not sure what she wants

[damnit1]

Ok, I have read quite a few threads from guys moaning about their wives, but I am going to and another anyway.

First of all.... I love my wife more than anything and would/do anything for her. The problem is I quite often feel taken for granted, like I will always just be there. I also feel that she is just with me because I offer some stability. She says she loves me, but I feel we are drifting apart.
She never talks to me and the only time I find stuff out about her is when she talks to her friends.
I will often ask her what has happened in her week, but she will often just reply "not much, "just the usual". I try to spark up a conversation or have some fun but she rarely wants to engage. However, this is quite different if someone else does this.
I will often ask her if everything is ok, or , is she happy and she will just reply with a bored yes.
Our sex life also sucks, I wont go over the usual "it used to be much better" (although it was), but she could easily go months without sex and she only seems to initiate if I have mentioned something the night before. I always get " im tired" or " not in the mood" and if I try to initiate by kissing her neck or touching her she will either just lie there or huff and move my hands. I have tried to build up slowly, quickly and every other method, but she is rarely interested (unless I mention it).
I have tried to talk to her about our sex life, but she hates talking about it. I have asked if there is anything I can do, but she just answers either "I don't think there is a problem" or something similar.
I have told her I need to have a physical relationship and I am willing to go to speak to someone as I feel it is becoming a problem, but she wont talk about it and will just roll away.

I honestly don't know what to do. I love her loads, but don't want to end up even more unhappy than now and I don't want her to be unhappy .
We have 2 young children and I don't want to separate for them (and the fact I love her), but I don't want to waste the next 10 years with someone who doesn't love me.

As I have already said, I have tried to talk to her about our problems, but she wont .

I don't know what to do. Am I just being over sensitive, childish or something else.

Agreed Darkesteyes! "Bad boy" = macho, irresponsible twunt who loves himself (and nobody else, much) in my experience.

Anyway OP - you've had a load of different advice here! But here's another thought that might or might not apply:

How much do you do, or talk about, together that doesn't revolve around the kids, home or work? Do you ever get to go out together without children, or spend time playing silly games/learning things together/having proper deep conversations any more? When did you last do something exciting or funny together?

I wonder whether, in the hustle of work and children, you have both just got used to relating to each other more like people who have to work together (on relatively boring jobs), rather than people who choose to be together for pleasure. It comes across a bit as though she sees your "purpose" as helping out with the jobs, and you see hers as similar but with a bit of bedroom action thrown in. Bet that's not how things were when you first got together... and it's definitely not appealing. I see it as a contrast to how she sees her friends - they are for "fun" and light relief, you are for the dull stuff.

So, how about challenging yourself to make her laugh a bit more, to think of some activities you can do together that you don't normally (not just a meal spent talking about work, but something a bit more unusual and stimulating - theatre, exhibitions, playing sports together or local events?) and to try and squeeze in a bit more joint fun and connection generally? I know it's hard to fit these things in when you've got small kids, but it's worth a go at least - even if it fails you can have some fun trying.

He doesn't sound like he needs to change himself, IMO. He needs to tell her how bad he feels

The way I see its that your DW "talks" to her friends because they actually listen to what she is saying. I think she has given up on talking to you because you don't really listen so she thinks "Why bother?"
You say you keep yourself fit you try to have talks about the lack of sex. Do you ever talk about anything else with her? does every conversation lead to the sex issue?
Try looking at it from her point of view.

OP

Is there any way you think she may be having an affair?

I have told her I need to have a physical relationship and I am willing to go to speak to someone as I feel it is becoming a problem, but she wont talk about it and will just roll away.

roll away as in your are in bed at the time? Are the only times you have discussed this when you are in bed together? If so, maybe you should try talking about it at some time other than when you are trying to initiate sex. Her shutting down may be because she feels bad she has just rejected you and doesnt want you to feel worse because what she has to say will be difficult for you to hear. A different enviornment and atmosphere might make all the difference to the communication between you.

That's true Mummy

Thank you all so much. Listening to the different advice has really made me think about our relationship and what I am putting into it and what I can do to make a final push for both our happiness.

2712 - Sorry, but you just sound like you hate men. I would be happy to hear your story on here if you need to get something off your chest.

Good luck, Damn.

"...The way I see its that your DW "talks" to her friends because they actually listen to what she is saying. I think she has given up on talking to you because you don't really listen so she thinks "Why bother?"
You say you keep yourself fit you try to have talks about the lack of sex. Do you ever talk about anything else with her? does every conversation lead to the sex issue?
Try looking at it from her point of view..."

