"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's March 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly use it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Starting to sound very familiar this "i had worse" "It did not happen" "your over dramatic" looking but at least you don't phone them all the time or go around I don't know why i do it to myself after everything if they are visiting the same town they don't even want to come see me :S Mums words "why should i care what you think or what you want my life does not revolve around you"

Looking your DD sounds the very image of joyful freedom and innocence. How brave and insightful and wonderful you are to see through what was visited on you and give her such a better childhood. When in time, her own DD is squealing with laughter on the all your DD will feel is joy for her and happy memories of you watching her having fun all those years ago.

That's made me weepy too, Winding. Though thank you. The thought of happy grandchildren one day is a lovely one.

Hello to all the new posters. Sorry to hear your experiences but as others have said this is a great place for support and to know you are not alone.

fog and oscalito neither of you are posting too much/hogging the thread. I think every time someone posts to share their experiences or thoughts they may help other people, and I know while it makes me sad others have been through so many of the same things it really does help to know there are plenty of others who have faced similar experiences in so many aspects of life.

And Biscuitsareme hello, when you feel ready to post we are all here ready to listen

Long time lurker here. Not even sure if I belong. My feelings about my mum are such a tangle of love and I cannot even say the other word. I was seemingly well loved as a child. Issues with my mum began after I had my own children. I think it might be related to my grandmother dying when my mum was just eighteen.

Hello, LittleBall. Sorry for what you are going through.

It's a nice day here. I'm trying to focus on my children at the moment. It's been so long now where I've just been reacting and exhausted and in a complete panic about everything, and we've all just fallen into the rut of just surviving and the like.

I'm forcing myself to take the time to focus on them, and giving them lots of hugs and kisses and telling them that they're brilliant. None of it feels natural at the moment, but I'm sure it will come in time. Decent medication is certainly helping to make it at least possible.

DD is responding so delightedly. It was funny yesterday, we were working through some Maths questions (she's a demon for homework and makes me set some even when her teacher doesn't), and she made a mistake. She looked slightly frozen. I cheerfully said that it's OK, it's just a little mistake, and you noticed, and here's how you fix it. I crossed it through, and told her to try again. She amazingly made another seven or eight mistakes through the page (she is a bright child and this was way beneath her level), and each time said 'woops! I made a mistake. I know, I'll cross it through and try again,' and each time she looked at me for praise. Again (overthinking), I marvelled at the fact that I'd never taught her this before now. It's OK to make mistakes. You are human. The world will not end. I was taught this five years ago in therapy, and I still have a hard time believing it. She just seemed so calm and happy this morning.

DS is a different kettle of fish. He's older (nearly 8 - she's just 5), and has far more reason not to trust me. He's SEN (dyslexia), so has struggled a lot and has no self esteem at all. What little was left after I'd taken it out of him when I was badly ill, the school have finished it off. Every time I praise him, I get 'you have to say that, you're my mum,' and I have to bite back telling him that not all parents manage it at all, because I don't want him to know that. What happened to me doesn't excuse my behaviour with him.

He doesn't handle change well; he'll still revert to tantrums. It doesn't matter if it's a good change or bad, he doesn't like it. So I think he doesn't feel comfortable with this sudden happy, attentive mum in the house. He's pushing and testing me. I'm trying to keep a clear head when he does this and remind myself that this is because he's a child, and he's a child who has learned mistrust, and it's not his fault. It's tricky though. too. His reaction appears to be to try to get other people into trouble (presumably because he doesn't trust he can raise higher, he feels he has to bring others down). It's hard to keep a level head when I can see exactly what he's doing.

I'm just keeping on with the hugs and praise and (attempted) patience in the hope that one day it feels more natural to me and starts being accepted by him.

That's a lovely story about your DD Looking. You may feel you have further to go with your DS, but you are doing the right things and you'll get there :)

My mum has taken to leaving silent messages. I managed to turn my voicemail off on my mobile, but couldn't do it on my landline. I knew she'd called so checked my messages, still struggling to think I'd delete before I listened to it. As it started playing I thought I'll just listen to hear her tone of voice then I'll delete, but nothing happened, just silence for 30 seconds or so.

They're supposed to be leaving tomorrow, so I'm thinking of being out of the house all day so that I miss them if they try coming here. I can't wait til I know they're 200 miles away, and they'll give up again for a while.

