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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Does anyone else feel dismayed by what some people will tolerate in their relationships?

159 replies

Ledkr · 11/05/2013 08:51

Thread about many threads but I sometimes worry that I'm just am old battle axe because when I read some if the stuff on here I'm just shocked at what some people put up with.
I can go early say that if dh went on a dating website, called me names, left me short of money or refused to help with his house or children he'd be out if my life.
Not being smug at all I was in a very subdivide relationship and my exh cheated but both times I got rid.
I'm in my forties so am sad to think that some young women are being raised to tolerate this. Shouldn't it be different now that its easier to go it alone?
Such a pity.

OP posts:
lolaflores · 11/05/2013 19:26

Accidentally? Bet they were shell shocked. But the rugby team sound as though they were a receptive audience. No harm done I am sure.

HighBrows · 11/05/2013 19:27

Ledkr I absolutely see where you are coming from, I read threads here and on other fora and am always surprised what people put up with.

I've never experienced DV and am glad that your past experience is being used for good and to help others.

I don't think you need to justify this thread at all, especially answering people here about your DV. At the end of the day most normal and sane people read threads here and elsewhere and I'm sure they are as stunned as me with what shit people put up with.

I also believe that DV is getting worse, or is it that people just talk about it now?

I hope your DS gets a transplant soon.

FreddieMisaGREATshag · 11/05/2013 19:30

The myths they believed were staggering. Like women couldn't swim if they were on their period and sanitary towels were not made of sponges. Well, not usually. And that women could get pregnant if you shagged them standing up which was an utter shocker.

lolaflores · 11/05/2013 19:31

I think women (and men) are feeling more able to express their hurt and the violence they live with. There is less of the taboo around it to a degree, but there is still shame felt.
I mean. Look at the amount of victims of abuse coming forward simply because of Jimmy Savile? Do you think that in a million years those people would have breathed a word outside of those they trusted with the details of what they exprienced without the knowledge that they would not have been blamed, stigmatised or so on?
It is my sincerest hope that this wave of speaking up continues. It can only mean freedom for thousands.
Only a matter of decades ago a woman couldn't get a mortgage without her husband! We ahve come so far, but yet...

Ledkr · 11/05/2013 19:32

No perfect not to you I'm sorry if you thought that. It was to fellatio who seems to have a bee in her bonnet about me not being able to be dismayed at what some people put up with because I'd suffered dv 27 years ago as a teenage girl.
Nit sure why.

OP posts:
Ledkr · 11/05/2013 19:35

Thank-you highbrows what a kind post.

OP posts:
Lweji · 11/05/2013 19:47

Even so why can a victim if previous mistreatment not be dismayed to see women still tolerating it 27 yrs later? I made no judgment I merely said it made me sad to see no changes.

Sadly, each person starts from zero.
Our own experiences count for nothing, and even improvements in society, count for little.

That is why I have to admit I was (still am) a bit Hmm about your OP and title.
It's like saying, I have stopped doing drugs because I have realised they are not good for me and I am dismayed that young people still get hooked up.

HighBrows · 11/05/2013 20:11

Lweji most ex-users I know would and do express dismay that kids are still using drugs.

Honestly once someone has gotten out of a bad situation be it drug use or DV they do try to help those that are stuck in bad situations.

I have an ex husband, he's a lovely bloke but after almost 10 years of marriage we drifted apart, there was no DV, no underlying issue, no other woman or man.

We broke up civilly. He is a wonderful ex husband and great father. So when I read threads on boards like this I am dismayed that people put up with a plethora of shit. It actually breaks my heart the situations people are in and sometimes I'm ashamed to say I stop reading for a while.

So I get what the OP is saying and I get what others are saying on this thread. What I don't get is how horrible people can be and insist on questioning the OP on something that happened almost 30 years ago.

sarahseashell · 11/05/2013 20:21

very interesting thread. I believe things are currently getting worse in terms of the media and the way women are treated in it, the lack of recognition of the job done by single mothers, the lack of recognition of the difficulties of two partners in a relationship holding down careers and the expectation that childcare roles fall to women, the myth that women need to be in a relationship, should be scared of 'ageing' and of being alone and so on.

