Financial abuse or luxury?

[hopingforinsight]

N/c as some posters know my RL identity.

Before we had DC, DH and I both had well paid professional jobs, at about the same level. However, I have now been a sahm for many years whilst DH has significantly progressed his career. My earning power is currently negligible relative to his.

Fast forward to now: DH likes to know what I spend, so I pay for everything on a credit card for which DH has the password so he can view the transactions. He keeps a real time spreadsheet of my expenditure split into categories which he looks at most days. There is no way for me to spend without it appearing on the spreadsheet (other than cash, and DH doesn't like me to get out cash).

My credit card bill consists mainly of family expenditure: food, insurance, car costs, DC clothes, holidays, vet bills etc The annual total is in the tens of thousands but it is well within our budget, and has still enabled us to make significant savings for retirement. I generally feel too guilty to spend money directly on myself but that is probably my own perception rather than imposed by DH who often buys me generous presents - he likes to choose my clothes and my jewellery.

DH also has a credit card, the monthly spend coming out of the joint account. I have no way of telling how much of that is business expenditure and how much is personal - it could be 100% business or it could be 100% personal. It does not appear on the spreadsheet. I feel it is up to him what he does with the money he has earned so that doesn't bother me.

Anyway, should I feel uncomfortable that DH has such a close monitoring of my spend, which I find a little infantalising, or is it reasonable of him to want to know where the money is going?

In short, I have no financial privacy, but I'm not sure why I want it.

A friend of mine tells me this is financial abuse .... even though DH has NEVER criticised me for overspending, or attempted to limit the amount.

BTW my DH works such long hours that I hardly see him and we live pretty separate lives so I do feel like a paid housekeeper sometimes and maybe that is the heart of my problem....... (the spreadsheet makes me feel like an employee providing receipts tbh).

Sorry about the long post; to refocus, my question is whether I should be insisting on financial privacy or not? Is this accountability reasonable and normal, or is it a strange way to live? Or am I simply jolly lucky?

Viviennemary its not all bad

This is definitely the exception and not the norm.

I'm poor, but I make every decision about what I spend my money on. Even the bad decisions! And I'd rather be me than you, financially. Your life sounds stifling. The thought of it makes me feel panicky to be honest. There is nothing so liberating as independence and it sounds like you have none.

We are in a similar financial situation and my DH likes to now exactly where the money is going. Not because he is tight, or controlling, just because he's an accountant and that's how his brain works. For us, the solution was for me to use a credit card for whatever I wanted - family expenses, my clothes, food shopping/ whatever and as well as that he has always transferred £x amount of money into my bank account every month which I tend to use for daily expenses like coffee/lunch out/nights out etc. in his head because he has transferred £x to me, it has gone and he knows where it has gone, whereas if he didn't do that and I spent joint money all the time, he would be tempted to ask for receipts for coffees etc which would drive me insane!
Having said that, he doesn't tell me what to wear, or not to Mumsnet etc so I think you may have more of a problem....

You're not free. It's nothing to do with being a SAHM. I'm one too. My dh earns enough for us all to live comfortably but genuinely believes that we both earn it jointly in different roles. The money is in one account. I spend what I like but also have a credit card in my own name for privacy, which gets paid off by the joint account each month. We are both responsible about money and while neither of us feel that we need permission to spend money, if it was a very big purchase we would probably discuss it. But in no way do I feel I need to account to him.

If I were you I would change the passwords on the savings accounts and hire a forensic accountant as someone suggested. I'd also get legal advice as he may not take kindly to a change in the status quo.

I certainly couldn't live like this. He could have an affair and walk out on you and you don't have info on your situation as the transparency only goes one way.

It's really not just about pin money.

I'm not convinced by the start-your-business ideas. Do you know of difficult it is to get a start up off the ground? OP, you have some difficult times ahead. You need to get some short term, mid term and long term plans. What you refer to as Pin money may save your sanity? Hugs as living with the constant anxiety sounds very stressful.