Bisley, is being out tomorrow an option? If so, I'd definitely do it if I were you. The other thing it might be worth doing is to call 101 to register their harassment, and so that there's a file logged if they do show up and you need help.

I have just this second thought of the right response to DS's 'you have to say that...' remark. 'Yes, perhaps that's true, but in this case I really mean it, and I want to say it as well.'

Why does it always take so long to think of these things? (Don't answer that - I know why.)

That's a good one Looking, I'll remember it. I have to say I've wondered how I'd deal with that kind of thing. My dds are only small, but it's occurred to me that at some point they might say something like that when I tell them how wonderful they are. I don't remember my parents ever saying anything positive to me/about me*, and I don't think I would have believed them if they did, so I want to make sure they always believe me.

(* another wedding day story - my dad ignored my request for no speeches and stood up to talk, he said he wouldn't saying anything nice about me in case it upset my sisters)

Looking You sound like a wonderful mother, and that is the perfect response to what your DS says.

bisley Being out the house is definitely the best idea, otherwise you will spend all day worrying in case they turn up.

Continuing to vent here - my mum does give compliments, but they're always about her. If she feels she's good at something, she's simply amazed that you could have done better. If she feels she's no good at something she's full of self pity that she could never do it like you have. Either way you feel like you have to apologise for whatever you've done well, or diminish it in some way - oh I was just lucky because x,y,z...

It's awkward tomorrow as I have an activity with the girls in the middle of the day, but I think I can go to a playgroup or something for an hour or so first. If they are going tomorrow, they'll be setting off in the morning.

Well good luck with them, Bisley. Do remember that the police can help if they do try to invade your property.

Thanks, I can't imagine it'll come to that. It's just that bit harder to ignore knocking on the door and peering through windows than a ringing phone. And what if my dds see them? They haven't a clue what's going on. Yep, definitely going to be out.

Maybe you should get some blinds bisley, blinds are brilliant as no-one can see through them either inside or out, then you and your dc don't have to put up with them peering through your window. Mine came very in handy when fil had his episodes of turning up
Also get a doorbell you can switch off, that was brilliant for me although the keys knocking the window from pil were worse so maybe not!

I also used to switch my home phone onto silent aswell as my mobile when they knew my mob no!

Quit smoking just over a week ago so processing all kinds of inner rage

My friend was over today and we were sitting in the garden chatting, her mum was picking her and her dd up after school to go back to theirs for a family meal. Something so simple as making a meal fr everyone because they LIKE spending time together just made me

So wish we all had that stately homers xx

My mum has pretended not to see me the last four times I've passed her in the street. Saving me a job I suppose!

Hi to all new folks btw x
Hello looking through the fog. Lots of your posts resonate with me. The bit about your dd on the climbing frame really got me. I know how you feel xx you sound like a fantastic mother, keep keeping on xx

Hi all

I know this is very poor mumsnet ting but I have just been reading this thread and was wondering if I might join?

I always say I survived my childhood but my parents still seem to be ruining my life at the moment I am often irrationally anger at they odd since I never get angry at anyone else

All are welcome here. Join in.

I'm lurking a lot at the moment due to work and other commitments but this thread is a very safe place to share.

Can I sneak in?
I have read the op and a few pages in and alot has hit home!

I posted earlier under a name change in relationships because the shit hit the fan but am here under reg name because 1.I would out myself fairly quickly anyway with details 2. It means I can link without typing the mess up again . 3. Is it strange if I say its like admitting my issues??

Link to my thread.

I'm going to carry on trying to read and check out some links :)

Morning all, and hello new people. I've only been here, what, three days? But everyone is warm and lovely and very helpful. Certainly everyone here deserved a lot better than they got.

Bonkey, does your mother know you have decided to stop contact with her?

It's one of the things I find most confusing. My dad and his mother spent a lot of time writing nasty letters to each other saying they were stopping contact and listing all the reasons (largely phantasies on both sides. For example, he accused her of murdering my grandfather, which is utterly batshit as he spent the last three weeks in hospital and died of pneumonia when elderly). Then there would follow years of bitterly not talking, while stalking each other (her via his brother, him via us).

The main reason I haven't gone fully NC with Dad is that I don't want to turn into that.

The other reason is that I have three siblings, and he likes to lean on each of us to get his own way. My brother is getting married in a few weeks, and I don't want to make waves.

