My DH has had an emotional affair

[bullinthesea]

Hello,

I don't post very much, but I am a frequent lurker!

Sadly, I have discovered that my DH has been having an emotional affair with a woman at his work. I have met her a few times over the years, and have always liked her! (Not any more!).

He was supporting me through a nasty bout of depression, and she was also having problems with family illness etc, and it seems they got too close, whilst chatting. He has always been the type to help others out. I think perhaps his 'knight in shining armour' came out when he came across this 'damsel in distress'!

There were emails/Facebook messages/texts, (the texts were all deleted, but in plain sight on our joint itemised bill!).

I discovered the whole lot on Friday night, and confronted him on Saturday morning.

I told him to sit down and tell me the truth. He says that it was just a load of flirty e-mails, and that he knew it was wrong when he was doing it, that it had all fizzled out and that he regretted it. He was very remorseful, and asked whether I could ever forgive him. I told him it was about being able to trust him again.

I found comments such as

Him "I must have been on your mind, was this email meant for Mr X?"
Her "you're always on my mind"
Him "mmmmmmmmmmmmmm!"

And

Her "thank you for earlier, I feel a lot better now !!"
Him "yeah, me too, can meet up on Wednesday for a follow up if it helps :)"

Her "is there anything else I can do for you"
Him "there may be a couple of things that may rise up"

Him " look at you working on xyz"
Her "can never be too prepared?"
Him "I am always prepared!"

She also kept asking him about his knees, on one occasion, they were organising some work time, and he responded with:
Him "should be good"
Her " what do you mean, SHOULD......... Are your knees hurting?"
Him "no, they have recovered, it's my calf, I pulled it running this morning"

Another message went:
Her "how are your knees and feet now"
Him "well, no carpet burns! How are you, we,ve been thinking about you?"

Then there was the time about six months ago, when he was having some funny turns. He had to spend the day at hospital having tests. He had already phoned into work, to tell them that he wouldn't be in that day, and yet I discovered that he'd emailed her from the hospital, to tell her about the tests and said that it was scary, there were loads of exclamation marks at the end (and on lots of the other emails too). He then emailed her again later about the results, with the same message that he had texted to me a few minutes prior, but he'd added extra exclamation marks on hers.

A lot of the content of these emails (and some others that I haven't written about) suggests that things may have got physical.

He strongly denies that it got physical, and says that he doesn't even find her physically attractive. He has said that it was exciting, and that she had made him feel good, as it had felt like she wanted him. He also told me that she had tried to kiss him at an Xmas do a few years ago, but he didn't kiss back, and had thought it was odd.

I asked if he thought she might have a bit of a thing for him, and he paused and said, "yeah, probably".

I have told him that I am going to get tested for STIs, just in case, as I'm not sure I can believe what he's telling me, and want to be sure that I haven't caught anything.

We both cried a lot, and he buried his head in my lap and told me he was so sorry over and over.

I do love him very much, and feel that we became distant, (although things had been much better recently), that we need to focus on our marriage much more (he agreed) and do our best to recover the strong love that we always used to have.

Only thing is, if it did get physical, then I would have to end the relationship.

I am so confused, I can barely concentrate on anything, and I haven't a clue where I'd start if I suddenly found myself single - I'm a sahm, my son is 7, and I am not bringing in any income at the moment, so he supports us all financially.

I just don't know what to do next.....

Hi

Just want to say that you defo should go find out about the lone parent thing & how you would be set. Up financially etc if you do split. This will 1. Make you feel in control & aware of how things would be and 2. Show him that it's really serious & he needs to be feeling it rather than making the right noises.

Research all the possibilities & look after yourself. if you feel you're doing the right thing for now then that's fine. If he means what he says then he'll take it if you ask him to leave for a while at any stage & should be at your beck & call for the next year or 2 til you figure things out. He must know that because he is staying in the family home right now, it may not always be the case

Good luck

No offence but all the stops will be getting pulled out at this stage, he'll do anything right now. He feels uncomfortable at the word unfaithful - really? He didn't seem to mind it when he was.

He's calling her the other woman because he knows it sounds better to you.

I'm not saying you should split or stay together, it's entirely up to you, nobody else but please give yourself time on your own, can't he move out for a short period of time? It must be very hard having to pretend everything is normal when it isn't. Sorry but it looks to me like he's got off pretty lightly after what he has done.

