"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's March 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly use it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

also sounds like theyre reeling from your change of focus from them now to your own family, which is how it should be, you become a mother, things change! Your own family and life becomes double important, and one has less time for others outside that circle,

they sound jealous and left out. But in no way should you feel guilty! Dont listen to them. Does your DH know what theyre like?

plus, rambling here, it's bloody rude to tell someone theyre having a breakdown. That is unkind!

Most of family is in another country so it works ok except they like to come to major life events or big celebrations and bring all their agendas with them. Sister lives in next big city and is very controlling and vicious frankly. The contact works that they all stay with her and then descend upon me for new year, kids b.days things like that. Sis says she wants relationship but does her very best to destroy it and play games with my kids, long long story with her. Basically there was very definite emotional abuse, and some physical, there's no grey areas on that. But they're argument is it wasn't that bad and we should all put past behind and get on. My point is everyones behavior is still the same so it is still the same and for that reason I want out.

Just popping in to say a big THANK YOU!!!! I stumbled upon you guys by chance and reading your experiences made me realise finally that the reason I do not have a good relationship with my matriarcal and control freak of a mother isn't down to me - she definitely has narcissistical tendencies.

The scales have definitely fallen from my eyes! Looking back over my life so far I can see that every major life event - births, marriage, deaths have been about her, I will not bore you with my stories - you probably know them already.

Whilst this has made me sad and in a way I am now grieving for what might have been, I now feel empowered to move forwards and break the cycle with my family if I can.

Knoledge is power!

it's amazing Meery how many of us here have similar experiences

apple, there are boundary issues with all of them, and your wanting out is a sure sign of fight or flight, that they are not behaving in your best interests. stating the obvious there. it is bloody hard disconnecting. bloody hard. it messes with your mind, they think something is wrong, go on and on and when confronted deny everything that happened

it is frustrating

only thing that keeps me going is pulling my focus to creating happy times with my own DCs and planning future with DH

thing I cant get my head around is that when my DD grows up, to teenage years let's say, that how I could behave towards her the way my mother behaved in our home. I just dont get how you could treat someone so badly who you have birthed, raised etc

But oldtoys you will not behave towards your DD the way your mother treated you. You must promise yourself that you will break the cycle. I agree that there is no logical justification for the way some mothers behave, we have to accept that is this part of their make up and do our utmost not to adopt the same traits.

OH MY GOD. I have been gaslighted by my family my entire life, especially controlling sister. I finally know I am right. Thank you MN!

thanks Meery, I know I could never ever parent my DD the way mother parented us. I just couldnt. She was out of control.

In my post above I meant I couldnt understand how I could treat my DD the way my sister was treated. I just couldnt do it.

And then this makes me realise how very out of order my childhood home was, regarding discipline. It was all SO wrong. So does my mother 'deserve' happy times with my family now? NO. Implementing this NO is somewhat more difficult by way of trying to establish zero contact.

and even now I'm questioning my actions in emailing the GP to question his advice. I have ishoos with authority figures I think

Been meaning to post on here, my mother was/is a toxic parent, a narcissist etc, it all spiralled out of control a couple of years ago - i'd long since moved away but she was a carer for my grandfather and wouldn't let anyone else help. Her behaviour when I was pregnant a couple of years ago was appalling, violence to my grandfather, trying to make my OH lie to me. Telling me my grandfather was dying so id immediately drive 3 hours up there only to find out he was fine and for her to have a massive go at me.

Anyhow - a year ago, she was sectioned under the mental health act, as a very last resort, after months of working with the local mental services and the crisis teams. I took over my grandfathers affairs until he died in October.

A year later she has assumed that we're all going on holiday together, i was dreading this, i find it stressful to spend 2 hours in her company - yet it hadn't occurred to me to say no, because im used to the emotional blackmail and still remember being scared of the rages.

We put our parents on pedestals and find it hard to accept their faults don't we?

Coming by after a long absence as I just got a voice message from my mother (I'm NC with her right now), asking me when I'm going to 'stop being distant'. My heart rate went from about 80 to 140 as soon as I heard her voice. I guess I didn't realize I was so scared of her.

We've been NC for almost a year. (Our last email exchange was not nice - my dad called me 'disgusting', said the abuse was my fault (but that there wasn't any abuse), and she said she couldn't 'be abused by her children any more' and didn't want to deal with me until I had changed.

We've been NC for almost a year, and now, on her anniversary and right before her birthday, she calls, sobbing, and blaming me for everything.

Ahem. Anyway, the TL;DR (warning, slightly sappy):

I'm so sorry and so glad you guys are here. No one should go through this crap, but I'm glad I'm not alone. I'm so glad to have access to this little community. I hope we all get peace, and soon.

thundernlightning Keep strong

Thanks, I will. And you too.

hi thunder - sounds like she is suddenly realising that she has significant dates in her life, the birthday, anniversary, and how BAD IT LOOKS to others that her daughter isnt there to share it - that is all the narcs care about, how things look to others, which is how the abuse is covered up so well by their apparently wonderful actions and behaviour in the community, in schools, in local shops, with friends, neighbour. but then behind closed dooors theyre a different person.

it's similar here, there is a massive anniversary coming up this summer, but sister wont be there, we've already booked our holiday for that time and brother wont be there either. Ouch. will LOOK terrible. But i dont care anymore!

Reading all this, I feel so much for all of you, I can feel your courage.

I could do with a bit of help at the moment, I am really struggling. Sorry to butt in but maybe my questions could help other people too?

