Financial abuse or luxury?

[hopingforinsight]

N/c as some posters know my RL identity.

Before we had DC, DH and I both had well paid professional jobs, at about the same level. However, I have now been a sahm for many years whilst DH has significantly progressed his career. My earning power is currently negligible relative to his.

Fast forward to now: DH likes to know what I spend, so I pay for everything on a credit card for which DH has the password so he can view the transactions. He keeps a real time spreadsheet of my expenditure split into categories which he looks at most days. There is no way for me to spend without it appearing on the spreadsheet (other than cash, and DH doesn't like me to get out cash).

My credit card bill consists mainly of family expenditure: food, insurance, car costs, DC clothes, holidays, vet bills etc The annual total is in the tens of thousands but it is well within our budget, and has still enabled us to make significant savings for retirement. I generally feel too guilty to spend money directly on myself but that is probably my own perception rather than imposed by DH who often buys me generous presents - he likes to choose my clothes and my jewellery.

DH also has a credit card, the monthly spend coming out of the joint account. I have no way of telling how much of that is business expenditure and how much is personal - it could be 100% business or it could be 100% personal. It does not appear on the spreadsheet. I feel it is up to him what he does with the money he has earned so that doesn't bother me.

Anyway, should I feel uncomfortable that DH has such a close monitoring of my spend, which I find a little infantalising, or is it reasonable of him to want to know where the money is going?

In short, I have no financial privacy, but I'm not sure why I want it.

A friend of mine tells me this is financial abuse .... even though DH has NEVER criticised me for overspending, or attempted to limit the amount.

BTW my DH works such long hours that I hardly see him and we live pretty separate lives so I do feel like a paid housekeeper sometimes and maybe that is the heart of my problem....... (the spreadsheet makes me feel like an employee providing receipts tbh).

Sorry about the long post; to refocus, my question is whether I should be insisting on financial privacy or not? Is this accountability reasonable and normal, or is it a strange way to live? Or am I simply jolly lucky?

"he keeps the passwords to our savings accounts online " so if he dies of a heart attack tomorrow /gets run over /etc what will you do ?

(let alone if he leaves you etc)

OP, do you want to stay with this man?

im really surprised you just thought all of this was normal till you mentioned it to your friend.

If my dp decided he wanted me to be a kept woman and did all the things you say, id probably quite enjoy it for a while. Sounds quite cosy, but then chains are only a problem if you want to be free.

If youve always been happy with the way things are, then dont split up just because people on a forum think you shouldnt be happy

I think buying the computer will be a good way to test his reactions.

Get an ipad or similar and keep it in your handbag. That way you don't have to hide or password it - it is yours and you don't have it on display. Do you have wills? Could you make an excuse to see a solicitor together about wills and so have everything disclosed to them? If things do go wrong you would have evidence.

What about his family?

FWIW we have one account (shared) and two separate credit cards. My DH, anal accountant type, wants the total for my card but never questions the actual purchases or sees the bills.

Also, with expensive things in the house, what about a spot of secret e baying to build up funds? You can get a PayPal account and now get one with a debit card. That might give you a cushion, if ever needed.

Ldt87, she can't add cashback on to the shopping on a credit card, I don't think, only on a debit card. That is no mistake on the part of her dh as she can't put anything aside for herself.

I feel for you, op, you sound like a prisoner. Your 'd'h is effectively making you produce receipts for his approval. You can't really go anywhere or buy anything without him being able to track this. He's undermining you self belief by telling you that he (his taste in clothes) is better. Your situation is not normal.

You have said that the socialising he does is unusual in his line of work and I would question whether / why he's doing it then. You only have his word for what he's doing and he isn't treating you with much respect. I think that you should keep an open mind as to why he's out so much.

I have only read the OPs posts and i just want to get this man away from you. NO ONE should control you.

My parents have completely seperate finances. Seperate bank accounts, no idea how much each has in theirs etc. My mum is a typical stay at home mum who gets 'house keeping money' from my dad. She can spend this money on whatever she wants. He doesnt ask her what she has spent the money on, he doesnt buy her clothes, he doesnt comment on her taste of things. As long as she pays the bills and buys the food my mum can use the rest of the money for whatever she wants and my dad doesnt bat an eyelid even though it is technically his money.

OP i think u need to start getting yourself more freedom. A computer is a good start.

He is being completely unreasonable. Just to put things in context, so you can see how unreasonable your DH is being...

My DH runs his own business and I work in a supporting role, in that I don't have an "outside" job, I work from home helping run the business as well as doing all the "domestic" housewifey stuff.

I have access to the business accounts, DH's accounts, our joint accounts and also have my own private accounts. I don't justify any expenditure on myself, take cash out when I want it (from all the accounts) and do pretty much as I please. DH & I discuss "big" expenditure before it happens, but not as a control thing, it's done for budgeting purposes and if I really want it and we can afford it, we get it.