Is he really worth all the misery he is causing you? You won't know this until you have time apart from him so give yourself that much, he'll wait for you if he means what he says, IF being the operative word.

bull, we are here for you and good for you for returning and for being strong and honest.

I can't over-stress how important the next thing I'd like to say has been in my life.

Learn to distinguish between words and actions.

Charmers, narcissists, cheaters, they are all very good at convincing people of things. It is how they are charming. I have no problem believing you believe him. I have no problem believing he believes him too. But the only thing worth anything is the size and consistency of his actions. Actually, the thing that makes me most sad and anxious for you is these examples like using the term 'that woman'. That is the classic behaviour of someone trying to manipulate you into believing him by adopting the sort of vernacular he imagines you want to hear. He has known this woman, and probably loved this woman, for YEARS. It is actually disrespectful and childish to suddenly ban her name from his lips as if it suddenly repulses him, for the simple reason he has been found out. FOUND OUT remember. NOT confessed to. He is in damage control mode.

What of the actual PRACTICAL things I mentioned in my former post has he done? The work thing is good and important. But I still don't see how you know and trust that he is not in contact with her. I still don't know why he hasn't shown you the emails or written an explanation and an honest ending for you to see that you can send to her together. I know these things will seem painful to you, but they are way way more painful for him and that is why he doesn't want to do them. It is VERY hard for someone just to give up someone they have spent years confiding in and sharing with. Almost impossible in fact. I would engage in all your dealings on the assumption they are still on contact, possibly even affectionately so, sharing the ups and downs of what you and he are going through, comforting each other through the trauma of the guilt, expressing whispers of how much they miss each other.

I am sorry that is so harsh sounding but if he is struggling with word ;unfaithful' he's a little bit deluded.

And he might well have wanted you to renew your vows in some period of estrangement from the OW, or to convince himself that you and he staying together were right. People having an affair don't spend all their time plotting against their partner, they spend much of it in a state of distress and despair, oscillating between their options and hoping something will make itself clear. What they don't do, often, is realise fast enough that they need to tell the truth or never be trusted again.

You have the right to ask for anything you want now, OP. Including access to communications between them. It is you who have been wronged.

Reading your last post - it seems to be all about HIM, what HE wants, what HE said etc. Do not make the mistake of being his counsellor and therapist. He needs to do the work himself.

Now is the time to focus on YOU, what YOU want and YOUR future.

The shared hobbies, dates etc can wait until you have decided that its what you want to do. The danger is that he is trying to pull you in at this stage - he is not giving you enough space to think things through and process your feelings.

Then I have other moments where he's telling me that he wants a future with me, that he's disgusted with himself for what he's done, that he's going to have to live with himself, knowing how much he's hurt me and it kills him, and it does seem that there's genuine remorse there, and that he really wants to make a go of it. He says he can't bear the thought of losing me.

You know there isn't a single think in that sentence that is not about him, how he is feeling, his remorse, him wanting to make a go of it, how he knows he has hurt you etc. If you are mentioned in there it is as a complete by product of him.

I agree with tessa6 'that woman' is a foul way to talk about a woman he has had some form of relationship with for how many years now. He was willing to cheat and risk your relationship for someone (I initially type something as that is what he is turning her in to a thing not a person) he calls 'that woman'. It is so offensive.

Not only is it offensive it makes you collude it is you and him against 'that woman'. No matter what part she played in all this he cheated on you. He did all this to you. Not 'that woman'. Never lose sight of this!

He's been saying he wants us to start doing more stuff together this is also typical. This one makes AnyFucker and others of us foam (elegantly I am sure) at the mouth.

He has be a vile cheat. Taken his interest and emotions elsewhere from the relationship and wants rewarding by cosy times together to make it all better.

Good luck.

I also wonder if people who have affairs are emotionally a bit dead, like someone who has to have 5 expressos before they feel awake. Being in a long term relationship means that the thrill is probably gone and they view contentment as a bit of a disappointment. Therefore having an affair resurrects that thrill and gives them a buzz. Furthermore, when the affair is discovered they get to feel fear and thrill about their marriages, which is even MORE potent, hence the 'honeymoon period' after discovery. Him coming home early etc is him feeling alive and in love again. Once more he can see you clearly.