He sounds awful aside from the financial abuse, and it is abuse, he is controlling in other ways. Not allowing you to work, threatening you that you will have to cope with both the household (which he should be a part of anyway, you are a sah parent, not a housekeeper ) and a job, as though you job/career is meaningless. A job is often about more than money, just because his offers more money does not make it more important.He undermines and belittles you. How dare he say your choices are bad, how rude to suggest he has more taste than you. He is a nasty entitled man, you don't seem to feel entitled to anything however
Take back control, get a computer, change YOUR passwords, and try to get some independence, a job, or more control over Joint finances at least.

You really live like this ?

Wow. Did your husband remove your frontal lobe one night when you were asleep ?

Your posts make me so very sad.

I wish I could inject you with a little bit more self-esteem, so that you too could see how desperately sad your view of yourself and your marriage is. Both are from from normal.

You are not a martyr, no. But you are being abused. And you do deserve better.

This is beyond creepy and abusive. Your dh earns close to a million a year and you have no access to cash, have no idea what's in bank a/cs in your own name, he buys your clothes and you think you should ask his permission to spend a few quid on a computer.

I tell you what, I would rather be destitute than live with this abuser.

For those saying they couldn't be dependent on a man for money- remember it isn't always like this. I understand OP about your luxury comment- you are aware that as a family you are better financially off than most people- and can afford luxuries. However, as an individual you are not- because your H doesn't allow it.
I'm a SAHM with a DH who earns well. He pays money into my account each month for bills etc. everything else I put on a credit card which he pays off. If the bill is a bit high he queries why- but not accusingly- just wondering.. I used to keep a spreadsheet of all outgoings - his and mine- but can't be arsed now. If I wanted to buy eg a new laptop yes, I'd discuss it, but more in a 'I was thinking if getting' and also as his income is up and down (he's self-employed) I'd want to check the finances weren't too down that month.
I have all the savings money in my name (tax reasons) and can access it all- he can't.
Perhaps when you sit form with your H to talk about this. You could work from the angle of - if you were hit by a bus tomorrow how would I have money- pointing out you need access to money.
Are you sure his work is still paying what you think? All his secrecy and having your passwords makes me wonder whether actually he's lost it all and you're living on credit.

OP my sister is a lot like you. Her husband earns a very good salary, she enjoys the money, doesn't like the housework side of being a sahm etc and in lots of ways is very different to the girl I grew up with since meeting her husband and essentially being dependent upon him for everything. The difference is he does not keep a spreadsheet, she is given an allowance (or salary I suppose) in admission that she is doing a job that requires reward. They sat down and discussed what was a reasonable amount, she budgets to stay within that parameter and he lets her get on with it. Part of her is lazy and complacent and she likes the luxuries they can afford. But the point is, she is not treated like a child and checked up on. He trusts her (and she probably does take the piss a bit if I'm honest). You sound very unhappy in lots of ways and that is what concerns me. You never see each other. You no longer have an emotional connection. You are sad ffs! This is about more than finance, which I think is just one symptom of a bigger problem.

Re. The clothes. Spot the difference:

1. I don't like that dress, it's a bit frumpy. There are others that I think might suit better.
2. You look frumpy in that dress. It looks horrible on you. You shouldn't have bought it.

My dh often gives his opinion on clothes and sometimes we disagree. I expect him to have an opinion, but I expect him to voice it in a way that does not make me feel small, ugly and worthless.

Re. The job. A job is not just about money and I fully appreciate that you do not need the money. A job gives you independence, self confidence, motivation, self worth, a sense of your own identity and not merely a mother or wife. Could you consider part time work, or charity work even that will fit around your responsibilities.

And I think you should be really clear with your dh that you are so unhappy. It is not a crime to want a little corner of the earth that is really yours and nobody else's. It's not about secrecy it's about being an individual, responsible for your own thoughts, feelings, likes and dislikes.

