I feel like a fool. Am I?

[4paws]

I am a SAHM and living overseas for the last 18 months. My youngest is now 3 and where we are living is OK. I can put up with it for a while longer!

My DH works hard and really enjoys his job, which is great. He doesn't work at weekends, and is good with the DCs. During the week, he hardly sees them, he's up early, and back late. By late I mean 8pm at the earliest mon-fri. The last few months he always seems to be late at night, meeting colleagues for dinner, going out for team drinks, presentation to prepare so he'll be back late. Drinks seem to mean 1am, dinner, 11pm, report to write, 9:30pm. It may all be true, I have no idea, no way of knowing. I don't think he is cheating (Lord knows everyone says that) but why he is he out every night? I know the jobs market is really tough at the moment (tho I've been out of it too long) and I know that he is really into his job and really like socialising with colleagues.

Clearly, what he's not into is spending time at home with me. I feel like an idiot because I have no idea ever where he is, what he is doing. If I am lucky I get an "oh, i'll be late home tonight" but that is it. This isn't my idea of family life, this isn't my idea of a relationship. I feel silly for thinking that I want to leave and to disrupt the DC's, but I also feel that this lifestyle is all lovely for him and it would be v easy for him to cheat, and the gullible fool at home wouldn't know. Or I am just paranoid and controlling.

I have spent years feeling unloved and ignored. I have been unhappy because he doesn't communicate, where he is, or answer his phone/texts whereas my argument is that when I was pg or with small DCs, he should answer, he should check, because he should be concerned that we were all ok, and actually he doesn't worry about it all.

Sorry for rambling

4Paws, I think you can search for evidence of infidelity if that is what you want to do, I always suspected that my ex was having an affair but by the time I got to the end I would have been happy for signs that someone was willing to take him away.
I'm guessing you went into the marriage believing in a partnership in which you each supported one another and attempted to fulfil one another's needs - does he do this or is the supporting a wholly one way street ? A man who deserves you will not only care about what you want and desire to make you happy but will see this as important enough to make changes to ensure this.

He thinks he's great, supporting the family, providing for everyone, and he's right, he has made it possible for me to stay home with the kids

Actually, you've got that the wrong way round. You've made it possible for him to do his job because you've stayed at home with the kids.

This culture of presenteeism drives me mad, it's bollocks that that kind of socialising is at all necessary in order to succeed. And it particularly annoys/saddens me when senior male managers perpetuate the myth.

OP - whether or not you decide to split up, you need to bring some balance back to this relationship and force him to take some responsibility at home. A good suggestion is "I've started an xyz class, it takes place on Wednesdays at 6pm so you need to be home by then". I'd love to see his reaction to that.

This man is an adult. He's chosen to enter an adult relationship and in an adult relationship you have some responsibilities (which are usually a given but I don't think he got the memo). The ones that are MOST important are the ones he's falling short on, like respect , affection and empathy/thoughtfulness . You have a very valid reason to leave if he doesn't make any effort to rectify the above.

Remember, it's you taking care of his home and your children pretty much single handed (besides money) and THAT is how he repays you.

As for childcare, I questioned him on it recently, and yet he does not respect me for being SAHM. Yep, it's useful, someone has to do it (bit like filling the dog bowl) but ultimately unimportant. Whereas his career...

Do you realise what he is saying here?

Arrogant. Dismissive. Selfish. Ignorant.

I see no redeeming qualities at all in this 'man'.

I'm repeating myself here, but I really think you need to go away for a while and let him do your job for a bit so he can get back his respect for you and you can get some respect for yourself.

Just a week or so in your shoes could make him view your input to family life in an entirely different way.

What would he say OP if you told him that you are fed up of your life as an expat and the way the company treats it's employees here, expecting them to behave as if they are still single, not valuing family etc (thereby initially blaming the company rather than him so it's not seen as a personal attack) and that life for everybody was so much better when you were still in the uk, so you think that it is time to move home for the entire family...

Would he agree with you on any of the points and would he donanything about initiating a move back home?

Or would he tell you that you're being ridiculous, life is wonderful where you are, why on earth would he give it all up to move back to where it was not quite so good for him but significantly better for the rest of the family? Or would he tell you to go home while he stayed on - and would he suggest either staying married or splitting up?

I think the answer to these questions will answer a lot of your questions as to how he views you, your dc and his life with you bs his work (and any potential affair or not).