This is good in some ways, but it is unlikely to last I'm afraid. You won't change, but he will. Without some heavy duty therapy and self examination he's likely to slip back into the deadness again. She will be there, waiting, able to provide those adrenaline hits he thinks he needs in order to feel things. YOU can't make him better, please don't think you can. She certainly can't either. The seeds of this undoubtedly predate you.

Until he can stop referring to the situation in the third person ('that woman', 'disgusted with himself') there's not much hope. He did it. Only him. He is a bad man who betrayed you. It is NOT more complicated than this.

As for renewing vows, I knew a couple who had four children, an idyllic lifestyle, and a romantic renewing of vows in front of all of their friends. He was having an affair with a young waitress all the time. My friend was absolutely devastated as she'd spent years making excuses for him. She is now married again, to a lovely man that she doesn't need to make excuses for. She has blossomed.

"One thing is, if it did get physical then I would end it"

This is what you originally said when you thought it was an emotional affair of some months. Now you have found out it was a sexual and emotional affair of some years.

Your dh has behaved appallingly over several years - and even now he has been found out, he still behaves like the worst kind of twat. I'm sorry that you are too close to see it.

He wants to renew his vows? Surely you're not taken in by this?

I have to say, discussing eternity rings and renewing vows meant nothing as while he was doing that he was sleeping with her. It may have been to throw you off any suspicions he might have thought you had.

Please check what you will be entitled to as a lone parent, just to give you some peace of mind if you decide to end it. He knows he can't resign - that is a misdirection on his part. I would imagine it's a difficult time of year for a teacher to seek a new post too. So he could be there another year...please put yourself here. Your feelings, your thoughts, how you want your life to be in five years time (or five months for that matter).

put yourself first !

Missed the renewing the vows bit.

Why would you need to renew them you didn't break them.

Why would you bother getting him to renew them. They were meaningless to him last time.

Maybe in 1/2/5 years when he has proven a changed person. Now? Pointless. Just a grand gesture.

Oh, this is awful deja vu.

Please please please read the post by Tessa very carefully! I cannot tell you the smoke and mirrors, it has taken me years to work it out and accept that he has just carried on as selfish as ever (and OW never really went away)

What Tessa warns about lingering attachment to OW is very TRUE. It is staggering (in a way that shakes you) how much they 'dissemble'.

Please read Tessa carefully and take what she says seriously.

Guilty conscience OP or threat of disturbing revelations prompted the talk of vows and eternity ring. I'm sorry but with a liar you have to look back and examine every out of kilter event or excuse.

The honeymoon thing Lilly refers to is called hysterical bonding - and usually what happens afterwards is that you feel worse because it wasn't based on reality.

thanks wellwobbly. The facts and actions here are the only thing worth following, OP. All other declarations, promises, or explanations are background noise. Here are our facts.

He has been carrying on an affair that is both emotional and physical for years.

He did not tell you about it, to start again or explain what you've both been going through or to finally be honest. If you hadn't discovered, it would still be going on, this cancer in your life.

When you confronted him, he lied. He continued to lie. He still seems to be continuing to lie. We must conclude that when he speaks, it is as likely to be a lie as the truth. So him answering your questions is fine but not a good or bad thing necessarily, as it is just as likely a building of a narrative that serves him as not.

He is making practical efforts like coming home earlier and looking for another job. This is a good fact. Pursue it. Does this continue or is it a temporary response to your trauma? Does he stop looking for work after a few weeks or start coming back later?

Everything else is stuff he is 'talking about'. It is fine but meaningless. WHERE ARE HIS MOBILE PHONE RECORDS? Where is the password to his email, computer and mobile? Where are the other people in his life that you can talk to and ask what they know? Where is the final correspondence between them that you okay?

see what you said about not being able to stay with him if it had been sexual? Now you know it has been sexual? You are still considering it. The bottom line shifts. This is how we rationalise and desperately cling and erode ourselves until we are nothing. YOu have an opportunity now to show him what is and is not acceptable. FIND A BOTTOM LINE. Today. Write it down. See the list I made a few pages back of what he has to do? This isn't guesswork or nagging. It is WHAT HE HAS TO DO. If he does not do them all, IT WILL NOT WORK. Think of him not fulfilling any of this things, as him giving you the gift of revealing who he is, and letting you go. If he contacts her again, it's over. If he does not show you the emails, it's over. You get to decide your bottom line. But decide it. Now. And do not ever go back on it.