Sorry if this sounds like a lecture, but your post has really struck a chord with me. Perhaps he is not aware how any of this is making you feel. If that is the case then it's time you told him. Good luck. X

You asked us to explain what your H is doing that is so very bad. Here's some reading material for you. Start with this one.

To be truthful I would rather live on value baked beans and be respected and treated as an equal by my dh than live the life of "luxury" you describe. I'm not a SAHM so cannot give any opinion on how finances should be arranged - I just know from my experience of the unpaid part of my maternity leave that dh earned money for us all as a family. We both earn (nowhere near your dh's income) so family expenditure is joint then I have the remainder of my salary to spend as I wish.

You are being abused as your friend has identified. It's not right that you are discouraged from buying your own clothes etc.; what does that say about your identity in the relationship? It's very sad that you don't have an emotional aspect of your marriage - in essence you are a housekeeper and child rearer. Even with children my relationship with my dh is still of enormous importance to me, perhaps more so now.

OP, you need to start the process of trying to restore some control in your life. Did your dh make the decision to devote so much time to his professional life alone, or did he discuss this with you? It seems unsatisfactory that so little time is devoted to his family but he still has those levels of control. I wish you luck.

Sorry, I haven't read everything, but good god!

You have no financial privacy (in fact he has control of your own accounts! ), you can't really wear clothes you like, you feel that you have to ask for a computer when he earns a lot.
You feel that it's his money.

Yes, total shit.

You have allowed him and supported him in his career. You have given up yours (and I wonder why. Your decision or his?)

Would it be possible to get a bit of cash back each time you shop to have cash that you don't have to account for? Like with the food shop, he probably wouldn't notice 30-50 extra if it was already expensive? Just a thought to squirrel some personal money away xx

My dh does the spreadsheet thing and knows where the family money goes. It can be irritating but its just to budget not keep an eye on me. I have my own bank account, 2 of my own credit cards and dh puts some money in my account each month as 'me' money.
I don't feel controlled but I seem to have more freedom than you. Plus dh always, always discusses our finances with me before any changes are made. I suspect that makes a big difference.

I think you should rock the boat a bit by going clothes shopping and buying yourself a computer and see what his reaction is, you seem scared how he will react I think.

OP, this sounds awful. He does not consider you an equal. He acts like he owns you. Some of your language suggests you are very browbeaten, e.g. "maybe I am complacent and lazy. i am also not sure I am very employable any more so my own business would be the way forward especially if I can get to leave the house".

I hope you can find a way to rectify the situation.

Actually, it might be s good idea to get your own bank account and credit card. Put some cash in the account if you can. Credit card just in case you need it. If dh asks its for you or to buy him gifts etc. Never hurts to have a plan b in the background, not that I'm saying you need it. But still...

THIS

'the spreadsheet makes me feel like an employee providing receipts tbh'

It makes you feel that way as it is precisely how you are being treated.

The 'Does a lot of Business Entertaining (unusual in his profession)...all on his card I can't see' thing. OP Sometimes 2+2 DOES =4

I would: go out tomorrow and buy the best Mac you can find; withdraw £500 cash; and when he interogates you asks you WTF you were doing, tell him to go fuck himself.

Genuinely, if ALL above is real, you have problems WAY bigger than 'just' the vile way he treats you vis finances

Also what quietly says. That's how it is in our household too and it has jack shit to do with how much each of you earns. I actually earn much more than my dh but do and equal share of the housework.

I've been where you are.

Make an exit plan.

Get a cheap tablet and MN from that.

But get an exit plan. Please.

Your posts are making my blood run cold. You are me 10 years ago.

One of the first things you should do OP on your new computer, is open your own personal current bank account. If he finds out about it and asks you for the password, do not reply but ask him for his passwords.

He isn't only financially abusing you, it is emotional also, telling you that you have no 'taste', forcing you into a mould he has made for you.

Your posts are sad and frightened, as though he has drained all the joy out of you. He is unlikely to change, because this is what he wants; to have you in thrall to him.

If this creep decides to leave tomorrow, you are well and truly fucked. You are in prison.