Thank goodness for MN I only wish I'd discovered it sooner and not spent years in an EA relationship. Fortunately for me the exh left after an affair. My self esteem at that point was so low it did take a good few years to build back up but I'm a lot happier now. I did give up a career to be a SAHM - there was plenty of money coming in on one salary and I trusted exh it seemed right at the time. My financial/career position ain't great now obviously but I feel lucky to have spent time with dcs, can manage and have retrained. Childcare is a constant issue. When I read newspaper articles such as divorcees having a meal ticket for life and so on I feel Angry

The other day there was a study which showed it wasn't advantageous for either gender to be with someone more than 10 years older or younger, apparently. The headline was along the lines of 'bad news for cougars' when it could just as easily have been 'bad news for midlife men' or whatever. It's these little things drip drip drip women always one down, particularly older women IMO

Ledkr · 11/05/2013 20:24

Ex users make some of the best drug workers too.
To be fair though when I posted it really wasn't about dv. It was on response to so many threads I read on here and of rl friends experiences.
Men (predominantly) who openly go on dating/sex sites, don't help with children or house, spend weeks away on lads holidays, call their do names, have shed loads if money to themselves and afford their wives a meagre allowance. Of course all these things can be cited as abuse however I wasn't talking about sustained dv which of course is not easy to end due to many deciding factors.
I'm sad that I had to justify this as I said I was "dismayed" not annoyed or angry or that I thought they were weak or even said they should leave.
I merely felt saddened to see what some people will actually tolerate without taking action even if that action is simply not putting up with it.
I'm sure someone will come along and pick to peices what I have said so I shall jolly off to watch the voice now and leave it there.
Night all.

OP posts:
Charbon · 11/05/2013 20:37

Some very interesting posts to absorb but for now wanted to come back to arthritic's accusation of 'victim-blaming'. I was referencing some very specific behaviours that I've observed happening in abusive relationships, which frankly are no less excusable especially when children suffer the fall-out. I mentioned three - having affairs, points-scoring wars of attrition in front of children, friends and family - and trying to get children to side with one parent over another. These behaviours are damaging and shouldn't be condoned in my view. If you think that is 'victim-blaming' I can live with that, but there's no way I can condone children living in those atmospheres and so yes, I blame both parents very much for that and make no apology for it.

SmileyEyez · 11/05/2013 21:50

That is one of my dilemmas, taking my kids away from their father, who has repeatedly been unfaithful,

By leaving my husband and taking the kids with me, I am giving them a life without a real family!

That is why we put up with things that as a single person we would NEVER let any one treat us without respect.

But for the family, we sit quietly on what we know of the other parent .

We put on a smile and keep things going, no one the wiser.

Then we break! ;)

SmileyEyez · 11/05/2013 21:51

I don't want my kids to side, but how do I explained why I have destroyed their family life to a one parent family( no disrespect to one parent families) ;) ;)

Charbon · 11/05/2013 21:58

You see I think this myth about children being 'none the wiser' needs exposing for all it's worth. Just like the one about separated parents not being able to provide a 'real family'.

Children pick up on far more than adults think they do and will often thrive in atmospheres that are suddenly devoid of marital tension. They are also able to adapt to all sorts of family contexts as long as they feel safe, loved and there is calm and peace in their homes.

Darkesteyes · 11/05/2013 22:02

lola i would describe Italian men in the same way you have described Irish ones. i have experience of the Italian patriarchy because i have one Italian parent. Entitled and very mysogynistic culture.

SmileyEyez · 11/05/2013 22:05

I understand that completely Charbon,

But as the parent who has been poo,d on so to speak , I have to ruin my kids lives because of something their dad did,

That's why people tolerate situations in their relationship, their children , dammed if we stay, dammed if we leave!

My kids are my life, I brought them into this world, I chose to bring them into this world.

What ever their dad does should never effect their life, but it does, and that breaks my heart, more than his fathers affairs!

It's boat called DIGNITY!:) night xx

Charbon · 11/05/2013 22:06

The other thing to think about Smiley is that people often say they are staying in unhappy relationships 'because of the children' but that is rarely the whole picture. People stay in relationships because of their own self-interests as well - and that needs to be acknowledged. I agree with what perfect storm said upthread. Some parents put their need for a relationship or the gains they accrue from it before their children's rights to have a safe and peaceful existence. This is a general point by the way and is not directed at your personal circumstances, having seen your thread. It's an observation I've made on several threads though where that sort of selfishness is going unchallenged, but it's an unpopular view sometimes.

SmileyEyez · 11/05/2013 22:11

I agree, just putting another case across.

My kids well fair is more important than my own and separating my kids from their dad isn't something I feel justified to do but something I have to do for myself, hence feeling selfish , but I digress from this thread ;)

Charbon · 11/05/2013 22:11

Cross posted.

