Some thoughts about "toxic" people

[flippinada]

I've read and contributed to a couple of threads where people are having to deal with what I would describe as toxic friends and family and the distress that it cause. I've had issues in the past with people this myself and it's really got me thinking.

Once thing that struck me from these threads, plus my own experience of toxic types is that there seems to be common "themes" - the one that immediately comes to mind is that the toxic person needs an enabler - usually a husband or wife who panders to their awful behaviour and colludes with them.

I know there's already a wonderful support thread (stately homes) but I thought it might be helpful to have a general discussion about how to identify these people and cope with them, plus a kind of support thing so folk know they aren't alone in having to deal with it alone?

Wow this thread is just what I needed to discover tonight. Had just posted in Chat about being irritable with my toddler - and I know this worries me so much because I fear turning into my mum who was (at times) so critical of me, she was toxic. It's hard to put in writing because it was my dad who sexually abused me so, in that sense, I felt my mother was the better of the two as she did show me love sometimes. But both were really very bad parents in so many ways. I have attracted toxic people throughout life always thinking it's ME not THEM but more recently have begun to get a grip on this and ONLY let in people who are non-judgmental, supportive and compassionate. I just fear terribly turning into a toxic person myself and really value whoever it was above who spelled out the differences, I know I won't really ever turn into my parents because I have pretty much dedicated my life to it! I am happy, I don't think either of them ever was - rich, yes, powerful, yes, but happy, no...

My mother must be knackered then! She fell out with both her parents long dead now. Has nothing to do with her 2 brothers or any extended family. Has 4 kids and only sees one of us. Met her current dh when we were teenagers and had another child and he never saw his father(my step dad) side of the family EVER and he is 30 now. Quite unbelievable really.

That's the thing noddy they seem to feed off and get some sort of energy/validation/reward for this kind of foul behaviour. Whereas any 'normal' (using that word cos I can't think of a better one) would find it just draining and awful and unable to keep it up.

Maybe they enjoy it? I really don't know it just baffles me - as I've said previously I find it easier, more rewarding to behave pleasantly.

noddy my friends mum is like that, constantly falling out with people.

I have an ex friend who was like that too, but she didn't present as the aggressive/tantrummy type.

She was of the type that seemed very weak and passive, hard done by, very 'poor me, life is hard'...and yet she was constantly, and I do mean constantly, surrounded by drama and conflict.

I felt sorry for her and wanted to help, being kind of a soft touch. I wondered why I dreaded her phone calls and always felt so drained and miserable after talking to her or spending time with her, and assumed the problem was with me.

It took someone else to point out what was actually happening - I just couldn't see it from 'inside'.

It is draining The thing is they keep repeating the same patterns all the while losing people left right and centre but never changing. Weird easier to be nice and giving but she sees that as fake and a weakness

They're vampires! they drain our energy and goodwill, that's how they keep going!

MorphsMum, I am really trying to focus on this right now, ONLY getting close to people who don't judge and who have empathy. Thinkinng of getting a book called 'what you think of me is none of my business'. I recognise toxic people when I see them, but that knee-jerk to engage with them is still in me unfortunately.

Goodjam thats exactly it

Yes vampire is a good term.

My friend almost sucked the life out of me. Looking back, I think she saw me coming a mile off. She was the type who could make a drama out of absolutely anything. I remember on one occasion she phoned me up sobbing and begged me to come over because someone had sent her a nasty message on ebay.

On an another occasion, she manipulated me into giving her an invite into my DS's birthday party (she had a toddler who was several years younger than my son) and when she arrived spent the whole time with a face like thunder moaning about how noisy it was (ffs it's a group of overexcited 5-6 year olds what else would you expect?)

She would call constantly, at ridiculous times of the night, and if I ignored the phone, just keep ringing until I answered - I ended up switching my phone off.

She was constantly borrowing money and forgetting to pay it back. She would never have her purse on her when we were out for lunch, so I would end up paying.

The beginning of the end was when she threw a massive tantrum because I didn't want to go over and see her because I was upset after splitting up with my then boyfriend.

I could go on for pages but I've said enough...it's been quite cathartic to get that out.

Another thing I have remembered.

Every time I used to meet up with her - and I mean that quite literally -Every. Single. Time...she would have a tale of someone who had given her a nasty look, had a go at her 'out of the blue', started an argument for 'no reason'.

Flippin - I had a friend like that too. She ceased contact with me as I didn't approve of her sleeping with a married man . I haven't had contact for 18 months, and it is only now I can see her for what she is. She was vile to and about her lovely mum, and she idolised her nasty, abusive father. He tried to thump me once - I quickly got out of the way - and she said I was being melodramatic. Actually - she was a bitch. She was always falling out with everyone and I know she has no contact with her siblings. When I was going through major serious shite she always thought her petty work problems that she had caused by her attitude were more important than mine. Grrrrrrrrrr

my mum drove my dads family away, yet went to see her family abroad regularly, leaving dad behind to look after the house/dog.

