asking dh to move out tomorrow

[andthenshewasdone]

we have together since we were 25, now been married 7 years. we have 3 children, 6,4 and 2 years. tomorrow morning i am going to ask him to move out (his dad is local and they are very close). it is all so sad, i really hope i am doing the best thing for all of us.

the back story is that dh has always had a very emotional approach to money, characterised by extreme anxiety and constant worry about whether we have enough etc. this has frequently meant that he goes on and on talking repetitively about 'the credit card' (which we pay off in full each month). this can literally be repeated several times a day.
i have been a sahm since having our ds, but became a childminder in jan 2012 and make a significant contribution. i have also begun babysitting for an agency in the last 3 months and this has begun to pay well too.

he is always telling me to be careful with money, watch the heating etc.

we have separate accounts, he doesn't question exactly what i spend, just that i am not overspending. the amount i received from his salary halved a couple of months after i began earning.

two years ago we had debts of about £4,000. i asked my mum to help, which she did, and we were totally debt free. this did not noticably decrease his anxiety and attendant behaviours.

this year we are in debt again-almost £4.000, this time to the kids' savings accounts. i could not see why, as between us we take home over£3,000 a month. i thought it was me (because he always says so). in december i wrote down every penny i spent. i fritter a bit, but it isn't me.

he said it is 'the bills'.

i decided last weekend that i would suggest that i took over the'bills', that is, all the extras that aren't DD. this would be mostly car stuff, plus anything that needs replacing in the house etc. i thought that if he only had to manage his own spends he might be less anxious-and the current system clearly isn't working!

i started going through all his current account statements and our cc bills, so that i could work out a budget before suggesting this.

i found that he is spending in the region of £700 a month on non family/house/car stuff. in the first 3 months of 2012 he withdrew over £1,450 in cash from his current account. he very rarely uses cash when we are together. he doesn't seem to buy anything, he rarely goes out without me ()squash once a week, which is on cc).
he smokes, and drinks several cans at home several times a week, but these show up as card payments a lot.

he was not very sorry, claims my numbers are wrong, he overspends a little on fags and booze but mostly on family stuff or bailing me out (not true).

he is angry and upset that i 'attacked' him, i am emotionally abusive etc

he keeps hugging me, asking me if i am alright, he loves me, he 'is sorry i feel hurt' but he has 'always been transparent'. he has suggested marital councilling, as he feels that i hate him.

i don't hate him. i am inshock.i feel that he is not who i thought he was. he has spent in the region of £8,500 on himself (or on something) in the last 12 months, all the time grinding me down on a daily basis about our lack of money.

he will not think i am being fair.
i just want space, to adjust, to reassess who he is, who i am, if i still can trust and love him. and to feel in control of my own money for once.

is this ok? or am i being selfish?what about the children?

my whole world has been turned upside down.

Do you even want to go to counselling with him? Also he seems very keen to aggressively throw labels at you, probably because this pulls the focus away from his own questionable behaviour.

I still think you are not getting the full story here.

Do not go to joint counselling with this man

he is already railroading you into believing you have over reacted, apologising for fuck-all, starting to question yourself

He will use counselling sessions as another weapon to beat you with

Don't do it

The only counselling I would recommend for you is individual sessions to find out why you accept his gas lighting and emotional abuse of you

I agree couples counselling is not advisable if one partner is abusive. Don't do it. Stick with your plan to split up.

not sure he is abusive exactly, but then i feel very confused about what is happening.

i need to remember i do not need his permission to be miserable or to ask for real change.

You are being thoroughly abused, he is gas lighting you and defining YOUR reality. Next step will be anger and physical abuse. From what written you MUST NOT get back with this man. I actually feel chills from this thread.

we have been doing without for so long, but the deal breaker for me has been the gas lighting and the mental torment. Your very own words.

Yes it is abusive.

You have been keeping the heating off to keep bills down while he has be spending freely. He has been mentally tormenting you over this and blaming you for overspending.

having a very bad day today. i feel very confused about what is happening and what we should do for the best. this is all moving so quickly.

we seem to be living in two different realities

mine-i was trying to find a way of helping dh manage his anxieties about money, in the spirit of 'if you keep on doing the same thing you will keep on getting the same result'. i have been miserable living with his anxieties, but i also wanted him to be free of them too, it was only meant as a positive thing.
i discover that he actually has a lot of money available to him for discretionary spending, 600-700 a month. i could not see what he was spending this on and considered an addiction of some kind, as he was always telling me he was skint.
he has now shown, in detail, over 1 month, that about 400 of this he spends on fags/cans/lunch/squash and the rest on family or couple days out (it was my birthday that month, some months we never go out together though).
i have apologised for somewhat hysterical questioning about where money has gone but still explained i find 400 too much in our circumstances.