Your kids' lives don't have to be 'ruined' if the relationship ends. But the responsibility for their lives being disrupted isn't yours to take. That's their father's domain. I'd really urge you not to take responsibility for your husband's behaviour or your inability to put up with it. Your instincts to get away from this relationship are absolutely sound and no child wants their parents to martyr themselves on their behalf. They'd rather their parents were happy, actually.

SmileyEyez · 11/05/2013 22:24

Thank you I appreciate that, though this thread is about why people tolerate their situations,just wanted to put m side xx

I do think children torn between spending time with their parent seperately is an issue,,,,,,but that's another thread :)

Lweji · 11/05/2013 22:49

Lweji most ex-users I know would and do express dismay that kids are still using drugs.

My point still stands:

"Sadly, each person starts from zero.
Our own experiences count for nothing, and even improvements in society, count for little."

People who express dismay that the younger generation is "still" putting up with X or using Y, understand very little about how growing up works.
What transpires from quite a few posters here, including the OP is that we learnt from experience.
Sadly some have lower standards and self esteem than others, or just happened to have met a clever, devious manipulator.

And I don't think anyone is disputing that those who went through the issues (DV, drugs, whatever) make the best counsellors or advisers.

Lweji · 11/05/2013 22:52

Regarding children, it's curious that people feel that they are the ones who break up the family because of something that their partner did.
So, they stay because they feel responsible for the unity of the family.
When, in fact, it's their partner who has broken (usually) their vows.

lolaflores · 11/05/2013 23:08

Ex drug users make the best counsellers?
Beg to differ
Seen several of them lose their jobs and behave in deeply unprofessional ways that have also led to jeopordy for their clients.
Not a given.
Ever

TheRealFellatio · 12/05/2013 07:30

Apologies Ledkr I missed your post explaining about the hair pulling and threats. However, my point still stands - he was behaving in a way that was unacceptable; certainly emotionally abusive and bordering on becoming physically abusive, and he clearly enjoyed making you frightened. And yet...you had a second child with him.

I don't have a bee in my bonnet at all - I've only made a couple of short posts on this thread. I realise that with the benefit of 27 years worth of hindsight you can are able to speak as a woman who takes no shit now, but you've had to go through a lot to arrive at this point. And being attacked and raped will kind of polarise your position pretty clearly I imagine.

Clearly there was a here was a point where you were not that strong woman. The point were you didn't walk out with your DS1 under your arm the very first time his father pulled your hair and threatened you.

For other women, the level of ill-treatment may be very minor in comparison, and as someone else pointed out, the fear of being alone is a very big deal. Most women are not prepared to walk out on a home and a marriage and all that that represents for them, because their H is crap at helping with the washing up, or makes unpleasant jibes about the size of their thighs, or had a one night stand once. They may hate it, but they look at everything in the round and they choose not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. And that is their prerogative, all the while they are not in fear of their lives or their sanity.

I thought your OP did come across as a little smug to be honest. You've found a relationship where you feel like a true equal, and that's great, but if your ex hadn't half killed you and forced you to leave for fear of your life, then perhaps you'd still be with him, and still be forever that vulnerable 16 year old in your head, putting up with the threats and the hairpulling as an occasional way of life, because, you know - 'it's just the way he is sometimes, but mostly he is lovely, and he's a great dad.' and all that other stuff we hear all the time on here.

We all have to decide what we will and and will not tolerate and how much is too much, in our own time and in our own way. Personally if I had a man who was fabulous in every possible way except that he refused to do any housework whatsoever, then sure, I might grumble on MN about it from time to time, but I'd not be in any hurry to get him out of my life. In the grand scheme of things I think I'd be prepared to tolerate it.

I think sometimes when people have been through serious, serious shit with men they become so evangelical about standing up for themselves that they lose the plot a little bit about how other people manage to tick along nicely with flawed, annoying, but basically decent, and good enough partners, rather than risk being alone.

BigBlockSingsong · 12/05/2013 08:10

Charbon makes a great point, some people enjoy the drama forgetting children are absorbing their environment like a sponge.

One of my relatives works with CP cases and the mothers often find after leaving/recovery etc is that the children are angry at them for not protecting them as well as the abuser.

The comment about one parent making themselves out as the 'victim' and bring you into it to reinforce how badly done to they are, both of mine do this.its headdoing' I'm quite intolerant now, I just think;

you chose to marry,
you chose to have kids,
you chose to mistreat,
you chose to argue in front of the kids,
you chose to whinge but do nothing about,
you chose to keep/stay
you then chose to leave....you are not a victim, the children are victims.