Out of the 3 daughters she has, there is only me who visits. My 2 dsis's are estranged from the family for one reason or another. One of the reasons was that my mum tried to gain control over one of my dsis's children, my niece.

Mum is all over me, but I know its because I'm the only one who goes round, (to see Dad more than her). When my dsis's were around before the estrangements', she'd call me to both of them, and try to coerce me to do the same to my dsis's. And now because my dsis's are not around, she tries to coerce me into calling my aforementioned niece (who thinks that 'nana' is her saviour).

My mum babysits for my nieces ds, and moans about it to me. I don't join in, btw. I change the subject. I do not want to be estranged from them because of my dad (who ended up losing his family because of her) and my wonderful nieces, and great nephew . That makes me feel like I'm in control, and can deal with that.

They do like to spread the misery don't they crushed.

I think goodjam is spot on actually, they seem the suck the life and energy out of people.

dothraki my toxic friend went no contact after taking up with a horrible boyfriend.. which I then had (another) tearful call from her...the whole thing ended up very very badly, but that,s another story. She caused me so much upset. I also remember thinking there was something about her that really unsettled me and gave me a bad feeling, and I couldn't quite put my finger on?

Then one day it hit me after months of blissful no contact - just popped into my head. I never saw her cuddle or be affectionate with her daughter. I mean she was looked after....she would hold her, but there was never any affection or kindness. I don't talk about it much because tbh when I think about it all I feel so sad and guilty :(

*seem to

Gosh I've just read it back and that last post of mine sounds very self centred doesn't it? Sorry. It was a very difficult relationship.

yeah they do, flippinada, they just can't keep the misery to themselves, can they? They are effectually saying ''if I'm miserable, then I'll make sure everybody else is too'.

And , no, you are not self centred. If that was the case, we all, at the receiving end of this toxic behaviour, are self centred. And there's loads of us. Because there are loads of them...if you get my meaning..

Thank you crushed

It's something I find difficult even now and probably always will. I often do wonder about her little girl and how she is getting on.

And yes, I do get what you mean :)

Flippin- I agree with crushed, I was friends with this woman since I was 8, it never occured to me until recently that she was toxic, so I think we are quite entitled to have a rant ..... all those years of abuse... and we never get through to them how we feel because as they have no empathy they would just think we were talking rubbish. For mine her lovely ds moved far away when he hit 18

I'm on stately homes at the minute. Have a fucking MARE of a mother BUT do spend a lot of time thinking about the question "what makes toxic people toxic".

There's a Phillip Larkin poem called 'they fuck you up your mum and dad' and basically on that vein - what I find hard is this point about toxic people having bad backgrounds/upbringing themselves. So what makes me different from my mum In that respect. Surely me licking my winds from childhood is having some affect on my daughter too.

There are some awful people in life. It evokes a sense of absolute bewilderment in you once you see your babies born and realise all that potential Ruined by bad parenting.

I don't know if toxic people know or care how utterly rubbish they are but I suspect in some sense they do not.

Oopla, I keep meaning to read the stately homes posts, must catch up with them....

Yes, it's sad, flippinada, because that little girl was us once. hope she's ok too

I think the difference between you and your mum, Oopla, is self awareness. It is not seeing the pattern that causes damage. You will be a great mum because you will go out of your way to compensate for your background.

I hope that is what I'm doing. I am with my children in a way that neither of my parents was with me. All through my childhood, I watched what my parents did and made a conscious decision not to repeat the pattern because I never wanted my children to feel what I'd felt.

Morph - I'm so sorry your mum allowed your dad to abuse you . I'm glad you have managed to find good friends and happiness in spite of that history.

Bolting - thank you for pointing out that we can love someone and not like their behaviour. And for explaining that we are not responsible for our parent's behaviour either. It has helped me in my confusion over my dad's memory.

I am going to leave this thread now, as it's bringing back bad memories and I don't want to dwell on them. But I wish everyone strength in dealing with these difficult people.

Nicknamechange - Just logged back into MN this morning and saw your last post above. I had to take a day away from this thread yesterday, particularly because my Toxic situation is ongoing. Like me, I hope you have found some support in reading this thread and realising there's a huge big group of us 'Toxic Avengers' out there.

I have just added up some numbers and realise that there are currently >20 people who truly believe I am a controlling, drama-filled, hysterical, hard to please, ball-breaking, bullying...poor excuse for a woman, wife, and mother - but then I realise those are just my poor manipulated and lied to (by each other!) in-laws.

You can't change a Toxic (or the people still in their thrall) - that's been a very painful lesson to learn - but you can stop fuelling them with your pain, distress, and anger.

Thanks everyone, it's good to talk to people who understand and I do appreciate your kind words. I know it's difficult too because of the painful and difficult feelings it evokes.

Another memory from that awful friendship - her incredible rudeness to wait staff. I remember one occasion where she was so rude I sat there cringing with shame at her behaviour - I interrupted and apologised to the staff afterwards.

It also struck me (and this seems to be another common theme) that she expected to be taken care of and was very angry if she didn't get that.