Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 23

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples' therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change:
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

[FairyFi]

to the 'waiting for the email', 'expecting the fallout', 'scared of rocking the boat', 'can't face him getting his rocks off at my pain/fear'... to all living in fear of his reactions instead of thinking of what wewant and our right to have what we need.

to separating and detaching from them, to putting them on the other side of a wall, and their actions being their own, and for us not spending time worrying about what if, what if, what if... which we can't know, but spend precious energies thinking through all the possible eventualities.

Oh to not living in fear

Guinness book of records entry for longest mantra...

[FairyFi]

this finding a way through - just like water I think Sweetpea

I'm now getting water-resistent sealant to fill in the cracks! He will NOT!

[bountyicecream]

Oh dear. Has anyone been to counselling and left feeling a whole lot more confused.

I thought my mind was made up to go (see earlier thread resolution).

The counsellor was lovely, really listened. Agreed that my H is abusive and says/does some majorly awful things to me.

She basically said I have 3 options

1. Stay the same - not recommended for me or DD
   
2. Leave - but that this will bring a whole lot of different issues and isn't an easy option
   
3. Work on my self esteem and set boundaries.
   

She almost made me feel like it was my fault. That I haven't stood up for myself and said that x, y and z will not be tolerated by me anymore. And that if I did make some clear boundaries then just maybe he would change.

She also said that when he makes a ridicuolous statement like our DD bedtime argument at the end of last thread that I could turn it round on him and say calmly 'but why would you think that?' See if it makes him look in wards at his own faults a bit more.

She has recommended 2 books, one of which she's lent me (both are Christian based)
-Bold Love (tag line: know the difference between loving and evil person, a fool and a normal sinner) by Dan Allender

and

-Boundaries in Marriage by Henry Cloud

Has anyone read or heard of these.

She also said that there is nothing wrong in going. That FW has broken his marriage vows so in away they are nul and void. Which is how I feel too. And also that it will take a massive amount of energy and strength to try to sort things out and that the many years of abuse may have drained that out of me.

Oh I just don't know. Want to shut myself in a dark room and sob.


Right off back to catch up on the rest of you

[sweetpeasunday]

YY, fi, I think if one takes the view that it will not let up, then one needs the necessary precautions. It is not like dealing with a normal person. I realised I am having these conversations in my head with a rational him, the one I want to be able to talk to, and it is a complete figment of my imagination, because rational FWs do not exist, and he blindsides me everytime with the fact that really, truly, however he expresses it, it is all about him and his need for control.

Water-repellant sealant is the way to go, I am realising slowly I need to waterproof myself for a good long time.

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Oh, bounty. :( I've had similar from the counsellor. As though it is possible for us to manage their (FW's) behaviour by doing the right thing?

Work on your self-esteem? Why is it that it needs working on in the first place?! Remove yourself from his influence and you'll feel better about yourself pretty quickly. In fact, I recommend doing 2 and 3 from her list as by far the best option!

Not sure why she's being so directive anyway. Isn't counselling supposed to be a space to think things through for yourself rather than have someone wiser than you tell you what to do after listening for half an hour?

Glad she said there's nothing wrong in going, though. He broke the marriage vows - I've been holding onto this at times to help me through the guilt and confusion.

[sweetpeasunday]

bounty, there is a 4.

1. Leave, and work on your self esteem and boundaries outwith your marriage (where your focus is you and dd, so more head space to succeed at this).
   

I would absolutely not have come to some of the realisations I have about myself in my marriage, because just surviving day to day took all my strength. Plus, leaving has been a crash course in setting boundaries (bad joke)

[bountyicecream]

The manipulation of DC that some of you are experiencing is just awful. However upset the FWs are, they must know on a basic level that involving children in adult problems is fundamentally wrong. I agree with cutting contact if it continues.

[bountyicecream]

Well she said that she couldn't tell me what to do but was just trying to make me think about all the different options open to me.

But the feeling I can't shake off is that I've allowed it to happen. That I should have been stronger. I should have stopped it years ago before it got to this. But then I only truly certainly realised he was EA about 12 months or so ago so how could I have stopped him. She did say that 'good' people like me, with a heart for loving others and seeing the best in them are vulnerable to being abused like this. But that I shouldn't lose these qualities but work on the self esteem to stand up for myself.

I bought some lovely new cushions for my new house before I went. It's the first time I've bought something like this as none of our rooms in our house are at the fnishing stage. I love the cushions and am pretty certain FW would hate them. Now I feel like I've jumped the gun.

charlotte if you don;t ming me asking. Was your counsellor a Christian counsellor? I wonder whether subconsciously they have a little more invested in encouraging you to stick at the marriage (although she knows neither me or FW)

[sweetpeasunday]

Oh and yes, leaving has brought other issues, but they are issues I can close my house door on.

'But why would you think that?' - gives primacy to his views, FWs can justify and believe anything, and it puts you in the position of deferring to him, then having to say why he may be misguided.

My experience was that whatever I tried, FW would ignore and grind down, my betting is that you started off setting boundaries, trying to compromise, and then there was temper, or sulking, or insults to make you feel insecure, threats of OW, all these things over many years to make you think, if I assert myself too much, he won't love me anymore, and gradually, it becomes about what he wants.

[sweetpeasunday]

My final point, I would not see it as having allowed it to happen, more of an unhealthy, indeed abusive, dynamic which was damaging for you, which you did not recognise. Now you do.

