Does anyone else feel dismayed by what some people will tolerate in their relationships?

[Ledkr]

Thread about many threads but I sometimes worry that I'm just am old battle axe because when I read some if the stuff on here I'm just shocked at what some people put up with.
I can go early say that if dh went on a dating website, called me names, left me short of money or refused to help with his house or children he'd be out if my life.
Not being smug at all I was in a very subdivide relationship and my exh cheated but both times I got rid.
I'm in my forties so am sad to think that some young women are being raised to tolerate this. Shouldn't it be different now that its easier to go it alone?
Such a pity.

I still stand by what I say - abuse is qualitatively different from bad behaviour.
If you did not consciously choose to behave in a way that reduced your partner's humanity, you might have behaved badly, but the very fact that you recognize your behavior, disapprove of it and take full responsibility means that you are not abusive. Abusers do none of those things.

I'm not decided as yet about what I think on abuse as distinctive from bad behaviour - and I did get into a state of terror last year for a few months, and I look back now and think 'why? WHY?!'

If you're mistreated it DOES have a psychological effect which might be hard for outsiders to understand, because from the outside it seems so logical.

But I'd still like to just work on my own behaviour because that's all I can do, I'm pretty sure he won't :)

It would be nice to hear how you're getting on as well.

I agree OP. I'm also shocked by just how badly a lot of men seem to behave - I'd never dream of going out with someone with the behavioural traits described.

But I cannot help noticing, both on here and in real life, that so many women don't earn their money. Surely they don't stay with awful men because they don't want to get a job and work for a living? Or is it that men like this deliberately seek out women prepared to give up the opportunity to be independent? Chicken or egg?

LessMissAbs how do you think men's behaviour might improve? Do you think it is just down to women's tolerance? (Which might suggest something innate about women/men behaviour, like Dawkin suggesting that sex gametes developed differently because females behaved too honorably.)

currently Don't know how I am, but you can find us here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1747835-Support-thread-for-those-in-emotionally-abusive-relationships-coming-of-age-21
lessmiss you could check out the blog at the top of the relationships page

Poppy a friend and I had a conversation about "entrusting" your OH with what you have sacraficed, that they understand how things have changed and how easy it would be for them to "turn on you". Once you are in the position of the at home person.....then you are less powerful. The handle on the door is alot higher to reach. You are infantalized in a way. The rules change.
I cchanged my life once leaving an abusive relationship. Went back to uni, clawed my way back up. Met my now DH. He realises what I have WILLINGLY forgone to stay home with OUR daughter. Doesn't mean he wonm't try his luck with a bit of "who pays the mortgage". but so far he has tried it only once. But, tis like a dog that bites, once they get the taste for blood. Hard habit to break. For them. Not for me to keep my eyes open

currentlyconfused LessMissAbs how do you think men's behaviour might improve? Do you think it is just down to women's tolerance? (Which might suggest something innate about women/men behaviour, like Dawkin suggesting that sex gametes developed differently because females behaved too honourably

That's really beyond me to suggest. I do think so many women prepared to put up with it, run around after such men, chasing them in the first place, and pandering to their every whim has something to do with it. But I suspect its more to do with the way they are brought up in the first place.

I didn't grow up in the UK, and I do find a lot of the men here to be shockingly badly behaved. I cannot believe the abusive, sexist comments some of the more educated ones come out with, or some of the things they do. Or on a different note, some of the comments made about politics and the total intolerance of opposing, but mainstream, political views. But I do also notice that a lot of women seem to dream about being a SAHM and, like it or not, making yourself financially dependent on someone from a very young age takes away many of your choices.

I'm in Scotland.

Hmm....well to myself perhaps! Thing is when you are in the thick of it it often creeps up slowly and things get normalised. Looking back you can get a WTF moment. A friend of mine and myself both went through extraordinarily weird situations with romance stuff last year.

We spoke the other night and were both howling with laughter about the outrageous things these guys did..it was sort of a gallows humour but we were killing ourselves laughing. I guess mixed up with that was the dismay we had tolerated so much..but thats the rub..sometimes you just don't see the wood for the trees when you are in the thick of it.

So no..I dont feel dismayed because I understand how complex these situations can become (or appear, they are usually actually fairly simple when it comes down to it, but our minds refuse to see it as it is).

Which might suggest something innate about women/men behaviour, like Dawkin suggesting that sex gametes developed differently because females behaved too honourably

Or possibly because the Y chromosome contains so little genetic information yet men are more likely to inherit genetic diseases?! Actually, I think its more to do with upbringing, ingrained over the generations.

Oh, my exdp (father of my eldest) is Spanish. Where family is everything and so on. Respect your mother, etc. Don't look at my sister like that yada yada yada. A housewife is called "ama de casa" soul of the house.
TIll you decide you want to threaten her with a knife, cheat, run away and disappear for 9 years and not pay a penny in costs for your child whom you love soooo much.
Not a problem once the door is closed.
Male attitudes are universal. An absolute given. Maybe men here are just a bit more upfront about their appalling views.
Not sure which is better.
Don;t get me started on Irish men....ffs

Society has changed only at a surface level. Why would men willingly give up their status as top of the heap? Why? In evolutionary terms it would be an act of total madness. They are free to move about, procreate, shag, earn money, bascially run fucking rings round the other half of the population. Why should they change?

