New partner needing 'time'

[confusedisitme]

I've recently started seeing someone - it's been under a month officially but we were very close before that for about 6 months.

He seems to come across as quite intense in his 'feelings' - always saying things like how he's broken, doesn't wan to lose me (said in that breathless, urgent way you'd imagine someone to say it in a cheesy american movie!) and the first week we were together he kept saying how strong his feelings were, felt like we'd been together a lot longer and all that stuff.

However, because he'd recently split up with someone and because of the fact I don't get on with a family member of his (I knew this family member before I knew him and we've never got along), he's been reluctant to tell anyone he's seeing me - he wanted to wait until the summer and then he felt like he'd be able to tell his close family members (including this person that hates me).
This caused issues between us, because I felt like we couldn't go out anywhere - he'd come and visit me at home, stay over etc and we have been out a few times out of town, but I want to just be able to go to the local restaurant or something in town and not worry that he'll be looking over his shoulder. He says I want everything 'now' and it's not possible...so because of this we argue - not full on rows, but niggly sort of things where usually one of us says we can't cope with it, and it's all up in the air again.

We were due to go out last night together, in town for a meal.

It'd been planned for 2 weeks, I had got my mum to have my three children overnight so we could go out (which meant me buying air beds and a travel cot so they could sleep at her house), and then Friday morning I had asked him to come over that night because we had been arguing and I wanted to try and fix us before I could go out with him the next night...eventually he agreed, we had a slight niggle but the rest of the night was fine, he said he couldn't lose me, the next morning he was very loving and we left on a good note - although he hadn't gone to sleep when I told him to that night, instead he kept trying it on for 90 minutes so we ended up only having about 4 hours' sleep :(

It got to 5pm on Saturday, the kids had already gone to my mum's and he text saying he was very tired, hadn't had a chance to sleep and would have to stay home - then didn't seem to understand why I was pissed off. I asked him to stick to the arrangements, he said he needed sleep and it spiralled into this massive argument and him refusing to even come over and see me, but stay in the house with me and not go out...which annoyed me further.

Eventually at 9pm he agreed to come over but sleep on the sofa, but said it would be finished for good if I "made him" come over...so he turned up, was very cold (I'd hoped I could win him round a bit but it didn't happen) and eventually left again after saying he couldn't handle this, and I should've let him stay at home.

He's now saying we need to "work on positive texts and see how we go" - we can't see each other now until the weekend after next as we both have commitments, so he wants me to basically just send him chatty, random texts through the next couple of weeks, effectively covering up how hurt I am and not talking about 'us' until he decides whether he misses me and wants to try again or not.

I understand that all this arguing has got him down; it has me too, but on Friday night he said he can't lose me with that sense of urgency and passion that made it seem like he loved me...then last night he said his feelings had significantly reduced over the past week or so and he wants to se if he can get them back - to me, I don't want to wait around to see if his feelings reappear; if they went in the first place (mine haven't, despite the arguing) then it feels like I'd be losing the self respect I still have left by taking him back if he decided he wanted to.

Does that make sense at all?

Apologies for the essay...I suppose I'm just wondering if he's being unreasonable in what he's asking of me now, or I am.

PS - he did text me last night saying that he can't see how he can be with me, but the thought of not being with me hurts him like crazy; and that he just needs a bit of space from the arguing, and just positive texting for a week or so, and see if it helps his feelings reappear.

MmeOvary makes a good point, which may not have been clear in all your other replies confused. The signs are that 'Janny' doesn't really have your best interests at heart, and your boundary issues have made you easy prey for a user/manipulator. Please do stay properly single now, see your GP and do some reading about co-dependency.

What are the people on the other forum saying?

Pretty much the same as us (only a couple of replies) but it's clear they don't know the backstory...

What I've been asking all along, and no one has properly answered yet...is why you think he's a user/manipulator rather than just aggravated by all the arguing and/or confused about what he wants?

Because.

He's a sixty year old man with weird baggage who is coming on much too strongly with someone (you) who is clearly quite vulnerable and has odd boundaries.

He's a wrong 'un.

I bet he can't actually believe his luck that you've shagged him.

Does it really matter though when it's clearly a dysfunctional relationship?

Why do you feel you need to cling to this man so much? As I said before you need to get your own mental health sorted before you can embark on a loving relationship.

The 'relationship' (and I use that word in it's loosest term) is just wrong. End of.

As to why he's bad news, he is chasing a woman almost young enough to be his grandaughter. I'm sorry but that is just icky. I know many age gap relationships that are very successful, but only when both parties are pretty mature and sensible, and frankly the pair of you seem to be away with the fairies.

I can only agree with the many posts on this thread which have said you really are in no place for any kind of a relationship, and if you were, you'd be able to see this man for what he is, and not be clinging to him or this non-relationship like a limpet.

You really do need to stop revelling in the drama, step away from it, seek some help resolving your issues and then (and ONLY then) once you are on an even keel, months maybe even a couple of years from now, think about men. But not this one. One who has a lot less issues...and is closer to your own age. And can actually offer a proper relationship.

