MIL tearing us apart

[helpMILprobs]

I have namechanged to avoid being identified by this post

DH and I have been together for 8 years. We don't have children yet but are hoping to in the next year or so -although if this issue is not resolved I would not bring children into this mess.

MIL is tearing us apart. DH has been brought up to do as she says to avoid conflict. He cannot tell her to her face that he disagrees with anything she says - even if she is pulling me to pieces he doesn't stand up to her.

MIL hates me and blames me for everything. Originally she said that I took her son from her - but he moved to the other end of the country for work and it was two years later that I moved in with him.

If DH doesn't phone home for a few days then she says it's my fault because I won't let him (which is nonsense) but she doesn't think to pick up the phone and call him. If we don't visit as regularly as she would like again she says it's my fault etc. Recently she accused me of ruining every family occasion I have attended in the past 8 years (she quoted them all - at x occasion I was too quiet so I was rude, at y occcasion I went to bed at 1am which was rude, at z occasion I asked FIL a question about his brother that was rude - I was just trying to show an interest!) I then decided that I have had enough and DH can visit them, speak to them etc but I'll steer clear.

This has been fine for several months but DH now wants me to try and reconcile. I understand that it is difficult for him but I don't feel reconciliation is possible with the way I am treated by MIL. She has said any problems are 100% my fault because I am rude and don't show her any respect but her reasons are that I am too quiet and now she says by not visiting I am being rude and disrespectful. I tried to explain to her on the phone but she shouted me down and wouldn't listen.

DH is now threatening to divorce me because if I don't go and visit his parents then he says I am effectively making him choose and he will not cut his family out. I have no problem with him phoning and visiting - but I feel he is unreasonable to expect me to be treated the way I am and still go back for more grief.

I am hurt that DH seems to value his relationship with his Mother more than he values our relationship and I feel that he doesn't care about my feelings - and that I should put up with it all if I love him.

I would appreciate any advice in how to deal with this situation. Apologies for such a long post.

LTB

I wouldn't make any drastic decisions but I would definitely not have a child in your situation.

On one hand I think you need to sit down with DH and have a proper conversation about your feelings.

On the other hand he has threatened to divorce you if you don't do as he says. What's going to happen next time you disagree with something he want you to do?

Also if he isn't on your side now,after 8 years, then its unlikely he ever will be.

Ultimately this your decision but I would think long and hard about what I want out of my marriage and home life before agreeing to anything.

Sorry for the random emoticon.

I don't normally post on threads talking about MIL and family issues like this but I feel compelled to, having read your last post.

If you do have children by this man, the chances are that your choices for schooling, faith (if it is relevant), clothing, socialising, basically everything to do with them will be dictated to you by both him and his mother and you will never have your opinion valued or taken by either of them.

Your DH has to stand up to his mother. At the moment his family is YOU. If you have children his family will be you and the children. His mother is still his mother but she takes a lower position now in the pecking order.

Why don't you make a counter-offer to his threat of divorcing you if you don't try and mend bridges with his mother - the counter-offer would be that she must try and mend bridges with you, otherwise you will give strong consideration to divorcing him!

He has already agreed that you weren't being rude so the obvious conclusion is that his mother was the one being rude.

She has been the matriarch in that family for so long she hasn't had anyone stand up to her or to take her to task. If you really do want to stay married to your husband, you will have to stand up to her together and whatever happens, whatever the fall out from standing up to her, you are both in this together as a team. If you can't get that, you will have given it your best shot and you should walk away before there are any children in the equation.

I don't envy you but I do wish you every bit of good luck trying to sort it out.

Even if his threat of divorce is an empty threat, it is still an abusive tactic. Massive red flag for someone who doesn't possess healthy strategies for dealing with relationship conflict.

I think you are right to stick to your guns about no contact with MIL. Her grievances are likely to be, to a large extent, random - you could meet her again and be the most polite human being that ever walked the planet, but she would just find something else to pull you up on. This is because her complaints are irrational and stem from her insecure need to reject and drive away anyone that threatens her emotional hold over her son.

You could try pointing out to your DH the parallels between his behaviour towards you and his MIL's behaviour. The comparison might just shock him into some degree of insight. However, you need to be aware that he has most likely been conditioned his entire life to placate his mother in order to avoid the emotional pain of her rejection. He will have an overwhelming and quite primitive need to avoid her displeasure, and you are essentially putting yourself in the position of the enemy by asking him to put your need to be treated with respect over his need for self-preservation.

I'm not saying that you are in the wrong (far from it) - I'm just pointing out what you are up against.

her complaints are irrational and stem from her insecure need to reject and drive away anyone that threatens her emotional hold over her son

I think Methren has summed it up 100% beautifully in that one sentence.

'Even if his threat of divorce is an empty threat, it is still an abusive tactic. Massive red flag for someone who doesn't possess healthy strategies for dealing with relationship conflict.'