I am sorry for the toughness of some of this, I know what you need and deserve is compassion and hugs. I want to give them to you. You have done nothing wrong and your life will not never be the same again. But it can be better. There's no need to be afraid. You're the hero of this story. You can and must make demands. Please please accept that there is every chance they are still making plans together. Very very few people who have done what he has done can drop that habit immediately. I'd say none. Detach from him, you are seeking comfort from the very person you has caused the pain. That is an impossible situation. You will be okay. All love.

Hi Bull.
Everyone else here is right.

My H and I did the bonding thing. Monthsater he was as selfish as ever and after a weeks split six months further on again we were back in counselling, where he finally is doing the work rather than promising it.

You have become the new buzz. He isn't offering much. It is all about him. And he has a home to save for himself.

Unless he does what he is asked and takes some proper pain for this eg better disclosure , it won't work.

Dear Bull, as others have said, put yourself first. That could mean kicking him out or staying together. I think that you can salvage your mutual love but it depends on whether he is genuine.

I felt a bit sick whilst reading this as it brought back some bad memories for me, and I have an idea of how you are feeling. My DH had an emotional affair four years ago and it nearly destroyed me, there still seems to be days and weeks that are "missing" from that bad time. It first started with him mentioning her name quite a bit in conversation, then when I pointed this out it sort of went undercover in the form of texts. They too worked at the same place and she was going through a rough time, so I suppose it became the knight in shining armour act, that someone here pointed out. I started reading the texts and though there was nothing sexual, it was still nicey, nicey in the way the texts were worded and it worried me greatly.

My DH became very upbeat and happy during this time, whilst I kept all the info in my head and slowly went on a decline. I couldn't eat, sleep or function properly and I lost loads of weight too. It finally came to a head when I couldn't go to work one morning, just couldn't face people, and I called my doctor who was fantastic. She advised me to confront DH with the text messages etc, which I did. He always claimed that they were just good friends, nothing more, but I will never really know that for certain.

To cut a long story short we managed to get through this, but only after huge rows, tears, debates, etc and after I had met her a couple of times at work do's, then my DH moved to another office.
In my heart I will never forget this horrible time, but in order to save my marrige, we had to move on.
I certainly understand that you love your DH, but you are going through a very difficult time and there are good people here who can advise and help you, so please don't feel that you are all alone.

No. You are not alone hand hold for sweetpud

sweetpud just like bullinthesea, so often on a thread where a H has behaved so poorly towards his wife she will say of him, "He liked being a knight in shining armour...." or "His self image is very important, he is such a good guy normally, he likes to be the hero...".

How sad that the recipientof such consideration sometimes transforms from damsel in distress to OW. His wife is often the last to see his generous, thoughtful side.

snap sweetpud - my XH suddenly started talking about OW all the time. He hid all texts, emails, facebook chat from me. He was also the "Knight in shining armour" because he "understood her in a way that her husband didn't" - well done on working through it.

that is what reels these men in, the thought that somebody needs them, somebody wants them, somebody talks sweetly to them.... nothing sidetracked by the stress and strain of everyday life, just pure sweet fantasy.

bull I hope you are ok. I presume he refers to her as that woman because he doesn't want to keep bringing her name up in case it upsets you. Not sure how you can get around that one.

I am wishing you a happy ending in whatever direction you choose

He's also telling me that he just saw her as a 'piece of meat'

This is not the man I know. Well none of it is.

We saw relate yesterday, he said to the counsellor that the physical stuff lasted about 6 months. He then expects me to believe that he shagged her no more than a handful of times.

It's all a load of BS isn't it?

The "piece of meat" thing is horrible, so dehumanising He must really lack empathy.

Sorry he is still lying and bullshitting you. That's the problem with relate - BOTH parties need to be committed for it to work. What did the counsellor say? Did you say it was a load of BS?

Bull I'm so sorry that you're going through this. May I give my perspective as the child in a similar situation?

My dad had an affair. Twice. Same woman. I was still in primary school at the time.

My parents are still together but I keep thinking "Will he do it again? Will my partner do it to me?"

Whenever my dad is away my first thought is "He's doing it again."

Maybe tell your husband that. It will affect the way his children see him, especially if he keeps up with the lies and the horrible way in which he is speaking.