Today I went out shopping (for essentials - groceries and a massive Pet food shop) but DH couldn't for the life of him tell anyone what I'd spent or where. Hell, half the time he doesn't even know IF I've spent money. He just assumes that if we don't have it, I don't spend it.

We sit down and discuss budgets weekly and manage the accounts together, but there is certainly no micro-management and control from DH, in the way yours does with you.

And in a MILLION Years my DH wouldn't buy me clothes to wear or critique what I was wearing. He'll tell me if he likes something I'm wearing, but he wouldn't dream of managing my wardrobe.

I would go as far as to say that your DH is emotionally and financially abusive. It seems you are his play thing, rather than his wife.

Wow, do men like this really exist. I am a sahm with a dh that earns good money. He too keeps spreadsheets for expenditure. Too be honest I am not remotely interested in them so have no idea if his own spends are accounted for but I would expect knowing him that it includes everything. I have my own bank account which he pays money into when it runs low and I use this for coffees, lunches taking the kids out etc. Everything else I put on my credit card. The card is in my name and I buy whatever I like. He pays the bill in full every month. He will occasionally ask me what items are on the credit card statement but more out of interest than anything else. He knows that if we couldnt afford it I wouldnt buy it. I would be more worried about the way he controls the way you dress. Have you ever said that you dont like something that he has bought you or do you just wear something even if you dont really like it.

OP, I am genuinely concerned by you standing up for him, and saying things like: I'm not a great housewife, I'm not a martyr. As though you only deserve our sympathy or concern if every inch of your home gleamed and you served him like a Stepford wife.

No. you are his equal and a human being. If he doesn't want you to have a computer with your own password ask why he needs one.

And really - look for a part time job. nothing too strenuous but which will bring you some money to call your own and some independence. you will be amazed at how much better you feel.

It o=is surely not up to your husband unilaterally to decide whether or not it suits him for you to have a job. If being a SAHM and living on his terms doesn't suit you, then as an adult in a liberal society, you have the right and power to change your circumstances and to challenge him on his reactions. I had some really strongly worded heart to hearts with DH. He was shocked to learn how very close I came to leaving him when DS2 was only 18 months old.

Because his life suits him, your DH is probably unaware how like a caged pet you feel. Be very very direct in your explanations and give him precise examples. Ask him repeatedly how he would feel if his own life were similarly governed by another person who told him what to wear, what to spend, analysed his every move and had access to all his online material and financial details. Explain you don't have his and he has questioned your need for them. You respect his need for some privacy and you want yours too.

If he won't give it, for goodness sake, him him a big hefty shove to sort himself out, and get yourself organised to earn as much as you can with your excellent previous track record. What are your skills? Can you use them in a freelance capacity, tutoring capacity, transfer them to a different industry?

Make a list of changes you really need in your life. If you'd rather work as a TA two days a week and use the money to get someone else to clean - do that.

But start by buying yourself that computer and password protecting it.

Does he think he is above you somehow? Negates the fact that you actually look after the children?

I'm astounded that you put up with this.

It is wrong, beyond wrong.

My DP knows exactly what I spend on the household and, frankly, I find that comforting! I spend a lot and I could easily spend a lot more if his watchful eye wasn't there curtailing me. Why do you care that he knows what you spend?

On the other hand, my DP has no clue what my capital is worth and how I manage it and that is fine with me too!

OP - You have a controlling husband love.

I didn't know people used spreadsheets for family finances until I came on here. And he checks them all the time??????

I agree with the poster up thread that said this situation reminds her of the film Sleeping with the Enemy.

He is an abusive arse love. Time to leave love.

I am out the other side. In my crumbling guilded cage unable to keep up with the breathtaking cleverness that my STBEXH has used to hide his assests away. I trusted my STBEXH and the DC are paying the price for my naiveity now. Whilst I am not saying your world will implode, it could.

You may not wish to start rocking the boat, but I would find some way to ensure you build up a fund of money for yourself. Where does your child benefit money go?

It may all end well, but something has nagged at you, so you have posted on here. I would suggest getting savvy.

OMG, this is scarily controlling. Many sahp's control the finances especially if the working partner is often away or works long hours.
OP you can't let this continue. Why haven't you asked him to show you/ give passwords to his accounts.

I am a sahm. But all money goes into a joint account. So in theory DH could see how much money I was withdrawing and items on the card and equally I could see what he spends. But in practice we don't check, beyond making sure we're living with in our means and that there's been no fraudulent activity on oru account/ I'd certainly discuss a big expenditure with him and he with me, but normal cash for clothes, nights out etc. is not discussed. I'm planning on going back to work soon, but the way our finances are managed wil not change.

You say your DH works long hours and you have little time together, but he has time to go through your expenditure most days? And I find it nasty that he criticises your choice of clothes. What would he say if you criticised the clothes he buys you?

OP, you sound so lonely, downtrodden and completely lacking in self-worth.

You feel uncomfortable because you have reason to! Can I ask how old your DC are? What must they think of mum being treated like this?

I also think you should sort an exit plan - just as your insurance policy. And start getting cash back with all shopping, where poss. Get stuff sold on eBay and find yourself again.