On a separate note, how would he react if he is bugging up how great he is at providing for you all, enabling you to be sahm, etc etc as you've said above and instead of agreeing that he is great for doing that, you were to tell him that actually you dint agree with him, he is devaluing you, your life and opportunities, and that actually it makes you think of him as less of a man and lose respect for him. Would that shock him into seeing how selfish he is being?

I also agree with making him take a week off to look after the kids by himself (and making sure that he does all your other stuff too so he doesn't hand the house back in a pigsty etc!!)

Tell us about weekends OP. You've said he doesn't work at the weekend. Does he muck in with the DC and participate fully in family activities? After they're in bed, do the two of you have a nice evening with him talking to you and listening to what you have to say? What is your sex life like?

How about if you asked him to be home by 7pm (or 8pm at the absolute latest) without fail at least one day per week for a 'date night'? How would he react?

Is there any way you could go back to work? Would that help your feelings of self worth?

To be honest, if he doesn't value your contribution to the family then that would be a deal breaker for me

Sorry Bedtime stories called, and I also hid the thread and took forever finding it again

I wanted to say thanks to all, even if I don't manage a reply, I am rereading over and over. Lots of comments that hit the mark.

ZipZap I don't know. He spent hours up and down the motorway in the uk, so not often back early, for sure life is better for him now. As for the DC, well, arguably the UK (family etc ) could be better. Here isn't that fab. He has said before he would come back to UK if I was adamant.. I guess I sit there thinking about what is best with a longterm rose-tinted 'family' view and tbh it is a comfortable life and many people are really struggling right now, and I am lucky not to stress about bills and food. I could well be shafting myself in the future tho

I think people have a right to monogamy if that is what has been negotiated, and more especially if your h was keen to negotiate that when it suited him.

However SGB has a point . I remember complaining like hell to my h about his late stays at work, lack of help and support and putting his career before mine- for years, and I might as well have been talking to the wall . But when I found out about his long term cheating habit, that was it, and I was ready for all sorts of real boundary enforcement .

Now, a year later, I ask myself what the hell I was thinking. The cheating was only the tip of the iceberg of an unequal relationship where I was disrespected all over . Why on earth I needed to spend so long finding evidence of his infidelity, I don't know. It was the least of the crap, and the rest was visible .

And finally, that level of disrespect where you are the second rate citizen in the relationship means that they will probably cheat at some point anyway.

And don't let your stay at home status get in the way- you are a partner and carrying half the load. And anyway, I was working and in fact earning more than him- it makes sod all difference. It's the attitude of entitlement and lack of care which is the issue . He wouldn't treat his peers at work that badly, would he?

Is being comfortable worth staying with a man that doesn't appreciate you or respect you? How do you know he won't leave you anyway? He sounds like he barely lives with you (as a family) as it is.

He would say he's a good man; he doesn't cheat, he's not violent, he doesn't spend all the money, works hard, not a gambler or an alcoholic, spends time with the kids at the weekend.

... it's slightly reminiscent of a 17th-18th century slave owner. Look, I'm a good master, you're lucky to be in my comfortable household, so stop complaining and get back to work.

Leaving that aside, none of those qualities - which aren't qualities so much as the absence of vices - none of them relate to you, or being in an intimate, equal relationship with you.

I mean: if I have no vices and am hard working, does that entitle me to a life partner to love me, do my housekeeping and raise my children? For a simple monthly fee of £xxx? If so, I'll find my credit card....

To put it another way, 4paws, you deserve much more love and respect than this. Much more!

It's not just a matter of making him come home early or making him do her job, though, is it?

Fundamentally, OP, your husband doesn't respect you. He knows, when he can be bothered to think about it, that you are very unhappy. Of course he knows that. Your happiness is not important to him, except in terms of shutting you up so that he can carry on doing what he's doing.

Personally I think it's very likely that he's having an affair and as someone said above, he has detached himself from your marriage so that he can do so guilt free. If he hasn't started an affair yet, it's absolutely inevitable. Please don't tell me it's all men going out drinking after work. Please don't tell me he's chatting to men at 1 am. No way. Absolutely no way.

In your position, OP, I would use some of that money you have for a private detective. It seems as though if you left without knowing for definite what's going on, you may go back to it. You need to know. It will be very hard for you to hear what a detective has to say, believe me, but it will hit you very hard that while you are cleaning and washing and caring for children so that he can have his career, he is living the life of a single man.

So I would contact a good agency and just ask them to find out what he's up to. They will do that. Then pack your bags and go. I think it would do him a world of good to come home to find you all gone and photos of him in a compromising position on the kitchen table.

