I don't think I could ever believe him again, what hecsy said. Your DH sounds like a manipulative liar who has realized that he's been caught trying to have his cake and eat it, realized the cost, and is now saying anything to get you to accept him back. You are in a sad situation with the small dc, awful, but how can you give up a chance at a relationship with a person you can really trust? I can't see how it can be him now...do you want to grow old with this guy, knowing how he's treated you? He can still be a good dad if you split up.

[Wellwobbly]

GET MARRIED NOW.

Half that company? It's yours, because you bore his children.

Please believe me on this one.

Make a quick marriage a condition of you not kicking him out.

All that right-on bullshit about it just being a piece of paper???? That P o P is a LEGAL and BINDING CONTRACT.

[FrequentFlyerRandomDent]

I agree with the others.

However I have picked up in you fainting all the time and not eating properly. Please talk to more people in RL life and get practical and emotional support. You need to eat, sleep and be comforted. Otherwise you will be too weak and vulnerable to think straight.

By not telling people who can help you, you are protecting him but also differing or negating help for yourself. Ask for help for food preparation, chores, to have a nap, school pick ups, etc. the shame and embarrassment is his, not yours.

[alphacourse]

I don't think marriage now is a great idea to be honest. He can fold the company and set up a new one. He has several. He earns more than 100k on paper, bet gets a lot of cash too. I don't want to be twice divorced!

[newbiefrugalgal]

Is your home in both names?

[TheBirdsFellDownToDingADong]

Reading latest posts I doubt very much that he has stopped fucking other women.

I also v much doubt you would get him up the aisle. Not that I would advocate it. Especially if one of his fucks is a divorce lawyer. He will be well up to speed on his rights.

[MissStrawberry]

If you don't want to be twice divorced, don't marry this prat.

You don't like change, lots of us don't but you aren't living the life you thought with the man you thought he was so you already have had change and it didn't stop the world turning.

Leaving now while the kids are small is the best thing imo. So many people stay only to leave later when the kids are older and then regret the wasted years.

Do what is best for you and only then your children. You deserve a good life too, not a shit one because you think it is best for the kids to live in the same house as their father.

Good luck.

[FrequentFlyerRandomDent]

Don't get married. He could easily insist in a pre nup to keep his assets anyway, etc.

Please take care of yourself so that you can think clearly.

[AnAirOfHope]

How do you feel about an open marrage?

Does him having sex with others bother you?

How would he feel about you having sex with other men and him looking after the kids? Cos you want the buzz of having sex with strangers!

Maybe you should try it and see what he thinks

Its up to you if you stay or not, its your life and only you know whats best for you.

[PamDooveOrangeJoof]

So much amazing advice on this thread. Please do take care of yourself. Whilst going through something similar, I managed to lose half a stone in less than a week, so please make sure you eat.

Again, I'm so sorry you are going through this awful time.