"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's March 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly use it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

That's really great to heat singlemama. I have to say, I've started to feel the same way since I went NC and I am not bullied/ emotionally blackmailed into contact anymore. But it took me a long time to reach this point and not give in through the FOG.

"I actually think they will pretend nothing happened but the kids will be here so if they do start a shouting match I will ask them to leave, like wise if they expect an apology, they won't get one."

I think that approach is a good one soundwave.

My Mum now wants to brush it all under the carpet and pretend Dad didn't threaten me. She tried to persuade me to attend his 70th birthday do on Saturday, even though he's disowned me, hasn't spoken to me in over a year etc and said that it would've been a diluted first meeting. I think she truly (as usual) wants to pretend it didn't happen. They've always been good at that but he'll just do it again.

Thanks for that msg DSOTMR. I have to check out what this fog is although I reckon it was what I was experiencing yesterday and so many times before when I've wanted to just put my head in my hands.
I've been around the block a few times and now thanks to an amazing counsellor for past 2 years, am stopping the repeating patterns. It has been a really tough two years and I think, due to my ex & this ongoing court case, it'll be a hard period for another while yet but Im looking forward to the light at the end of the tunnel and some glimpses of it in the meanwhile :-)
It's very sad though that some of us have to go so long people pleasing before we can actually start thinking of our own needs & wants!

Fear Obligation Guilt (FOG)

Oh wow that's great. So true!
I'm so glad I happened upon this thread.
:-)

morning to you all
I haven't posted for a few months (I'm the one with the religious nut mother who kept a stick behind the sofa and used it daily on my poor older sister - I saw it but couldn't stop her grrrr)

Anyhow, I had to visit GP yesterday to get repeat prescription for AntiD and I had been told that I had to come and see him as it had been several months since being prescribed.

So we had a chat, I explained while my sister has chosen zero contact, I feel that I still have to go Low contact, to try and maintain some level of civility - I know FOG - but just seeeing Maggie Thatchers funeral made me think but what if she dies, how will we all feel? Guilt? What?

Anyway, GP understood that in effect I was BLOCKING the emotiions again, and said this was actually a very DANGEROUS course of action, bevause while I may THINK I have managed it, my anger issues with my mother may manifest themselves in other ways in daily life - ie getting angry while driving, if car in front is too slow etc etc

I am just so confused and a bit upset that he didnt see my decision to keep going on a low contact level as the best course of action, rather it would be more damaging.

I guess deep down I know he is right. But I wanted more than that from him - see how I see validation in figures of authority???!!!

Thanks for listening, had to get that out.

that was meant to say SEEK validation from authority figures

oh and she left a voicemail last night AND an email saying

• your landline must be off the hook because it is sounding/showing an engaged tone now for a good while, you don't want to be running up huge phone bills do you?!

Grrr

She is like a stalker, seriously.

Acutally, my DH was ringing me from abroad. I emailed her with one line to tell her that.

BTW I have given up ever ringing her, and when she rings, she was ringing up to 65 times, I never picked up. Cannot bear to hear her voice. She always manages to throw in some hurtful statement. I just don't answer anymore. If I have to speak, I make sure the DCs spend most of the time talking to her, not me!

I meant - she was ringing and ringing, in one call the phone would ring out 65 or so times. Like she was yelling - you WILL pick up the PHONE!!!!! YOU WILLL!!!! I WILL KEEP LETTING IT RING UNTIL YOU PICK IT UP!!!

We don't live in a 43 room mansion where we may not HEAR the phone FFS!

Aaaaaaaaagh!!!!

DH thinks we all need group family counselling. LOL. PMSL at that suggestion. Can imagine how that would go. Bloody waste of time and money. Even doctor agreed that she isn't listening to my voice, and never will...

But maybe if you went and she agreed to come, it would give you the validation you need from an 'authority figure' that she really isn't listening and things will never change. And maybe it might just make her stop and think.

I have written a letter to my Dad essentially saying I love him and want to see him, but that I feel he does not make an effort to see me etc and that he knows where I am if he wants to contact me. I said I would write to him at Christmas to let him know how his grandchildren are. I am unfriending him and all step relatives on facebook, so he can't have the easy option of checking on there anymore.

Thank you to the person who said I wasn't getting anything positive from the relationship with my Dad anymore - it was like a lightbulb going off! Hopefully I can now stop constantly thinking about him and our relationship and just enjoy life again, having actually said all the things I am ranting at him in my head.

It was me Haggis that said that. That sounds like a big step but I felt a bit better once I'd done a similar thing as I suddenly felt more in control, rather than like it just happened to me iyswim?

