Does anyone else feel dismayed by what some people will tolerate in their relationships?

[Ledkr]

Thread about many threads but I sometimes worry that I'm just am old battle axe because when I read some if the stuff on here I'm just shocked at what some people put up with.
I can go early say that if dh went on a dating website, called me names, left me short of money or refused to help with his house or children he'd be out if my life.
Not being smug at all I was in a very subdivide relationship and my exh cheated but both times I got rid.
I'm in my forties so am sad to think that some young women are being raised to tolerate this. Shouldn't it be different now that its easier to go it alone?
Such a pity.

I think it depends on how unhappy the 'abuse' makes you. I discovered that my H was on dating/affair websites, I tried to live with it for a few years but then decided to separate around 18 months ago.
Today, I've never been more miserable, unhappy or lonely, I was married for along time, I still miss him dreadfully, I cry nearly every morning when I wake up alone. I hate it.
I've tried everything, internet dating, social groups, evening classes. I have counselling and been prescribed anti depressants.
I'd rather be back where I was.

Oh Running, I just want to give you a hug. Is it just that you feel lonely rather than missing him? Don't you feel glad that you don't have to worry about what he's up to?

I'm sorry you feel like that RunningWSS. I would rather be alone than with anybody who was behaving like that.

OP, I feel like I am possibly too intolerant but I am bitter that I wasted years in a toxic relationship. The older, wiser me would get out when she realised things weren't going to change for the better. Now I have a lovely DH who would never deliberately do anything unsupportive of me so I know it's possible to escape the EA and move onto something great. That's what makes me think LTB.

It's both. I'm dreadfully lonely. I miss his companionship and his kindness, yes he was kind to me, despite what he was doing. There's just no-one there to talk stuff over with, no-one there to share something great you've seen, no-one to show your new clothes to, no-one there to give you a hug when you feel down. I feel like half a person.
I rarely come on here, because it seems full of people who think it's ridiculous that there are people who just 'need' a partner, people who are really miserable living by themselves. I think there's always some degree of compromise in a relationship and the level of compromise is a personal thing.

I realise that there are things that just shouldn't be tolerated (DV for instance), but apart from that, instead of shouting LTB I would urge people to think more than twice before taking that step. I would argue that there's no such thing as a 'perfect relationship'.

Here's shameful. my eldest dd (19) heading blindly into a horrific relationship with a "boy" also 19 who when she fell pregnant last year, hot footed it on a skiing holiday (while her friend went with her for termination) also donated her a touch of clymidia, slept with soemone else on the holiday, verbally abused her, gossiped and badmouthed her all over uni.
They are back together.
She loves hime.
He said he was sorry and bought her a handbag.
I don't understand. He has changed.
God fucking help us all, what can I do? I want to break his legs or just get 5 mins in aroom with him and a big stick.
But she loves him. She is happy. Her friends hate him especially those that stood by her when he went AWOL.

Running what is he up to now? Do you have good friends that can do all these things, i.e. chat, show stuff off to?

What about family? I do a lot of that with my mum, aunties, sisters and cousins.

lolaflores I'm sorry your DD is going through that, what a wanker he is! It's so hard. Looking back, my mum has always been right about every guy I've ever been with, good or bad. I'm 24 and I've only just realised this!

But unfortunately they come back with there take In between there legs full of bullshit excuses. I heard them all from XP......my dad walked out when I was two, my mum is an alcoholic, my ex cheated on me, it's the way you are that makes me like this, I'm tired, if you were thinner, if you didn't have your DS I wouldn't be like this, it's your friends they wind me up, I'm just young that's why I'm like this, your boring, your too confident people think your a lesbian tone it down a bit it embarrasses me, your not girly enough.....blah blah blah

I now know that if they have to make excuses for there behaviour they aren't worth having around.

Print this thread out and show your daughter!

Lola, you poor things - both of you. I suspect all you can do is be there for her and gently point out that she shouldn't have to put up with such behaviour. Ultimately, she will only learn by her own mistakes though. I dread that kind of situation when my DDs grow up.

lolaf :( but you say she is happy - she may be unhappy in the future, but at least she is happy now

CC he has a 'friend', he says they're not an item. I rarely see him, but I saw him a few days ago for coffee and a chat. I have a few good friends, but they are all married and busy with their families. I'm trying to make new friends, hence the social group etc., but it's just not the same as a partner.