[FairyFi]

counsellor needs to be aware that surviving blocks out possibilities of all else. Sadly counsellor does not know this at the moment, so should stop directing this non-directive therapy! [grrr]

You and we know you are not in any way at fault and I'm that this has brought upset for you bounty

There is no realisation of the issue. If the police and all the other services cannot stop them, why would a counsellor expect the most vulnerable ppl in their lives (the survivors) to!!!??? Oh dear [weary]

I would feel the same. Its good to know of someone's religion if the religion is shared and need to hear a religious perspective expressed, but otherwise... ......well, seems inappropriate as conflicts with the counselleees beliefs and can't be helpful?

[FairyFi]

try to spend your valuable energies on yourself and not worrying about her any more. You are clear at how it has unsettled you.. when you have the right one you will really feel the difference. Someone who knows better than you do about this is what's neeeded, also FP.. can't remember whether you do?

[AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore]

LTC. My new phrase. lol Lose the Counsellor.

She sounds like she was giving you definite pathways as to what you should be doing. My understanding is that counsellors should not be doing that. She also sounds like she is pushing you towards staying. She shouldn't be doing that either.

Verrrrrrrry unprofessional. IMO often the counsellors through religious means have their own beliefs that leak into their work too much.

[bountyicecream]

It's tricky fi I am a christian so wanted a christian view. And I believe that marriage is meant to mirror the love of God for his people which our marriage totally does not. I'm also sure that there is a plan for me and that God's heart is breaking for me at the moment.

[Verygentlydoesit]

Oh bounty, that doesn't sound right, not at all. My experience of therapy is very different, I've found it immensely helpful- but my therapist is very professional and never ever suggests what I action I should take.

I don't know what to say TBH- I'm a bit gobsmacked. It feels disrespectful to criticise your counsellor but she doesn't appear very professional.

There is a very good reason why counselling should be non-directive. I'm worried that she could actually be doing you a lot more harm than good.

I do think you should seriously consider trying a different one. If you explain your Christian Beliefs a professional therapist should be able to support you in a way that works for you.

How would you feel about talking to a church leader about your situation?

[sweetpeasunday]

Agree with very that a good non-religious counsellor would help you untangle the situation, and what you want to do. I am not religious really, though I gather comfort from faith, so I am uncomfortable commenting further. But surely, a loving God's heart would be breaking for you just for the same reason as any other compassionate person's would, namely your deep unhappiness.

[bountyicecream]

yes agree god's heart is breaking for me.

She didn't say which choice I shouidl take. Just that those are the options.

Oh i don't know.

[FairyFi]

oh well, its cool if you had wanted to have a christian convo about it, as obviously thats important to you.

I do not hold that faith, but I do believe that any god is a god of goodness and compassion for any suffering, and that you should not be! So, no your vows certainly do not hold, and you have no guilt to carry or to be beholden to your marriage.

I stil hold to the view that the only ppl to turn to with this are those that can completely validate your feelings, as any invalidation is potentially dangerous to your situation and certainly emotional well-being, as you are feeling. take care. Therapy is only ever for you, and must therefore be the right one for you, then you will only reap rewards from that, although it can be tough going discussing painful things like this of course. xxx

[sweetpeasunday]

Sleep on it, visit your house, take your time. Maybe think about the oft repeated advice on here, that if he is going to change, he does not need to do it under the same roof.

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

My first counsellor wasn't Christian (at least she didn't advertise as one!); she talked about standing up to him more, but didn't realise the extent of what was going on to begin with (I am an accomplished minimiser); then when she did, she thought boundaries still useful to work on while I was making my decision about leaving or not.

The Relate counsellor I saw with FW recently is Christian (she who challenged me repeatedly about leaving to see if I was really convinced or not). She seemed to say to FW at one point that she thought I was leaving too easily. I may have interpreted what she said wrongly. She was outwardly respectful of my decision apart from all this!

I think, sadly, you may be right, bounty. I also think that there is still not enough of an understand of EA, even in counselling. My first counsellor was very supportive but didn't really seem to know what to expect from me. For example, I gave EA as the reason I was coming, so if she'd known her stuff, she'd've expected me to minimise the problems I was experiencing, wouldn't she?

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

bounty, have you read this book? It gives the Biblical history of divorce, puts Jesus' words on the subject into context and deals with other troublesome passages in the NT. It was recommended to me by a MNer (or maybe two!) and I found it enlightening and reassuring.

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Tbh, whenever anyone's given the impression that I should be trying more in the marriage rather than leaving it and I've wondered if they're right, I've felt completely drained of energy (possibly hopeless, despairing, though I wouldn't usually describe it so melodramatically) - so I KNOW it's not the right thing to do.

[AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore]

I think the biggest problem to me was that "trying harder" almost invariably meant giving in instead of standing up for myself, making sure he was not upset over anything, basically running myself ragged trying to keep the peace. That's not trying harder, that's putting out fires IMO.

Because if his behaviour is the problem, HE has to fix it. My trying harder is irrelevant. Only HE can make those changes. I cannot be the policeman, the peacemaker, the one that runs around making sure nothing upsets him. How is that living? How is that even a marriage?

[Funnyfishface]

Bounty - my therapist said the same to me.

1 leave
2 stay the same
3 you can't change him but you can change yourself.

She said that I should work on creating a life for me. Work, interests and hobbies that did not include him. This in turn would help my self esteem. Which was at rock bottom.

I still haven't done that.

My h is insanely jealous. He always has been. So I have stopped going out without him. The odd time that I do I get bombarded with questions. So I am quite happy staying home. But then the odd occasion when I do go out it blows up.

Bounty- what do you want to do?

Alice - I agree with your last post. It's not a marriage.

Whilst visiting hospital this week there was a lady quite unwell. She looked dreadful. Her husband visited every day and stayed the whole time of visiting. When he walked in he had a big smile and greeted her with ' hello sleeping beauty or hi ya beautiful' . Witnessing this small intimate gesture brought tears to my eyes. This is true love and this is what I crave.