How could you possibly know this? This is irresponsible nonsense. You're basically assuming that whatever the problem is, it must be because of the OP. You've even managed to throw in the lazy 'men don't listen' stereotype... even though you have absolutely no way of knowing whether this is actually the case. Please go practice your misandry in your own life, and stop using it to poison other people's.

I have been in your wife's position, OP. My XH would help out with housework etc, but I always had to ask (which made me feel like a miserable nagging wife) and I never really felt appreciated for what I did, or like he even really noticed me.

I hated sex with him because I felt it was just sex he wanted, not me specifically. I could have been anybody... it was just another of his needs I was responsible for taking care of!

In a 12-year marriage, the only time I remember us actually having good sex was when DD2 was a toddler and my parents paid for us to spend a weekend in a big hotel, with theatre tickets and a posh meal out, while they babysat both kids. Just spending time together, doing something we both enjoyed, with no other responsibilities actually created a spark!

I also remember begging him to take the kids to his parents' for the weekend, just so I could have some me-time. He did it ONCE. In 12 years! If he could have done that once a month or even every couple of months, our marriage would probably have survived much longer, but as it was, I ended up so burnt out I couldn't handle any more. I actually told him once that I was filing for divorce so I could have two weekends a month for myself, when he would HAVE to take the kids overnight and give me a break!

I'm now remarried to a lovely man. The attraction wasn't at all physical, at first, but I loved his company. We could spend hours talking about anything and everything and we're on the same wavelength. Last night he arrived home pretty late from work, the whole place was a huge mess and the first thing he did was to ask "what's the most important thing that needs to be done?" then picked up and hoovered the whole appartment! Most days he just steps in and does whatever needs doing, without any input from me at all.

And he regularly arranges babysitters and nights out, or romantic weekends away when my kids are at their dad's. He happily took care of the house and kids for a week when I went to stay with my best friend who was pregnant and on bed rest!

We have a great sex life, because I feel so loved and respected that by the time we fall into bed at night, I just want to snuggle and kiss him and show him how much I love and appreciate him, which inevitably leads to us both expressing those feelings physically. It's not just sex. It really is making love.

So, I would say the best thing you can do is:

1. Take some of the strain by pitching in spontaneously around the house
2. Give her plenty of "me-time" by taking the kids away overnight, booking her into a spa break or encouraging her to see her friends etc.
3. Try to arrange more "couple time" - a regular date night, short breaks without the kids, but where YOU do the legwork (booking it, arranging childcare etc) so it doesn't become yet another chore for her to deal with.

Good luck, OP. You sound like you're trying to do the right thing, but honestly, being a mother of young children is exhausting. Maybe you also need to ask her (when you're both relaxed and away from the kids) if there's anything she would really appreciate you doing differently. And then do it!

A nice story, vitaminC, but it's unusual. if a woman isn't physically attracted to a man he is almost certainly doomed.
You seem to be saying you actually want to make love and have sex with a man who holds little or no physical attraction for you just because you like him so much in other ways. This must be rare indeed.
A man could go around willingly doing everything he can think of to give his wife a nice, happy life, not to get sex as a reward but just because he really does care for her and is very fond of her. But if she doesn't fancy him physically, either now or any longer, he's had it. Intellectual compatibility is usually nowhere near enough, and interesting and entertaining conversations just don't cut the mustard. He normally has no chance.
Under average men with power and money and the charisma that sometimes goes with it can sometimes be exceptions though because some women will be highly impressed with suchlike and will find that very sexy.
Also, I think it must be true that sometimes men just want sex, just plain physical sex, either with you or with some other woman! This may not be flattering but to have to feel they want you, just you and you alone before you're willing to have sex is unrealistic in the extreme. For a man everything points to it being more about giving release to a basic physical urge. And similarly, a woman might fantasise about having sex with a tall dark stranger. it simply can't be elevated to 'making love' all the time.
Before Darkest eyes jumps in again with her shallow 'mysoginist' accusations about me I'd say she needs to observe people more perceptively and get a better grasp of what human nature is really like. She may think she has seen it all and done it all but it's clear to me that she has a fair bit more to learn.

I cannot see anywhere in my post that suggests I hate men.
I merely pointed out that she may have withdrawn as she feels she is not being listened to and that the OP is only concerned with the sex issue.
This could apply to the OP if they were a woman too, so how does it appear as man hate?

2712 - Sorry, but you just sound like you hate men. I would be happy to hear your story on here if you need to get something off your chest.

That comment sounds a bit like you are trying to provoke a reaction in a not very nice way. Do you make comments like that to your wife?