I've just run out of things to try, the weekends are often just a big long empty space to get through til Monday morning.

Sorry to be so negative, I'd better sign off

player that is a spot on idea. If she won't listen to me, then perhaps the massed voices of The Sisterhood" can get her hearing sorted out.

Running, I think most of us here do enjoy having that companionship.
The point is that if we need that relationship to be happy, we may easily head into a bad relationship because we fear the loneliness.
Some people need other people around more than others.
I don't constantly need people, but I still like to have someone to share my life with. It's normal.

Have you had counselling?
It feels like you may still be hanged up on your ex, perhaps comparing other men with him, or afraid of getting hurt again?

Running what do you actually enjoy doing? Don't sign off!

I think things I've learnt relatively recently is that you have to be prepared to live without anyone, as you don't know what's going to happen in life, and you have to maintain your independence and keep yourself busy.

I had quite a few close people die and spent YEARS in an unhealthy relationship, to my shame. I'm really looking forward to rebuilding my independence (though I'm slightly cynical about love at present).

Things can get better!

running all the above is true.

lola it took my auntie pulling me to one side and saying, ' the only times your uncle has ever made me cry is when he proposed and when we got married. We argue, but it's a two way street, we are both still respectful. He has never called me a name or raised his voice to me, that's how men behave'

Then I got it.

Who the hell is this guy to tell me how to be? If he doesn't like me for me, he can move on and find someone he does like! What makes him so perfect anyway???

My mum had been telling me similar for years, but I was like yeah yeah you don't understand mum, it's passion, your boring

What a twat I was!!

Something I don't think is acknowledged enough on Mumsnet and also the Emotional Abuse threads is when the victim turns abuser and so a couple are emotionally abusing eachother because neither has the courage to end the relationship. It's not uncommon for people who've suffered from emotional abuse to start affairs (often with married people who are in turn abusing their own spouses) to make life more bearable, to engage their children in supporting their 'victim' status or to get into a points-scoring war with the abusive partner. This is hellish for children and the couple's wider circle who are unwittingly drawn into the toxicity and crossfire of a couple who are co-dependent and mutually abusive.

I wish more posters would have the courage to challenge that behaviour instead of supporting it. Support groups/threads for people in damaging situations always have the potential for that fatal flaw though - any challenge is regarded as being 'unsupportive' and it's sometimes perceived as a threat to people who don't really want change but get some comfort from the sympathy. And as long as there is security in numbers and other people are in the same boat, there's a level of comfort with that. It can be quite frightening and challenging if one of them breaks for freedom, or starts examining her own behaviour and takes responsibility for it.

That's not to say that support groups and threads don't serve a very useful purpose and they can be a marvellous resource for people who feel isolated and quite alone. But sometimes there is more value in hearing from people who aren't putting up with bad behaviour, those who did but saw the light and there also needs to be recognition that support comes in many forms and not just a 'there, there, none of this is your fault' type of response, especially when people are now behaving extremely badly themselves.

Charbon, yes, I'd agree with that.

One of the things I struggle with is how many people in long term, established relationships with children have completely separate finances. I don't understand this at all although I do understand having separate bank accounts for that feeling of independence for both people but it should still all be from the same pot.

Running it's best to go no contact as much as possible when you leave - you are still keeping the wound open by seeing him again. Find some hobbies, exercise etc., that you like doing and use this time for getting to know/enjoying yourself.

You are used to being in a long running marriage so it feels very unfamiliar and strange to be on your own but you will adjust in time and have the potential to meet a much better partner. Really, your XH being on dating sites - so disrespectful - and you were putting up with it rather than being alone - and he knows it. He is not your friend.

Player thank you. your auntie sounds like a good un.

Charbon it is so complicated isn't it. The grey areas. How things spill over.

A friend went back to an abusive partner. She had got out, got herself into a place with her DS, but somehow, somehow...nothing has changed. BUT, I think, she wanted another child (she is in her mid 40's) now and is prepared to put up with his shit so that she can achieve that. That is how it looks to me. I might be wrong, but why would you stay when you KNOW totally that it is unhealthy and that both boys you are raising are starting to act out like their dad. They both now hit her.