Abuse is often insidious and it usually happens when women are at their most vulnerable.

This. Isn't about half of all physical abuse initiated during pregnancy? And nobody can believe that their seemingly loving partner is capable of it, so they accept the excuses the first time and hope it's a one-off. Which makes it far harder to leave thereafter. It's not as simple as someone walking after infidelity the first time it happens, which is (relatively) clearcut. Staying is a gamble, but one that can pay off if the marriage recovers. But if the partner is a serial philanderer the person is on a downward spiral and leaving gets harder all the time, as self respect plummets. I also think it's easy to underestimate how effective gaslighting is. Nobody spends their life suspicious of the person they love lying to them, undermining them and manipulating them, so a decent and normal person will question their own reality rather than think the other side capable of such brutal selfishness. Cognitive dissonence is soul destroying, but it's also entirely understandable.

The threads I find it hard to summon up an ounce of understanding over are the abusive step-parent ones. I understand how people can value themselves so little after a frog-in-the-bathtub incline, but their kids? How the hell can anyone enter a relationship and allow their kids to be treated like filth by anyone? Low self-esteem may mean you don't know you're worth more, but you sure as hell should know your children are. I'm afraid I see people who stay when the kids are the ones on the receiving end as selfish. They want a relationship more than they value their children's entire future life chances and happiness, and I can't fathom that.

I agree with everything you say lola. Please do tell about Irish Men . I have always found their attitudes um interesting. I, myself find Welshmen extremely defensive of their role as Head Of The Family which actually means, I come first and screw everyone else. Disclaimer in KNOW not all Welshmen are like this but I do find the gender divide very strenuous in all those I have known.

Watched The Policitans Husband the other night. He raped her out of rage at his helplessness and yet....she stayed. An intelligent woman with a career who got back into bed with a man who raped her, despite him being an intelligent man who said he supported her career. What the fuck was that about? was it about both of them or just her. I canot for the life of me work it out

Irish men marry virgins, idolise their mothers but will shag anything with a heart beat. IF you cannot levitate directly to heaven or conceive in an immaculate fashion, you are a whore. End Of.

Heads up here people. I am now officially half way down a bottle of wine. The last drink I took was in September....it is going to get bumpy

LessMissAbs, not sure - but I do think that the ultimate goal has to be care of the children, if they are involved, and self independence. Or self dependence. Or maybe self independence is a daft oxymoron confuses self

Forums like this one are good for encouraging women to take control again.

lola you are on a roll :)

currently chin chin my love. do join in if you feel the urge.

I did indeed make it clear that I was not abused physically in any way apart from hair pulling and threats before I was 6 months pg.
Even so why can a victim if previous mistreatment not be dismayed to see women still tolerating it 27 yrs later? I made no judgment I merely said it made me sad to see no changes.
I'm not sure what your beef is with me to be honest.
I am training to be an IDVA and most of my fellow trainees have at some point suffered dv, should they not be doing their job either?
Many people have horrific experiences in life it doesn't render them unable to be sorry when others do too.

Lola you are so spot on about Irish men I may steal that.

Ledkr if that was me (? sorry not sure) I didn't mean to judge or be angry with you at all, sorry if I posted ineptly on that front. I was more trying to stress that I absolutely understand the DA situation, but women who enter relationships after having kids, and allow those kids to be abused (emotionally or otherwise) most especially when they aren't themselves - those people upset me. And that I cannot understand at all.

I agree it's heartbreaking and frustrating to see how much people will tolerate. I wish there were an easier answer. Support is obviously a large part of an answer but sadly in many cases I don't think people are aware how awful things are, or how different to the norm, and that's a core problem in and of itself as several comments illustrate.

freddie feel free. None of my material is my own. However, in this case, it is. Fucking arsehole Irishmen. I am qualified to say that as I am Irish and have witnessed it real close up.
They are in a leaghe of their own.
That is irish for league of course. As gaelige

In teenagers - early 20's disrespect to women is worn as a badge of honour in my experience. Porn is so widely available, being watched by age 11+. It's shows women as some sort of sub class only there for men's pleasure, and it seems to make them think that is how women should behave in a normal relationship. It's shocking how degrading some porn young boys are watching is. Obviously the majority of men turn out ok, but I've seen a few get so obsessed with it they can't have normal loving sexual relationships, they think they know what women want as they've seen women scream in ecstasy on a porn film doing xyz so if you don't like xyz there is something wrong with you iykwim. It's frightening.

Sorry if this makes no sense/not explained properly typing out quickly at work!

I have made it clear to mine that porn is the same as any other film they watch - made up and not real.

But because so many parents are afraid of how much porn is around today and don't want to tackle it, it becomes a taboo subject.

Mind you, I am known for my bluntness. the night I accidentally did a "periods and other things you should know" talk to the school First XV rugby team was apparently a "classic"