So true, it's emotional abuse OP. I'm so sorry you're going through this

This situation would be absolute total hell on earth if you had children. MIL sounds like the sort of person that would have no qualms about trying to turn your children against you, and would likely start demanding to see them more often than you might be comfortable with. You really need to put yourself first here.

This is a much bigger problem than you realise. Both your MIL and your DH are bullying you. You are happy to let your H visit his parents, but do not want to be subjected to abuse yourself- when you are unwilling to put yourself forward to be screamed at and verbally abused, your H threatens to divorce you rather than taking any kind of action to stand up for the woman he is supposed to love.

Marriage shouldn't be like this. It's meant to be a supportive partnership.

And don't fall into the trap of thinking that having children would repair the relationship. You might well still end up divorced, but with MIL and H using the children to threaten you with.

If you genuinely think your marriage can move on from this, you need to try to have a rational conversation with your H about. He needs to understand that you are not making him choose, he is free to visit his parents ; however, you are not willing to subject yourself to his mother's tirades of blame and accusation, and you are deeply hurt and disappointed that your supposed life partner is trying to force you into a distressing situation rather than accept that his mother does not have the right to bully and abuse you. Don't plead with him about not divorcing- he knows full well that he is far more likely to get you to capitulate than make any headway at all with his mother. If he threatens divorce, then you need to reiterate that you absolutely do not want to divorce but you are not willing to be forced into this emotionally damaging contact. He might realise what he stands to lose.

If you do give in, they'll find something else to get at you for.

Next time he mentions divorce, just agree with him, and ask him to specify exactly how property/accounts will be divided up.

Sadly I speak from all too bitter experience

OP, I think you should think very carefully about your future. It takes a very robust personality to emerge unscathed from the sort of up-bringing your husband has had - and he is already showing signs that he has learned some unhealthy relationship lessons.

My DH backs me 100% in my dealings with my MIL, and yet we still have enormous problems in our marriage because he has learned some very dysfunctional behaviour patterns from his mother. These problems only really came to light after we had children, because it was having children that really tested my DH's ability to compromise, to put others' needs above his own, to be empathetic, to not be the centre of attention. MIL doesn't do any of these things, so he has no model for them.

We've had a lot of problems with my ILs over the years. I would advise you to think very very carefully about what you do here OP. Thankfully dh and I have worked together to deal with them and things now feel manageable but we have fairly limited contact with them.

Things escalated massively when we got married and then again even more so when we had children. I love my dh to bits but hand on heart I don't know if I would have married him if I had known what was ahead.

What I've learned is that they are not going to change but we can manage the situation by setting boundaries and keeping to them. There is no point trying to explain things to them so we just started acting the way we wanted things to be. If FIL starts kicking off we just change the subject or walk away and tbh would be prepared to leave if that didn't work (but it's never got to that point) If MIL rings up for a rant dh justs says oh sorry Mum got to go. She can only complain and rant if someone is listening! I am sure they bitch about us loads behind our backs but tbh I don't really care!

This was a major shift for both of us (I saw a counsellor who helped me set it up) but it has transformed the situation for us. Dh didn't want to go non-contact (which I totally respect) but I had reached a point where it felt intolerable to me. This way I can manage a few visits a year.

A key point for me was when the counsellor pointed out that we had been trying to keep them happy for a long time but they were never ever happy anyway - so we might as well do things the way we wanted to! It is so true.

To be honest, I would not be married to a family like this, for sadly you dont just marry the man but his family too.

I would tell him that you are quite pleased he brought up divorce, as you have been toying with the idea yourself. You dont want a husband who cant stand up to his mum, and you dont want a mother in law who treats you in this way. The fact that he does not see where you are coming from at all, means he is so in her apron strings that the marriage is pointless. Tell him his behaviour regards to his mum is neither here nor there but have presented you with the grounds of "Unreasonable behaviour" to cite in any divorce proceedings. Tell him he is welcome to petition for divorce, but you might beat him to it.

And mean it. I would mean it if I were you.

Christ, let him go. I married one like this and It. Is. Not. Worth. It.

What the others say. Do not have a child in this situation. Definitely do not offer to let it and your H go to your MIL without you.

Will you be happy to stop breast feeding so that the child can go with H to MIL when still a baby? As Lunatic says will you be happy to not see your new born for HOURS so that a selfish woman and weak man can have their way?

Say you get through the first few months. He wants to take any child to see MIL for birthdays/Christmases/easters. You say no you want to see them. He threatens you with divorce AGAIN because his mum wants to see them and now there are children stuck in the middle.

The children go to see MIL. She bitches her arse off about you and your H just sits there. Your child gets confused that mummy may be this vile person. Your child hides this from you or tells you. They tell you and you tell H enough they don't get to go see MIL again. So again H threatens divorce. So you fall back into your box because you don't want to deprive the child of their daddy.

Or even worse your MIL perpetuates the cycle and is vile to your child. You are not there to stop it. Your H is a pathetic wimp and allows this to happen. Your child feels shit and upset. Once old enough your child asks you if they are this bad. You say enough to your H so he threatens you with divorce.

If you care for your DC you will divorce. Your DC will feel really bad like it is their fault and mummy and daddy would still be together if only they had STFU.

This is without all the added what if your child has allergies or MIL knows better on weaning etc.

There is no win for you or your child in this situation while your H is determined that his mother comes first.

I am sorry but I think your best option is to ask him if he wants to do this amicably online or if you need a solicitor.

If it shocks him enough to realise you are serious then counselling to get him free from the MIL leash is a must before you have any children.

He has an emotionally abusive family and uses emotional abuse himself.

If you want to have children with this man I strongly urge you to go to counselling specifically to deal with this issue.

Having dc tests you to your limits and I would be very afraid that he would emotionally abuse your children if he does not acknowledge and address the abusive upbringing he had.

For me having a dh who did not put me (and any dc) before his mother would be a deal breaker. If he would not seek counselling over thus I would be seeking a divorce myself.

(I speak from exp with my dh and his toxic father, we are only together now because he has always known me and dc come first)

I should add that dh is a lovely and loving dh and father, BUT he was emotionally abusive to us all for a few yrs before I recognised it for what it was and we worked thru it. He knew no other way to be a father and husband, but it only really became obvious when we had children.

Wow, she sounds truel awful. I think you have handled it well so far but I would be very upset and concerned about your DH's comments. Threatening divorce is an extreme thing to do.

You need to sort this out with your DH before contemplating having kids.
He can have a relationship with his parents without you. Noone is making him chose.

When you talk to your DH, I would strongly suggest the you consciously make your behaviour as different to your MIL's as possible.

So - no getting angry, no threats, no calling him "weak" or "under the thumb", no insisting that x happens "or else". These are behaviours your MIL would use, and IME men like this will take this sort of behaviour from their mothers but resent it hugely when it comes from someone else. Using any of these behaviours in your conversation with him is likely to intensify his resistance to your point of view.

Be as calm, measured and rational as possible. Of course you are upset about this, but I doubt it will help to show it (MIL is likely to have used tears in the past to get her own way). Set boundaries and state your expectations of reasonable behaviour. If he doesn't respond to this (healthy) approach, then I'm afraid you may have your answer.

I don't want to derail the thread, but Josie would you mind posting further on how you and your DH worked through things once you realised his behaviour was abusive?

Because that's what I'm facing at the moment

My MIL was like this.

It didn't change until DH realised he had to choose, or we would split up.

If your DH can't accept this, or if he chooses his mother (which it seems he is) then perhaps he is right, and divorce is the only option.

She will not change - she has no reason to. If he always takes her part over yours, things will get worse, not better.

The difficult thing then is, it will feel like she has "won" by doing what she wanted and splitting you up. But, in fact, you will be in a much better place if you don't have to live with his toxic family. So she won't have "won" at all.

(My MIL is still difficult, but now DH and I are on the same side, so it's much better.)

You are not making him choose between you and his family, because you aren't forcing him to stop seeing them. You are basically setting boundaries so that you won't be mistreated by this woman. Your husband probably refuses to see this because it would force him to see how his mother mistreats HIM.

I think he's bluffing, but you should take a firm stance here. If he says that he will divorce you if you won't comply just say "Fine. Go ahead". And go through with it.

And no, no children until this is settled either way. Your mother in law would probably try to snatch them away from you.

Hi methran!
Well I did lots of posting and reading on this board so I got clear in my head what was wrong with what was happening.
We then had lots of horrible conversations where I called him on it all and he came to terms with how he was being.

He realised that this was make or break, I was ready to leave, so he really had to face it. At root he is a good guy so he was willing to change. It was just v painful for him to face how he had been.

Basically he was v angry, no frustration tolerance with me or the dc, so I was on eggshells and the dc were
Either v quiet or acting out.

After facing up to it it was like a switch flipped, he tried really hard, to start with it was a bit unnatural and he found discipline impossible, but a few months on he's really different and much more natural with the dc, who are much much happier.

My own family are v emotionally detached so between us we don't have very good childhood experiences to draw on - it has made me realise just how much your own childhood affects your parenting so I just felt I had to post.

Hope this helps, have 3 dc to look after so hard to write too much!

You could end up having two children and your MIL would decide one was theirs (whichever one looked like them more) and the other was yours. One good kid and one bad one.

My MIL is very narcissistic as is SIL and I see them favouring one of my children over the other. The good thing is neither of my kids is that interested in them, so it mostly washes over their heads (but still the toxicity permeates into the minutia of daily life - and the mother has to try to manage it).

Thanks Josie, that's very helpful. Lots to think about...