Working would help me. Fairly impossible in the current situation. Plus anything that happens with the kids, is all mine to deal with. If there was a job, yes I could find childcare etc but either way all my job. What does make me is when I really am sick and with sick kids to care for, he will not take the day off, or try to work from home, or even come back early. Last time, the first I heard from him all day was an SMS at 6:30 saying... 'he'd be late home'

He's fairly normal I think at weekends. He often cooks breakfast, does play with them, does take them swimming or play sport with them, but mostly wants downtime in front of the TV/Internet, while ignoring them. Sex sadly seems to be tailing off even more but I think had been better than lots of other v indiscreet people i know

I understand the fear of screwing yourself over if you leave but it really is better to end this situation, one way or another, while your children are still young. They're smart, they pick up on these things. Over time they will lose respect for him, they will see how he treats you. Or they may end up following his example and seeing you as the one who does everything but doesn't deserve any respect. It can go both ways, or either. But in my experience seeing one workaholic parent taking the piss and lacking any consideration for the other will never go unnoticed by the children, and can impact on their own relationships later on in life.

You deserve more and better than this.

Your children are young now, but in time they will be teenagers and not be around so much, and eventually they will leave the nest. Will he still be staying out every night 'working' and socialising?

If you think he won't change, it may be best for you to return to the UK now and forge a new life for yourself, rather than wait 10 or 15 years and be faced with trying to move teenagers who don't want to move.

I Should think less and type faster. V v good points since I last posted. Oh God. What a bloody waste of time and energy. Why did I do this to myself?

CartedOff Interesting. The MIL was SAHM. Devoted would be the word I used. As for her children

"seeing you as the one who does everything but doesn't deserve any respect."

that just about sums up their attitude. For sure, FIL had affair/affairs. Not sure their offspring know that tho

Don't blame yourself!
Situations like this can happen to anyone. Just do what's right for you and your DCs, here in the present.

DH thinks being a dad who is around loads doesn't count for much because "my dad was hardly ever there and I still have a really good relationship with him"

(I wouldn't myself call it really good)

Oh no, 4paws... Leaving you ill, with sick children, and not caring or making an effort to help .. he doesn't care, does he. That's worse than thoughtless, that's a big, waving red flag in my book.

Don't berate yourself, please. All you've done is love someone who doesn't love you in return, and we've all done that at some point. It's nothing to kick yourself over.

He's just coming out with excuses tbh to justify himself. He pays for you to stay home, it's not like he's cheating, he had an ok relationship with his dad who was partially absent etc etc....

I'd be more annoyed he was trying to shut me up with rubbish reasons for his behaviour to be honest. You know in your heart of hearts it's not right or you'd never have posted. Really do feel for you though, especially handling this with the DCs

Think of that last time you were ill and he sent you a text to tell you he'd be late.

He made a decision, didn't he? At some point he would have realised he should go home and help. He didn't phone you because he didn't want to feel guilty. (In my experience a selfish man fears being made to feel guilty more than anything else.) So he had to decide - either go home and help, or stay out.

Now it's far more likely that he had a reason to stay out. He'd made a promise or he'd get something out of it. When you think about it, he could have come home and acted like a normal person and dined out on that for years. "What do you mean I do nothing? I came rushing home when you were sick..."

He didn't come home. He didn't want to feel guilty - he knew he was guilty. My bet is that that night he was seeing someone.

I'm sorry - I hate talking to you like this. My ex husband was unfaithful and it broke my heart. I do wish, though, that someone had sat me down and said it clearly so that I had to listen. It's amazing how little you can hear when you choose to.

He doesn't love me does he? Because I know if there was a problem at home I would worry, and I would check however I could to make sure things were ok

Another one who was in this situation. I remember he used to work away all week and fly home at weekends. Once I was really ill with flu and sinusitis and he came home on fri night and then flew back to work citing some work crisis the next day.

I remember sobbing in utter despair - I'd been at home alone with a 3 and 1 yr old all week. My family was hundreds of miles away. It was just awful. It later transpired he'd been with the ow..

He eventually tripped himself up and with some damning evidence of what he'd been up to, i booted him out. Finally. Life is so much easier now.

Don't let your life slip away. I feel so angry now at what I put up with. I really wouldnt wait to confront this if I were you.

It depends what your definition of love is, OP. If it means wanting what's best for your partner, wanting them to be happy, wanting to spend time with them and all those good things, then no, he loves himself more.

He wants what's best for him. He wants to do what he wants. He is annoyed at anyone who stops him having fun. He knows you're unhappy.

It's not the kind of love I'd want.