Oldtoys I think your GP sounds very caring and they're right as you continue to have to deal with your toxic parent it won't be easy at all. I couldn't imagine having my phone ring that much.

Maybe you're not at all like me but what the GP said rang true for me. Whilst I continued to deal with my Dad the feelings would churn within me and come out in other ways. I cried and shouted at my kids too quickly It affected me profoundly having contact with him. I'm a much calmer and nicer Mum now I no longer see him or speak to him. And feel much better within myself. I feel free.

On the other hand I ought to have stopped contact with both parents but I opted for low level with my Mum. I couldn't bring myself to severe contact with both. It's a very tricky decision and you have to do what feels right for you and in the right timing x

Low contact didn't work for me. It just encouraged them to bully me even more to accept that my version of my childhood was incorrect & that I am the bad guy to withdraw.

I am still the bad guy to go no contact & they're still trying to make me visit (why?) but I just ignore.

thanks dontstep& midwife

I can see where he ( the GP) is coming from,but the way he said it implied that I would become a narky parent...I emailed him yesterday, (he is open to emails and encourages it) saying I was most confused by his suggestion that my way to handle my mother would only mean more frustration in my family life as a mother.

no reply, not expecting one, as perhaps I shouldnt have sent it

But I fully never intend to parent our kids the way I was parented. Ever! Like that poster says, we do hugs, we do second chances, we dont do yelling, we do chilled out etc etc in our home

I am feeling ALL over the place this week. Want to feel ok again.

midwife - i can fully see what you mean, as I think I know deep down that low contact allows my mother to THINK she is best buddies with me...she is anything but. I never ring her, never visit. That is progress for me.

plus just wondering if anyone else felt the Margaret Thatcher funeral reminded them of their narc mother, if you have one? Mine is like a very similar hybrid of her...but less direct, more riddles in her conversation that you could imagine, but the whole powerful female thing is ever present,under a guise of oh I'm just a gentle pillar of the community.

gah

who used to batter my poor sister every evening during the week.

yes. honest, respectable, law abiding mother werent you?

sorry, I'm a bit eugh today with it all

I'm just wondering does anyone have any experience of this? When I have tried to reduce contact or have talked about withdrawing contact my family think I aml having a breakdown. They are so expert at diminishing my feelings and making me feel I'm actually sick and they are fine that I have questioned this myself. I mean withdrawing from family is a sign of a breakdown. Has anyone else ever wondered if they are actually a bit not well? Then I feel cross I am being manipulated like this and think well if I were having a breakdown how come I hold down a demanding career, look after my children well, have good friends and relationships elsewhere and good relationship with dp and basicsally do not feel depressed, perhaps a little anxious at times. Does anyone else second guess themselves?

hi appletarts, i think that sounds like the FOG, anyone else on here have any suggestions?

You are clearly NOT having a breakdown, this sounds like their way of pulling you down, as they can see that you are successful at work, have a beautiful family, and good relationships etc. Those are areas of life that many people can't handle, and you sound completely accomplished to me

ignore them. ignore ignore ignore

if it helps, both my brother & myself NEVER divulge any emotional content to other family members now

it's just not worth it.

any communication is like chatting to a hairdresser: weather, the garden, the house, DCs school etc etc

i think it's a protective thing

BTW I've had 2 magnum almond icecreams & 4 choc digestives, plus a large Cabernet, feel infinitely better.

My parents have made me second guess myself, doubt my parenting abilities and my self esteem. Visits used to always leave me after with a sense of failure.

I now tell them very little. Stick to innocuous subjects like oldtoys says only. I tell my Mum nothing and limit contact with her and do not see my Dad at all.

Do what feels right for you, screen phone calls or end them after a short while, keep busy and limit contact if that works best for you and claim ignorance on anything they say. Just say I'm not sure what you mean? I'm busy etc. Or I answer a question with a question, like 'why do you ask?' That often throws them as they shouldn't have been asking such a thing. If that makes sense? I think it's about boundaries as well.

Yes don't talk about withdrawing or share anything like that. Just slowly get more busy and less available and adjust boundaries. That may work better?

Appletarts you are now having a breakdown! It is indeed FOG!!
Plus gas lighting by the sounds of it!!

What's gaslighting?? They always say this, oh that since I had kids I had a breakdown but really since I had kids I want to protect my family. I have honestly at times wondered am I having a breakdown, why can't I just go along with it all anymore but actually I think it's cos I got more healthy not less healthy. I think when someone has a breakdown they can't really function in their lives so why do they say this to me when I am clearly functioning. Yes I feel huge FOG.

do you have any physical distance from them Apple? I mean, different towns to live in

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting