not sure what she wants

[damnit1]

Ok, I have read quite a few threads from guys moaning about their wives, but I am going to and another anyway.

First of all.... I love my wife more than anything and would/do anything for her. The problem is I quite often feel taken for granted, like I will always just be there. I also feel that she is just with me because I offer some stability. She says she loves me, but I feel we are drifting apart.
She never talks to me and the only time I find stuff out about her is when she talks to her friends.
I will often ask her what has happened in her week, but she will often just reply "not much, "just the usual". I try to spark up a conversation or have some fun but she rarely wants to engage. However, this is quite different if someone else does this.
I will often ask her if everything is ok, or , is she happy and she will just reply with a bored yes.
Our sex life also sucks, I wont go over the usual "it used to be much better" (although it was), but she could easily go months without sex and she only seems to initiate if I have mentioned something the night before. I always get " im tired" or " not in the mood" and if I try to initiate by kissing her neck or touching her she will either just lie there or huff and move my hands. I have tried to build up slowly, quickly and every other method, but she is rarely interested (unless I mention it).
I have tried to talk to her about our sex life, but she hates talking about it. I have asked if there is anything I can do, but she just answers either "I don't think there is a problem" or something similar.
I have told her I need to have a physical relationship and I am willing to go to speak to someone as I feel it is becoming a problem, but she wont talk about it and will just roll away.

I honestly don't know what to do. I love her loads, but don't want to end up even more unhappy than now and I don't want her to be unhappy .
We have 2 young children and I don't want to separate for them (and the fact I love her), but I don't want to waste the next 10 years with someone who doesn't love me.

As I have already said, I have tried to talk to her about our problems, but she wont .

I don't know what to do. Am I just being over sensitive, childish or something else.

You haven't answered the questions about domestic work and leisure time, OP. Are you one of those men who think domestic work is unimportant and irrelevant and therefore women should just get on with it, because they are unimportant and irrelevant until you want to get your dick wet?

ok, um well the first birth took a bit of time, but she seemed to recover quite quickly. The second child was a lot easier.
We pretty much share the housework. for example I cooked dinner tonight, and do 50% of the ironing, hovering etc. I drop my daughter to nursery and pick up both children form school on some days.
We both put kids to bed and get them ready in the morning and I regularly look after the kids when she goes out.

OP, does your wife come onto MN?

Imperial - I honestly don't know. I know she has when the children were babies, to look at tips etc.

Well, that sounds good ... I'm almost sorry to hear, as that would be the easiest fix for a stagnant relationship. Thanks for replying.

What's the tone of general chit-chat in your house? Is it positive? Do you compliment DW (and the DC) on appearance, wit, creative achievements, etc?

If she's back at work, is she happy there, or stressing over the baby? Are there any problems like unpleasant politics or bullying?

... oh, and is your tackle nice and clean?

Sometimes the old stuff trickles away from our relationships while we're busy. Stuff like proper eye contact when speaking, considerate acknowledgement, noticing the little things. You know.

lol well I think my tackle is clean - I will give an extra scrub later lol

Garlicgrump - your last thread sounds very familiar.

Reading through this thread I almost felt you were my Dh writing it.
However, you state you are sharing the household chores and childcare, so not that( unless you are exaggerating your input).
To me, it appears that your DW is feeling a great deal of resentment towards you, and she is holding it all in for some reason. Maybe she feels that when you attempt to talk to her it always revolves around what you want or feel is wrong in the marriage. Have you really listened to what she has to say or do you just concentrate on your needs (sex).
BTW, I bristled at your post where you stated that you didn't go out very often without "the" wife. If that is how you view her then I'm not suprised she's switched off from you.

2712 - didn't mean it in the "her indoors sense". I will express myself more clearly from now on

BTW - not all men are all about sex and being a "bloke".
Although I do need sex, it is the physical closeness I miss the most. I often prefer to make love than to fuck.

It could be worth making a conscious effort with the little stuff, damn. Hold her gaze for a moment, even if it's all one way for a while. Remember to smile, touch her arm (or whatever your personal 'touch' might be) while talking, make those small signals of connection. Bringing back intimacy can be as subtle as the losing of it.

Do you happen to know which parts of you she especially loved in the early times? Wrists and forearms, perhaps; the colour of your eyes; the way you laugh; the shape of your jaw? There are usually a few. It might take a while to remember. Anyway, if you can think of them, try showing 'em off a bit! Not in a big way, just enough to catch her passing attention. You get the picture, I'm sure.

Hold her gaze for a moment, even if it's all one way for a while. Remember to smile, touch her arm

that's just patronising and stupid.

OP I suggest you tell her you wish to end the marriage. She will either 'man up' and start treating you like the father that you are, or she will agree. In which case you have a solid base to work from - ie do you go for 50/50 parenting and how do you split finances etc.

You might find a woman who actually wants to have sex with you AND slot in some hoovering.

fgs don't bother with the 'hold her gaze' advice. I've never heard anything so bloody stupid.

I don't think it's stupid. With jobs and young children, etc, etc, people forget to connect. It's called 'taking them for granted'. You might not like the way I've phrased it but, if you really do discount everything about non-verbal communication in relationships, then you shouldn't be advising anyone.

I'm not suggesting a bit of eye contact will magically solve all ills. I am suggesting that re-introducing forgotten connections might improve the emotional atmosphere.