I think I'm very lucky, in that he genuinely doesn't seem to give a rat's arse about me, so though he lives three streets away, I see him maybe once or twice a year. He never bothers to contact me, and barely knows my children.

When he does show up, it can leave me shaking for days, but as yet, there has been no harassment, and it's wanting to keep that that I haven't openly told him that I don't want him in my life. If I did that, he would absolutely show up and demand answers from me, and deny, deny, deny.

As it is, I've simply not bothered. I didn't send him a birthday card this year, and I know he's going to be all upset about that, and is probably not talking to me either, which works well for me! It's possible that word will get back to him that he's not invited to my son's Holy Communion, but as the only people likely to tell him that are my siblings and they have a grain of common sense, I think that's unlikely. Besides, he made a massive song and dance about having to attend mine when I was seven, so if he wants, he can see it as me doing him a favour.

Anyhow, the reason for all that background is that I don't know how it works when you have an 'interested' parent. So have you said that you want her out? If so, when she contacts you with 'I just don't want all this hard feelings...' is it acceptable to reply back with 'I've told you my decision; you are not going to be in my life.' and leave it at that?

Perhaps someone with better understanding of it will know what's sensible.

I went NC recently and do not pretend to be an expert but my mum is an 'interested' parent and this is what I did: i wrote a letter stating that I would only communicate in writing until I was sure she had sought help to change her behaviour for the long term. I stated that i would like a relationship based on mutual respect, but if this is not possible then we would be unable to have any future relationship at all.

I did not go into detail about everything she has done to me - no point really as all been done before and she would deny/ minimalise it. I just stated that I have had almost 30 years of her abuse, lies and emotional blackmail, and that things need to change.

This approach seemed to work pretty well. Mum phoned me on the day that she got the letter and I said 'I told you that I will not speak to you. Goodbye.' I also received one letter back from her a few days later. It was full of me, me, me comments and how she would not be 'bullied' into treatment. There was no acknowledgement of my feelings and I did not bother to reply to the letter.

My dad is her enabler. I received one phonecall 5 days ago asking me to speak to her. I said 'No, I made myself clear in the letter.' Dad then ended to phonecall. Other than this I have not received any contact at all. I was very surprised though because my mums usual style would be countless phonecalls, letters etc. Maybe she has realised that there is no point cos I will not change my mind.

Just had a catch-up on the last few pages. I'm sorry to hear about all the sad pet stories. Hi to new people, sorry not to reply to everyone individually.

Falcon, I get where you are coming from, totally. Therapy does help in my experience but it's also very hard as a lot of difficult feelings come out. I've been going for a few months and am only just getting started, and thanks to my childhood experiences I have this problem where every few weeks I freak out and become convinced I can't trust my therapist/he is being horrible/etc. I advise finding a therapist with experience of working with abuse survivors who is willing to be patient and persistent in gaining your trust.

Fog, you're not sexualising your child. You're concerned about her welfare and want to clarify boundaries in your own mind - nothing bad about that. And I think it's wonderful you're modelling a healthy attitude to making mistakes.

I am currently feeling like absolute crap. I had this idea that I couldn't go NC because my parents would want to keep speaking to me. I had a fantasy, I suppose, that they would be upset about it, that I just wouldn't be able to go NC without it causing a fuss.

Except they appear not to have noticed. I didn't announce it, I simply stopped contacting them, I think because I wanted them to finally realise they've done something wrong and be concerned and wonder why. My mum has texted me twice. My dad - nada. In fact he hasn't spoken to me in about five months. Just hasn't bothered.

And it's massively confusing because I think I can't stand my dad, that I don't want to hear from him, that it would be better if I never had to talk to him again, but I'm still hurt. I think I had this idea that I would be rejecting them, finally, instead of them rejecting me. How stupid was I.

They continue to regularly visit my brother and his family. (PFB and favourite.) Apparently I haven't actually left any kind of hole in their lives. I'm not saying I went NC to get a reaction - it's better for me if I don't speak to them - but the lack of reaction has shattered the illusion that they give a crap. I'm always telling people that my parents are different to toxic parents, they do care, they do try their best, who am I trying to kid?

A friend of mine recently told me she's been taking the piss out of her dad as he cried at Marley & Me. I thought: wow, you can do that, you can take the piss out of him? Even as an adult I would never have risked that.