Blimey, when I'm up the school all I am thinking about is what to buy for tea, tackling the washing up left at home, hoping that flashing speed camera last week was a decoy, worrying about the two doughnuts I ate last night and getting out of there as fast as I can. No way am I seeing if a teacher is glancing at me more than once, hanging about in corridors or fartarsing around at my sons school play.

Still I suppose that if I wanted a Mills and Boon existence I could maybe invent one to make my incredibly dull life a bit more interesting.

Can this thread go in the 'All Time Classic MN Threads'. It is horribly addictive.

He seems to always leave himself an "out" ifyswim.

I like you but .....

Like a built in escape route.

Plus he's keeping you secret.

TBH honest though it doesnt sound like he's making you happy. So does it really matter if he is genuine or not? Him being genuine in theory doesn't mean this is a healthy relationship to be in. It all sounds tremendously hard work and dramatic.

For a start he began a relationship with you before he'd finished with his last GF (if she existed).

He claimed all kinds of feelings early on which no mature, sorted and healthy individual would consider acting upon. But he did. So he's not mature nor sorted and not healthy in that respect. A mature, sorted healthy woman would tell such a man to fuck off listen to himself if he declared (breathlessly or not) love within a few days. These are examples of manipulative behaviours even if you don't see them as such. You don't have to agree that they are, but they are.

Along with that he's probably aggravated by your own pretty appalling behaviour because even though you seem desperate for a relationship you're not making it as easy for him as you might.

These aren't 'proper' explanations or reasons for you to step away from the aged janny. There are none. You don't want them. You just like talking about them ad nauseum OP.

This relationship exists almost entirely in your head. What is actually happening is far more ordinary and mundane. So just go with it and enjoy it while it lasts OP.

As interesting as the the janny-shag thing is the relationship you have with MN posters. It's the same pseudo close and intense stuff that must make you feel interesting for a while.

Sad for your kids though.

I rarely post on other threads, but I want to answer your last question, OP.

Why do posters think he is a user/manipulator?
OP, you may believe that you don't come across as needy in rl as you do here, but in the text conversation you transcribed you are being needy. A non-needy person simply wouldn't have entertained that conversation beyond 'it's difficult for both of us'.
By continuing the conversation, the message you gave this man was that you wanted his attention, and that his situation didn't put you off. You may not have said it in so many words, but that's the message he will have got.

You said you asked what he thought about the situation with the teacher - that story shows that you are inept at judging other peoples behaviour, and it sounds like you were looking for signs that the teacher fancied you.

These examples make you sound very needy. Most people would run a mile from a relationship with someone who came across as you do in the above examples.

He declared his love for you almost immediately. Yes, this does happen to some people, but this man (if I remember right from a different thread) has done this before. Didn't he make the decision to move to Oz to be with his ex, when he and his ex had only being seeing each other very briefly? People who repeatedly 'fall in love' at the drop of a hat are not in touch with their real feelings. This is a sign that someone is not likely to be good at forming healthy relationships.

He might well be fed up of all the arguing, and you wondered earlier up thread how else he should have reacted to you and the arguments. I'm sorry to be blunt, but after less than a month, most people would have walked away. If he was just confused about what he wanted, the arguing should have made his mind up for him. He should have walked away.

You might well be subconsciously sabotaging the relationship, or testing him, but the fact that he has hung around is not a sign that he loves you or that he's confused. It's a sign that his boundaries are as mixed up as yours are.

well if memory serves it's janny night tonight

Whist obsessing and posting mammoth essays trying to justify quite simply stalkerish behaviour with random men that cross her path, OP has completely neglected to and ignored all the posts regarding her DC.

Instead of focusing and obsessing over yourself and yet another random bloke try writing your essay size posts on the following:

What your DCs witnessed at the hands of your ex and the impact on them

What emotions they went through

What your DCs want and need to enable them to have a happy, settled, peaceful childhood.

What damage yet another strange man might have in their life

What the repercussions and problems it would cause them you seeing someone from their school

Don't dare bang on about being a good mother when your kids are quite clearly an after thought when it comes to you and your desperation to be with anyone.

OP why are you so desperate for MN to give you answers?

call me cynical but - maybe OP would feel validated if this thread reached 1000 posts and we still haven't found the solution.

Op has had the answer long ago

She's probably busy getting tons of sympathy of nethuns now.

How did you get on at the docs?

He does sound very srtande indeed.

Do you really want to be treated like this?

Start and make arrangemnts with other friends, do things without him. You need to break away.

Have we seen this one yet?

apologies if it's already been mentioned/linked but I don't recall seeing it.

wtf!! fellatio she's obsessed! !

Still waiting for her return to answer my questions about her poor kids.

Oh, no!

I should just hide the threads - all of them. But it's kind of compulsive

Well suppose I'd better update, not that anyone will care/be surprised...