By the way, can I add that boys and self esteem as well as girls should be looked at.

lola the boys now hit her...? Actually I was wondering about what you said about men earlier, if they don't have role models to emulate and have made mistakes then where would they go to/how would they improve their behaviour and decisions?

I agree that you just don't realise. My parents were violent and emotionally abusive so when the same things happened with ex H I just felt that this was how relationships are. Combined with the constant message that relationships are Hard Work and you have to keep on trying.

I posted on here about him back in 2007. I told of a really small incident (I thought) where ex H and I were arguing at a low level while carrying ds in his buggy down the stairs at a train station. Ex H at the top end began barging forward, essentially pushing me down the stairs with the buggy. I also said he would deliberately stand in my way when I was coming in with heavy loads or shopping eg bending down to talk to ds in his buggy for ages but it felt deliberate iyswim? He would be positioned so I couldn't get past and I would be stood there not able to move. If I complained WW3 would kick off and he would look at me in disgust and say "I am talking to my son! Who are you to stop me?"

Someone actually said "this is abusive" on the thread. I did not know that I really didn't. And of course as I carried on posting more stuff came out. The withholding money, the refusal to do any Childcare or domestic work in the house, ever. He was violent and unfaithful to but that came later when I started to stand up to him.

People just don't KNOW they are being abused. They are so used to it. Mumsnet taught me. I was clueless till I came on here. Now I am an expert. I see it so often. I think I will be single forever though. Just can't be arsed trying to have relationships. Just too many out there like that.

With you Cabrinha - I was brought up in a family where non-confrontation was highly prized, alongside being sensible, logical, calm, rational etc.

I also thought I would get the prize for dealing with my marriage problems in a calm, rational, textbook manner. And that my commitment, dedication and determination would mend us. Hmmm.

Giving up career is dangerous, in retrospect. And I wonder if we neglect the way some men see it as well. Once you give up work it's as if they think you've changed into a servant. A proper humble one at that.

Not only does dropping the job give us no financial independence and no escape route when bad things happen, but I totaly underestimated what it meant for him. I think my STBXH saw it as a green light to assert control. He started trying to dominate me and saw nothing wrong in it. It was as if I could suddenly be overruled and countermanded and I couldn't understand where this was coming from. And then when I indignantly tried to point out his huge double standards using logic, reasoned argument etc etc... OMG he would just hit the roof. And so began my journey to being terrified of the man I loved...

My mum was a housewife. So despite my parents' marriage ending in divorce a long time after I left home, I still saw financial dependence (for a while with young children, I wanted to go back to career) as ok because of course I trusted my STBXH. So I gave up a demanding, rewarding, competitive job with people I really liked because I wanted babies... and trusted that all was equal. I never doubted my 'equalness'. I never saw the idea of him earning money and me looking after the babies as equivalent to me taking a subordinate role and giving up my right to an opinion. Trouble is, he DID.

Unfortunately STBXH seemed to have no recognition of my equalness at all. Therein lies the problem.

Charbon what you are saying amounts to victim blaming.
Abuse has nothing to do with bad behaviour; it is about entitlement and control.
Violence is only one of form of abuse.
If violence is used, it is used with the single aim of control,
but all abuse is just horses for courses to abusers - they will use whatever works to reduce their partner and children to objects they own and, therefore, can use and abuse.
Abusers are never wrong and never responsible or accountable.
I say this after 30 years in abusive relationship.
I would pass your test because I never raised my voice or behaved in any way that could have been considered abusive; I was too busy crouching in a pathetic heap - and no, that was not any better for the children than throwing objects; it was just another distorted, reduced vision of life, which is what you are reduced to if you live with an abuser.
However oddly and wrongly we behave in an abusive relationship, if our main object is not the reduction and annihilation of the other person's very being, which we feel we are entitled to carry out, we are not abusers

arthritic I think she was talking about when mutually unhealthy relationships develop, which is what happened to me. In response to aggression/gaslighting I became a nastier person.

It's not the same as your situation where he terrified you, I'm sorry to hear that. How are you doing now?