i have explained it is the hypocrisy that staggers and angers me, and that i find his behaviour and attitude around money controlling and entitled.

i have explained that i have felt disinclined to spend time talking to him because he will turn the conversation to his financial anxieties and it makes me want to scream.

i asked him to move out for a while so we could work on sorting things out without destroying each other and creating an awful atmosphere for the children.

his-he has been visciously and unfairly accused of using prostitites or gambling. he has been kicked out of his own home because of my unjust and unfounded accusations and been given no opportunity to defend himself. he has been concerned about my mental stability and therefore about the children because of my outpouring of anger and sudden personality change.

he may be a little anxious about money but this is just being responsible. he has never accused me of overspending. but i am just as bad as him because i must spend almost a third of what he does because i sometimes smoke and drink too.

our marital problems all lie with the fact that i cannot get over my extreme emotions regarding wanting another baby and his vasectomy (i didn't want him to have it, but didn't know how strongly i would feel afterwards). we have talked about this a lot and i have said that i sometimes hate him for taking all choices away from me by having the vasectomy.

just 10 days after apologising, saying he has taken a long time to adjust to being a father, that he has been selfish and unthinking and agreeing we would be kind to each other and work hard to mend and improve our family, he is saying he doesn'y know who i am anymore and he doesn't know if he wants us to get back together.

he is very angry and feeling very badly treated and sorry for himself. he has done nothing wrong other than smoke and drink a bit too much, which he is addressing with a dry month and roll ups.

i am now in the position of having to be the one to beg him to come back!

how did this happen? everything will be so much worse now.

thank you to anyone who reads this. i feel so abandoned, so like i have got everything wrong for everyone. so lonely.

He has completely turned this back on you. Just like it was your fault to start you were over spending etc. He has actually driven you to this by constantly telling you that it is all your fault. It isn't, do not accept this. You initially started this as you could not see what you were doing so wrong with money and wanted to make his and your own life better.

That he wasn't being honest with you is what opened this whole can of worms.

There is a basic lack of transparency about all this. You have discovered he has a discretionary £600-£700 while you have 1/3 of that. Even if some of that is spent on you why is he the only one deciding this. Especially as he is incapable of doing this without running you into debt.

If between you he is getting into debt then you cannot afford to be spending the way you are.

Some months you don't go out at all so what does he spend the additional money a month on then? This debt/spending has not just built up over one month. I think you need to look a lot deeper at a whole years worth of spending. Has he shown where all the cash he is withdrawing is going as all that he spends on you is on card. He spent it somewhere.

You need a proper budget hence looking back over the last year and proper money going into and account to cover all bills including heating, clearing of debts, repaying the children's accounts, all child necessities etc.

£400 is too much in the circumstances where he is insisting you do not turn the heating on. He is saying that fags/cans/lunch/squash are more important than keeping the house at a reasonable temperature.

What is left should be split fairly between you maybe with a % being put away for emergencies.

Perhaps a visit to a proper financial planner would help?

Don't accept you are to blame. He has played a large part in this too.

If you do want to have a future with this man (which is questionable), then perhaps you need to get agreement on how you will manage your household finances from this day onwards. You need total transparency and honesty, you both need to see where your money is going every day.
Neither of you should be controlling or accusing, it is your family's money and you should manage it jointly in partnership.
Could he do this do you think? Do you even want to try? He really has turned it all back on you and you sound so confused when what you were looking for is answers.
Good luck

Seems like he's the one deciding what money gets spent where and how much?

£700, while he's telling you to keep the heating off?

This is controlling behaviour and the fact that he continues to lob accusations about your mental health basically in response to you for daring to question this spending is telling.

The mental health remarks are designed to throw you off the scent. I have no doubt that your mental faculties are entirely normal.

You've busted him, and now he's trying every trick in the book, that's all it is.

Basically he's been off enjoying himself while you daren't spend anything for fear of the repercussions. He's a shit.

Re-read everything you've written. It's all about him. Please don't beg him to come back, I reckon you'll find the fog suddenly clears once he's gone.

He is trying to manipulate you. I know its difficult right now and probably consumes your every thought but stay strong. His anger will pass. You will regain control. Don't let him turn this on you. Stay strong.

Another question for you. If he has a discretionary £600 - £700 a month did he show you where the additional £300 a month is going that put the DCs savings £4k down?

i don't know if i can bear to go through all the finances again. it's not about who is right/spent what-it is about attitudes to money and decision making. i think.

should i be going through his bank statements again?

i do feel manipulated. not at all sure what is real and what isn't. so tired, so off to bed.

thank you everyone, it really helps to be heard.

No you should not be going through finances or statements anymore. You should be getting this awful man out of your life.