...and of course, you should be advising everyone shouldn't you.

On what planet does asking for a divorce make a spouse feel more inclined to intimacy? You seriously suggest threatening her to get sex??!

Nope. She doesn't want sex with him. She won't discuss anything. He has every right to say 'shall we split as you don't fancy me or talk to me' That's not a threat that's just common sense.

What's your problem??

It's not my problem

This OP hasn't indicated any abuse in his marriage or suggested any worse problems than the erosion of intimacy that often does come with two small children and demanding jobs. He's not saying either of them wants a divorce yet. Even I'm not shouting LTB under these circumstances.

Maybe you've spotted signs of imminent death to his marriage that I've missed? If so, please enlighten me.

Maybe you have spotted signs of a sure-revival of this loving and potentially intimate and sex-filled marriage that I have missed.

Do continue to display all the signs of becoming slowly enraged when someone disagrees with you however as it's amusing.

Sorry for the tangential conflict op....

Do try to hold dear to the beguiling advice of Ms Garlicwhatever though, and improve your chances in the relationship by adhering to the following sage advice:

hold her gaze for a moment, even if it's all one way for a while. Remember to smile, touch her arm

then hoover like feck.

If she still won't engage you in conversation then you're flogging a dead horse.

Dear OP, You must first realise that if your wife came on here to discuss 'your' distant behaviour, the slant of the advice would be rather different to what many are giving you.

Our instincts about those close to us are very rarely wrong - that's why we have them. If you think this could be 'the end', then you are probably right. There is no point hanging around - this the error most men in this situation always seem to make "...maybe if I keep trying to please and walk on egg shells around her, it'll be OK?...", they tell themselves. Snap out of it - you cannot look to keep pleasing her in spite of your own obvious unhappiness.

If you are that determined to try and save the relationship then, you must make it explicit to her that you are not happy and that something needs to change (a frank conversation; counselling etc.) - she would not hesitate to do this if were you were the one being distant. At the very least, this will either draw her out or confirm that she has no real interest in working to stay together.

Alternatively, you can get really pragmatic and start planning an exit strategy.... yes, that means taking pro-advice from a men's issues family solicitor. Like I said, don't doubt your instincts.

Either way, you cannot carry on in the pathetically helpless and emasculated state that you clearly feel you are in at present. As a human being and you do not have to feel guilty for having needs and expectations of those whom you chose relate to.

Good luck

Maybe you have spotted signs of a sure-revival of this loving and potentially intimate and sex-filled marriage that I have missed.

I thought the signs were "I love my wife more than anything and would/do anything for her." and "We have 2 young children and I don't want to separate for them (and the fact I love her)."

Maybe you could make it clear OP, are you asking for advice on rekindling the flame or do you need help deciding if you want to end your marriage over lack of sex ? I had assumed from the thread title that it was the former.

I think the problem with ideas of 'rekindling the flame' is the age-old truism that, no matter how much you love someone, you can't make them love or fancy you back.

I don't think this is a situation for an ultimatum but I do think the OP has to have an honest conversation with his DW in which he expresses concern about them living increasingly separate lives, not communicating or connecting emotionally. If that has to be framed in the context of making him have doubts about the future of the relationship then I think that's valid and shouldn't be seen as a threat.

The starting point has to be not 'how do we have more sex' but 'how do we get closer as a couple generally'. If the reaction is still 'I don't think there is a problem' then there really wouldn't be a future.

by turn OP you've been told to up your domestic efforts, go sensitive and/or man up! i'd urge you to try and get to counselling as taking the wrong road here wastes time and could cause further damage to the relationship as chances are if you don't up the communication you will never even know what has caused an improvement (if you get one) - and eg if your wife does want you to be more macho then she has to tell you in a supportive way not prompt it by detaching - its just not healthy

I think Deedotty's comments were spot on. Read them again. You need to face it that as you are presenting yourself you are no longer attractive to her, neither mentally nor physically.
She can't be bothered talking to you or discussing what's been happening because you're not worth it for her. Why should she bother even telling you? She has no interest in what you've got to say, either about yourself or about her. Her friends are far more interesting.
And of course she doesn't want to be made love to by a faithful, but needy soul who's pleading for a little sex. It's all just too damned boring and a turn-off. She wants a 'real' man - but they're dangerous and exciting and you never quite know if you have them because you know they could easily get someone else. They're never dependent on you. They're free independent spirits. They're desirable men! Sadly, that's the type that turns them on... think of film stars.
Do you know if she has any sexual needs herself? Or does she just happily do without? What exactly is she doing about that if there's no sex with you hardly?
To interest excite this woman again, or get her actually wanting you to touch her or start finding you desirable again I think you'd need to re-invent yourself, make big, big changes along the lines of Dottydee's suggestions. At the moment you sound subservient to her.

And if that doesn't work and your relationship comes to an end you'd find these changes would stand you in good stead with other women.
Women don't really go for 'terribly, terribly nice, good' men who treat them as if they were precious china. That's why so many nice, good men can never get the women they want, or indeed any woman at all sometimes.

Weedkiller im a woman and ive never gone for a "bad boy" in my life. What a load of stereotypical crap.

Your stereotype of women seems to be that we all read celebrity rags and fawn over film stars.

well i dont. People like Tom Cruise et al leave me completely cold. Your post is dripping with mysogyny.