There is nothing in 2712's post that suggests she hates men

Don't worry about it, 2712. You're condemned for misandry and I'm condemned for mysoginy so you're not alone.
Ridiculous accusations are thrown around here like confetti. It's routine.

Before Darkest eyes jumps in again with her shallow 'mysoginist' accusations about me I'd say she needs to observe people more perceptively and get a better grasp of what human nature is really like. She may think she has seen it all and done it all but it's clear to me that she has a fair bit more to learn

Oh i get it I called you on the fact that you were generalizing which you have taken exception to so now you patronize instead.

Like i said women DONT all read celebrity shit like Heat and fawn over film stars and "tall dark handsome strangers" My last lover was a redhead guy with a very slight belly. But i loved that. I dont want perfection. And you know what we had? This thing called chemistry. And it was a very intense chemistry. We were drawn to each other in a very intense way.

Your "tall dark strangers" thing is STILL generalizing. Its too simplistic. I dont want some perfect airbrushed man. And i never will.

Trying to get other people to gang up on me Weed.
Where im from we call that bullying.
You are showing signs of being someone much worse than i first thought.

Darkesteyes - you are just plain wrong! I've no wish to do anything of the sort, nor have I ever. You really must stop thinking the worst of people.

Generalisations are always flawed to some degree and there are often plenty of exceptions. But, on the other hand, they are also useful in that they can indicate what is fairly common and normal, and often fairly obvious to most people.
If they are reasonably accurate they express how the majority, even the vast majority, of men or women behave in certain typical situations. So in spite of their defects their usefulness is validated by indicating general trends, preferences, predispositions, and so on.
A simple example of a very rough generalisation might be: Heterosexual young men like looking at young women and can easily get aroused by them
Of course this one is so obviously true that it would only be useful to a Martian And there will be exceptions...

OP she doesn't fancy you (this doesn't mean you're unfanciable) and basically, if there's no physical attraction there on her side, I'm pessimistic about that changing.
There's not enough info to say why the above might be the case, but it's actually quite difficult to hang on to physical attraction in an ltr and I'm not inclined to fault your wife for that alone. Sex is a want, not a need, ime (nourishment and shelter are needs). Some people neither greatly want nor need sex. That's only a problem if they're in a relationship with someone who does want sex.

If she won't talk about it though, that's different. I think firstly you have to have a think yourself about the logistics of being apart. Could you co-parent? Is there enough money to live separately? Having done that, you should just sit her down and tell her you're going for a trial separation because she's not willing for things to change. Tell her if she's willing to have a conversation or go to counselling after that separation, you'll do that, but if not, it's over.

People have suggested there might be fault on your side, but only you can answer that. From the bare facts you've given, you need to take some action.

Okay, this supposed "man hater" has a question.
You say that the sex was good at one stage. So, when did it start to go wrong? There must be a certain point in time that you can pinpoint where things started to slide.
Was there some big upheaval going on in your DW's life around that time?
Also, and I am NOT brandishing the "all men are the same" stick....you stated earlier that it's not the sex that matters so much as the closeness. But then you say you like to make love sometimes rather than just fuck. Sorry, but don't both those activities necessitate penetration, thereby the same thing?

Weed I do fancy my husband now, but the physical attraction came gradually when I grew to find him attractive as a person, not just a body.

If physical attraction can disappear over time, it should logically be able to develop, too, do you not think? In which case, if all the other parameters are in place, the spark can be rekindled in some relationships.

the spark can be rekindled in some relationships

In theory, I agree with that. I don't know how often it happens in practice though. From what OP is saying, his DW seems to have a lack of interest in him generally, not just sexually.

Yes, but if she's burnt out and exhausted, she may have a lack of interested in sex and men in general!

Which could possibly be turned around if some of the other aspects of her life improved and she started to feel better about herself and her life...

we are only get the OP's view of things but his wife sounds quite dismissive of him. it sounds like a bit of a mountain to climb. i still think counselling as the no 1 priority as its not so easy to dismiss a neutral third party

vitaminC, thank you for explaining. I was genuinely puzzled. Oh well, I think a lot of men would be sighing and thinking, "if only that would happen to me".

In the case of the OP it could be he's flogging a dead horse. He really needs to find out soon what his wife really wants of him and what she really thinks of him now, no matter about the past. She owes it to him. And then he can take action accordingly.
Counselling is obvious to try, but there's only so much that can do. It can't make a woman fancy a man if she simply doesn't any more.
Men (or women) can easily waste an important chunk of their lives, when they're still reasonably young, wishing and hoping for years for what will never happen.