The things I am struggling with:

What do you do with the grief and loss, once you admit what was going on? Mine is enormous and I don't seem to be able to manage it. My drug of choice is work but that doesn't work all the time.

The other thing is about patterns. I didn't matter to my parents. I don't think they even really understood that I existed as a separate person. Now I am an adult - with a few really excellent exceptions - I don't seem to matter to anyone either, at work or at home. I feel like a spoilt baby wanting attention (that's what I was called - 'Oh Fridge, you just want people to be all over you'/or when I was in deep distress, the parent would copy my voice/movements to make fun of me). Am I? It's really hard to work out whether I am treated badly because I don't matter - because my parents were right.

Actually this is shit.

Yes, Oldtoys, I think you got it in one there.

Fridge - I believe every child deserves love and attention, you and me and the others on this thread included. I learned early that my needs came far down the list of my parents priorities, and it sounds like you did too. We were trained to think that it was fine, because we were less important than whatever else happened to be ranked higher than us on the list (in my case, tinkering with cars, or drinking). I am still terribly angry and sad about it all. Sometimes I just want my mummy the way my friends have theirs.

I went for counseling when I started to realize I couldn't do this on my own, and though it was very expensive it really helped. It's also helped for me to start to be honest about it with my friends and my husband. I started to talk about stuff with them, instead of lying. It was scary but I'm glad I did it. I get a lot of strength from them. I hope you find something that works for you.

Fridge - one more thing. I agree. It is shit. It's such total shit. We were children when those patterns were made. We deserved better then, and we deserve better now. (offers hugs)

hi fridge - yes it is grief and loss, at least you have come this far, to realise that. Now be gentle with yourself. It is crucial. Dont do their job for them by beating yourself up. Build yourself up to go forwards as a stronger woman, who doesnt need to stand for any more shit from them. It is hard though to think this way, when all we want are parents we can trust, parents to share life with, parents to believe. And parents who should have believed us and respected our emotions as children and teenagers, not mimicked us, or minimised our fears or worries. I dont know how to get a hig from mum anymore, so I have to get cuddles from DH or my kids more when I'm feeling so crap. It helps to focus on your own family and to see that you are doing it so differently to how your parents raised you. Keep thinking forwards and also taking one day at a time really helps. Keep talking here too, let it out.

also sounds like you are trying to find your voice and to be heard? I had that too. Fed up feeling ignored

Hi Thunder and Toys - you are frightening me. I mean in a good way. You really do know what it's like, don't you?

It's very hard to find people that know what it's like.
I am so so sorry for you all (I mean as someone who knows what it is like). With holding affection when you need it - it's such an awful form of cruelty

Sometimes I just want my mummy the way my friends have theirs.

Yes, that's it - the wanting, and then being ashamed of it, because you're grown up, old enough to be someone else's mummy.

Finding my voice - it's frightening. It feels as if the same scenario is repeated over and over again, at work, at home. Managers, even some friendships - it's like I keep finding my 'cruel parents' all over again - I don't know how to take care of myself. I am reasonably intelligent/competent but think I'm about to have to leave another job because of another pattern emerging.

(Thunder I have a partner and try to talk to them about it, I know they love me but also they don't understand, at bad times it feels as if they treat me in the same way - with contempt and indifference)

I don't know how you look after yourself. Are there phrases/strategies? Books?

Thank you all.

Fridge - I couldn't have done it without counseling. I was in a downward spiral and very close to suicide. Now that I've got a decent foundation to work from, I've done a lot of reading (Toxic Parents really was a gem. I'm reading After the Tears now, which is a very interesting look at how the traits that are harming us now actually protected us then - very eye opening for me. It's helping me respect my habits rather than loathe them, which is actually helping me change them.)

Self care stuff? Well, I try to walk to and from work, because I'm bad at getting exercise, and that's supposed to really help depression. I've also really shifted my social group so I've got more real friends and less 'case load'. It wasn't easy and I feel like I've abandoned some friends who might need a shoulder to cry on, but I can also see how they're not changing and it's not good for me to be around them. I also take time for walks, or for sitting with a cup of tea, or for reading. But this is all new for me. When I was at my worst it was a triumph just to take a multivitamin in the morning and some days it just didn't happen. Baby steps. I think every step, even just wanting to be happy, is a win.

good post thunder - fridge, regarding self care, I find that I am only conscious of this in the last year,

I will take time to cleanse my skin morning and night, to shower each day is such a boost for me, yes getting out of bed is such a struggle, but into the shower, a strong coffee and off I go.

Like thunder said, simply taking TIME for ME to sit - read, watch Holby, watch a cooking programme, or read a magazine - WITHOUT FEELING LAZY!!!!! AS grwoing up we were never entitled to just SIT...always criticised for sitting on the sofa!!!!

so now, that makes me happy. just being.

and walking - each day - walk for 30 mins. It makes a huge difference.

and taking time to think about eatijg well, cooking, taking time to think of me. it's not a crime to be selfish I tell myself :-)

also, sounds like there may be transferal of parents to your authority figures at work? I used to do that, I had no voice at work and was too subservient iyswim Authority figures, even hairdressers make me behave differently. Weird. Like I dont exist as a person with a voice, because someone else is making the decisions.

These are all really good ideas, thank you.

I know it will sound pathetic but I didn't actually know what you meant by 'self care'. The 'time for me' thing - yes, I have realised recently that most of my time is spent trying to atone for being inadequate - even my 'hobbies'...

The work /relationships thing is hard. I need help to recognise how I am attracting the same situations. So far I've just blamed it on myself not being 'good enough' (and a lot of people would agree)