I feel so damn sorry for you. He has done a total number on you hasn't he - gaslighting, insulting and accusing you of being unstable. Deliberately only using a single month's accounts to apparently prove you are wrong (I echo Xales - one month is NOT a snapshot of how finances are divided. Twat)

He has zero respect for you lady. You have worked extra hard to contribute financially and you have carried the burden of his so-called 'anxieties' over money while he has belittled and crucified you.

You sound totally ground down and fragile and I am not bloody surprised.

Am glad he' had a vasectomy as he can't have any further children with a vulnerable woman then fleece her financially and emotionally.

Dump him. Stay strong.
Whether he thinks you 'ought to let him come back' or not is totally beside the point. You do not WANT him back I don't think. Your posts had a flash of hope and optimism, of strength and maturity - then he did his nasty little manipulative number on you and your resolve and self-belief has been trashed again.

Refuse to let him back - he can stay at his dad's un til he's got his dad into debt too (he'll need lots of drinkies to get over his shitty wife so will be badgering dad for lolly. Snivelling little toad)

Give it a few months (and he'll turn nasty btw but you'll see him in his full beastly colours and it will be a major turn off for you)

Make a new life for yourself away from this controlling arse.

You have said yourself - 'this will make it worse' - well then, don't make yourself available to his worsening vindictive behaviour. Seek some legal advice asap and let him smoke his fags and drink his cans away somewhere he can't fuck with your head any more.

..Oh, and just to point out, in your earlier post your wrote this:

*he says it is drinking, and even accepts that i have been trying to discuss alcohol/money all year but he has been wilfully not listening. he accepts he has a deep seated issue and plans to seek counselling for himself first, and then organise couple counseling.

he will still give me most of his salary, and will focus on repaying kids, which i will be able to see.

so, our story is that we have separated to allow him time to sort out his demons without leaning on/hiding behind me. we hope to come back together, but i have said we are looking at a minimum of months, not just weeks*

So that was all bullshit then??

As for stealing from his own kids. Well, they're the types least worthy of even the shit on your shoes.

should i show him this thread?

NO!!!! Don't show him this thread! Where will you go to receive impartial advice afterwards? You will have nowhere to go and to offload, get advice, without him reading everything you write.

I agree with all the others, he is gaslighting you. In the ONE month of the year where he SHOULD be spending more money on you, he still spends more than that on himself.

What would your spending look like in the month of HIS birthday? Or any of your DC's birthdays?

He says you spent at least 1/3 of the same amount of money - lets put it another way, he spent THREE TIMES what you did in discretionary spending, THREE TIMES. And I'll bet some of your discretionary spending is also on the DC, not just yourself.

Don't show him the thread.

Nothing has changed except he has secretly overspent by £400 not £700 in the period he has checked.

Everything else still stands. I'd tell him you want no contact from him except wrt to arranging contact with the children until, well you decide on that.

Don't allow any further discussion over who he thinks is at fault for past financial situations. This is here and now and he's to stay away.

DO NOT show him this thread. You will gain nothing and he will gain everything.

DO NOT show him this thread. You will gain nothing and he will gain everything.

Your DH is financially abusive, emotionally abusive, controlling and a liar. You do have a problem - him. He's using everything he 's got to make this your problem, have you grovelling and putting up with even more of his shit. He's even making you question your own sanity! He is a bad husband. You deserve much more than this. Your kids deserve more than this model of a relationship. If you have a DD, how would you feel reading this if she was to post it in 20 years time?

OP, I am a world class fritterer of money. I waste money on chocolate and junk food at work, in my days off I spend it on uneccessaries such as coffees and lunches when I'm out shopping (wasting even MORE money on makeup and shoes and other stuff I don't need.) I would go as far as to say I am actively careless with money. Please believe me when I say I would struggle to spend 400 quid on rubbish a month. I can't comprehend how you could spend that much (something like 20 odd pound a DAY?) on fags and booze and treats for yourself. That is beyond frivolous spending. However, what the really important thing is? I'm a single 26 year old without children and family to support. Spending as I do is unwise, however if like your husband I had a family to support it would be nothing short of grossly selfish and unfair. It is ESPECIALLY selfish when he has been haranguing you and constantly stressing about money. Do not feel bullied into thinking that as it is now 'only' 400 a month that this behaviour is acceptable. It really isn't, and you are not in the wrong feeling upset by his spending OR his attitude towards you and the family finances. I know its terrifying to face these things but please think about whether in the long run this relationship is going to make you happy.

I agree with anyfucker, counselling on your OWN. not with this guy. he is gaslighting you, making you doubt your interpretation of the facts.

that is a heck of a lot of money disappearing every year. he's not giving you any explanations that make total sense. something still isn't clear. he's not apologetic, he's not remorseful. he's making you feel guilty. he knows he has something hidden and yet he is deliberately making you feel guilty. Guilty for not believing his lies?? please please do not beg this man to come back