Can't remember whether I posted about this but last weekend he had ended it on the Saturday (18th - thinking about it I must have mentioned it because I was posting on the 19th wasn't I), then on the Monday I text him just apologising and he replied saying he had missed me...so I asked him to see me that evening and he agreed.

I think we got on at first but then argued a bit..can't remember why or how much now as it's all merged into one (prob says on this thread somewhere) and then we went to bed, he did that thing of saying he wanted to be with me but wasn't sure he could commit, then saying "marry me" to prove his intention to commit...then in the morning I think we left on a pretty good note.

Texted him a bit later that morning saying I wanted to see him sooner but would wait until Thurs as we'd arranged, he said that was a good idea "if we can wait that long", I said it would be thurs as he didn't want to see me sooner (in a jokey way) and he replied that "of course I do, I always want to see you and share your bed...if we could actually get a decent night's sleep it was be so tempting to share your bed every night" and then I replied (half joking) "you'll just have to move in, lol". He said "I wish I could just do that but wouldn't trust my dog with your kids".

It felt like it was going well, obviously though I misread things again as by Thursday when I asked him to see me, he was unsure. He kept saying it was over, he was emotionally empty and couldn't carry on seeing me, he was sad he knew he can't commit to me and thought I was probably his best chance, but needed to be truly alone.
I convinced him to see me, he turned up and it wasn't awkward, we got on well, although he did start to look quite upset at one point and started saying he really wanted to be with me, but didn't want to end up hurting me and the children if he just got cold feet and did one eventually. I hugged him, he responded, I kept saying if I'm not right for him then I'm not right for him...he kept asking "but why aren't you right for me? Why do I keep coming back?" and things like that, then he said he'd better go and I convinced him to stay.
He did keep saying he wanted to be with me, long term etc., but just kept bringing up the commitment thing, and then in the morning I asked him to see me that night again and he refused, saying we'd already arranged to see each other next week.

I pestered him throughout Friday morning asking him to see me, he kept refusing and then at 5.30pm said he'd been thinking about it all day and it was over, he just didn't have the strength to continue "however much I wanted to L(".
I begged and begged for him to see me but he wouldn't, so I decided to go and see him before his martial arts class at 8pm (which was only down the road from me). Thought he'd see me and change his mind...he didn't :(
Ended up pacing around looking distraught, saying it wasn't me but he just couldn't do it and didn't know why...then he walked me home (missing his class) and came in - but just stood on the doorstep. He wouldn't make eye contact and kept asking me to just accept that he can't do it anymore, through Friday morning he had realised he didn't want to see me the following week and that's why he texted me then rather than waiting until next week. I begged and begged, looking a right idiot, asked him to stay but he refused, then left eventually.

Saturday there was more texting, initiated by me, he said "sadly I don't love you, you can't pressure someone into loving you but you will be loved you are worth it. You are kind, caring, gentle and loving, beautiful and sexy...that is your true nature. Focus on your kids you are a caring, loving mother and they grow up too fast. I do have feelings for you and do care about you, will help you as much as I can but sadly that does not include seeing you. I will not abandon you. I wish you all the love and luck in the world x"

After more of me begging and asking why he'd said only on the Monday that he wanted to be with me, was sure etc., he went from saying "you're fantastic, just not for me" to "you're just too young for me...not your fault just how I FEEL" and then said that maybe in future if circumstances were right, he would try again.

I then asked if I left him alone til Thursday and then asked him to see me for an hour would he...he replied "don't know but you should've just left it til thurs and then asked...if you want a definite answer now then it has no to be :( bang door slammed."

I asked again and his reply was "I have to say I do admire your persistence. You said last night I could impose any terms...it would be so tempting physically for me to come round, fuck you...as that is all it would be...then leave. How would that be good for either of us? I would be no better than your ex. I'm not like that and don't want to be that person...though they say there is evil in all of us, only morality keeps us good. I do have feelings for you but if I ever met up with you again I would need to be sure that it was for the right reasons and not just because I am a lonely old man...who has given up on relationships. I am trying to protect you the best I can and you forcing me to do things doesn't help."

That was lunchtime Saturday and this morning my ex (children's dad) messed me around with seeing them, so I ended up sending this guy a looong text apologising for not treating him better, saying how much he did for me and how great he is, saying I wish he'd given us one last chance and that I needed to do what he needs and wants now so if he wants me to cut all contact then I will...2 hours later and he hasn't replied, so I'm guessing he never will :( (he usually replies fairly quickly).

God that was long, sorry.

Just one last question...you know all of the above? You reckon he just said it all to shut me up, or is there any chance he was just confused?

He's trying desperately to get rid of you while letting you down gently. It's so identical to what I've heard before it's like he's reading a script: he doesn't want to be with you.

This must be a wind up, surely?

Please OP. LTB. Do not contact this man again and please look intro some sort of counselling for yourself.

Confused, you need to stop this now. It's bordering on obsession and your stalking is a huge red flag.
Leave him alone.