It is not HIS MONEY, it is family money. He would not be free to earn this money if you were not at home running the house, kids, etc. Everything should be transparent. He is controlling and abusive.

Give him an ultimatum, either all money is shared and everything is transparent, or you go back to work and he pays for a cleaner, housekeeper, childminder, etc, etc.

I could not live like this, no matter what.

I can't see how keeping a spreadsheet detailing expenditure is controlling, in the absence of other controlling behaviour. Perhaps he is just someone who likes to budget well and keep track of things.

Change your own passwords if it bothers you. If you feel guilty spending the money he earns, get a paying job. Retrain if necessary. Perhaps even take over the control of the spreadsheet. You are being very passive and letting this happen.

I don't think you are "jolly lucky" - its a limited way to live your life and you are missing out on so much. Its also putting all your eggs in one basket. I would only do it if I had a private income (eg money from property/trust fund/inheritance).

I cannot imagine this scenario - it is utterly infantilising and demoralising and YUCK YUCK YUCK

My last post was unhelpful - sorry - but I was genuinely shocked.

In the scenario you describe, your DH has complete financial freedom, he can buy what he wants and you cannot know about it. He could in fact have a mistress tucked away in a mansion block - not that I am suggesting he has - but he has the freedom and autonomy to do precisely as he likes

You cannot buy a pair of flip-flops without him knowing about it.

You have to see that this situation is entirely inequitable.

Are you allowed to have savings in your own name? Or are they only notionally in your name because they appear in the spreadsheet.

Hmmm, I'm conflicted. Our situation is slightly the reverse, in that I'm the one earning most of the money at the moment as DH has been out of work for 8 months (he's just started working again, but is earning half what I do and what he used to).

I control all the finances, all of which are joint. I ask DH not to spend cash because I like to see where the money's going so I can work out how much we've spent on luxuries, or food or clothes etc. I do check the bank balance every single day...but this is because I've been the only one working and if I don't keep a hold on it it could spiral out of control.

I haven't placed any restrictions on what DH can and can't spend (neither has your DH on you by the sounds of it) and most purchases are a joint decision - he needed a new pair of trainers, asked if that was ok, I said sure fine.

I guess thinking about it he asks permission from me more than I ask it from him.... does this make me controlling? I don't necessarily think so as we are both happy with the arrangement - he doesn't pay any attention to the finances - never has done, just is happy that I make the books balance.

My DH likes to buy my clothes - I don't see that as negative, but I'm happy to purcahse my own too! He'll pass comment on whether he thinks somethings nice or not, and if he hates something I'll usually take it back - I'm not going to wear something my DH doesn't like me in!

I think the main problem is that you don't feel equal and you don't feel like your earning your share - if your DH doesn't have an issue with what you spend your money on I think it's something you've got an issue with rather than him.

Ok, I've just read your last post (must have missed it somewhere) so would like to add to my comment!

Does your DH make you feel unequal? Does he place any restrictions on what you spend? Do you feel like he controls you?

You said you can't work because he said it can't effect him. If he's earning well, why can't you get help? Get a cleaner, a gardener and arrange childcare? Then you could get back to work and get some independence back.

I think it's a bit of a crock that you can't have access to his records as well - to be equal you need to be able to have full disclosure of what he's spending his money on.

I'm just torn, I'm not ready to jump on the bandwagon that he's a controlling bastard and you should leave him, because only you know that. I just see a lot of what you are saying in my own relationship, but in reverse. But we are totally open about everything, no passwords, no secrets, phones, computers, ipads are all open to view if the other choses, I've no reason to hide anything from him and him from me.

Are you happy? Do you love each other? Is this the only issue? Can you have a conversation and work this out?

Happygolucky, if your DH said to you that he felt controlled by the financial arrangement, and how about the two of you agreed a 'luxuries' budget whereby he could have a set amount of cash per week, would you feel alright with that?

If he wanted to see your CC statement, would you feel okay with that?

If he wanted a passworded section on his computer, would you feel okay with that?

It's the adding up of all the things, here. This DH chooses basically all of the OP's clothing, and if she 'rebels' and buys something for herself he criticises it till she takes it back. He controls all of her money, including holding her passwords to HER accounts, and yet would "get very cross" if she asked to see his. It's the fact that she doesn't feel like she can ever make a purchase or a decision, even if she knows full well that it's easily within the grasp of their finances. That's different from what you're describing. He DOES have an issue with what she spends. He tells her that her taste is bad. He tells her that she doesn't need her own computer. He tells her that she is not allowed cash even though the couple can well afford a 'slush' fund.

I'm also intrigued that Stoic is the only one who has picked up on something else.

This DH keeps his own CC completely private. On it, the OP says, are bills for plenty of drinks and meals, although his job isn't one that generally requires a lot of entertaining. He works extremely long hours. Their physical and emotional relationship is negligible.

Given his general attitude towards you, OP, and his attitude towards women, I would put the chances of him NOT having a mistress at approximately 10%.