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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships:16

999 replies

foolonthehill · 27/01/2013 20:40

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
minkembra · 07/02/2013 15:37

Yup i am indeed swinging wildly between things at the mo. he contacted to me today about something was a actually being nice and helpful and it threw ne a bit. But then he could be nice. He just wasn't very good at realising when he was bang out of order.

Was at docs yesterday with poorly child. the has reflux (and a virus Sad). Doc commented that was tall for her age and that reminded me of one of his pet niggles.

He is tall, i am pretty tall and his eldest is v tall. so he was always complaining our too not tall enough (for what?) they are slightly taller then average but that is not enough.he kept making out i wasn't feeding them properly. then the one who used to be smaller(twins btw)
Had a growth spurt and overtook her sister. he kept telling the now smaller one that if the didn't eat more then her sister will be bigger.

Then one day he was saying 'which one of you do you think is my favourite' (no, i have no fecking idea why he used to do that) and the smaller one started sobbing and said 'you don't need to ask it is obviously her because she is taller than me'

i was furious and made no secret of it. pointed out that it need not be diet. my sister ate like a horse ate half my food too and I'm still 3 inches taller. same parents different genes.

He has no clue.

minkembra · 07/02/2013 15:40

Must stop ranting. displacement activity I'm avoiding my homework.

fi i reckon they probably put on different faces too do they may already get it.

BreatheandFlyAway · 07/02/2013 16:36

Mink that's awful re the twins Sad

More later, sorry being scooped up to drive kids.....

Noonelistens · 07/02/2013 16:52

Just checking in before I go home (soooo much easier to MN on work time Wink )

leclerc your DD is so perceptive - that should stand her in good stead as she gets older. My genuine biggest fear is that DD will grow up not able to spot an EA-er

charlotte glad the counselling got you buzzing. I think we get so used to life not being about us that it is good to talk about yourself

nini/silver I too have a TV addict. And I am not allowed to speak during it otherwise the TV just gets louder and louder and louder (Obv am not allowed to touch the remote control)

fi I think we are all such good actresses - noone would guess the inner turmoil and might even think that we are lucky to be in such good marriages.

Something that's bothering me ...

I can't stop feeling sorry for NSDH. He has had the chance to have a lovely devoted wife (me Grin ) and to be part of a happy family unit with a welcoming extended family. We are financially secure and so could be treating ourselves from time to time. We could be having so much fun with DD. And yet he has pushed me away and eventually will be denying himself all these things by being so pigheaded and thinking that his life is sooo bad. I have started documenting his abuse and he has no idea that I'm contemplating leaving and I feel so guily about it. I'm so stupid.

BreatheandFlyAway · 07/02/2013 17:19

listens I feel exactly the same re my fw though I am exasperated with him for all those reasons, not sorry for him anymore. But us partners of fws are normal loving people so naturally our love and pity are provoked by our fws even though they don't deserve it... it's a sign we're decent people - bet your bottom dollar if they were thinking of dumping us they wouldn't spare a flying feck for our feelings though Wink

minkembra · 07/02/2013 17:20

I feel a bit sorry for my ex but not as sorry as he feels for himself.

And he will have a new gf by the end of the month and he can tell her all about what an utter utter cow i am and how awful it all is for him. he is already on POF.i know i should not have looked but i did.

CharlotteCollinsislost · 07/02/2013 20:34

Invited to lunch at someone's house today. Just three of us plus dd3. Nice, open, genuine people. Should be relaxed and fun, right? When I drove away, I thought, "Well, that was nice," and was instantly overcome by jitters: it took quite some time before I felt calm again. Was so worried about whether I'd done what's expected, what I should have said to be polite when leaving, whether I'd been boring when I spoke and so on.

So then I started wondering why and I think I'm used to socialising with people FW chooses, when FW chooses; what's more, he'll dominate all proceedings, from overseeing food preparation and service to choosing what we talk about (changing the subject if it's not interesting enough to him). I just sit in the corner like a shrinking violet. In fact, I try not to talk, as he will often either talk over me or tell me helpfully about some facial mannerism I have when I'm nervous talking in a group. Hmm

I did do little bits of mum and kids entertaining, on my own terms, until about 15 months ago, when we moved house suddenly and I just couldn't be bothered getting to know a whole new set of people. So since then, I've invited dc's friends around now and then, and just socialised with them when invited out. No wonder I was out of my comfort zone in a solely adult environment!

And the two women I lunched with have serious non-abuse issues with their Hs, which they talked briefly but candidly about. And I stayed silent...

And someone has invited herself over for lunch tomorrow. Which is scarier by far! I need to get used to stuff like this and make proper friendships, too, but I just want to avoid it all, really. Life is tiring enough!

CharlotteCollinsislost · 07/02/2013 20:35

(The "telling me about facial mannerism" thing happens after the event, by the way.)

minkembra · 07/02/2013 21:44

charlotte the fact that he feels the need to undermine you suggests you are far more comfortable in social situations than him hence the need to cut you down to size. he probably cannot handle having other people like you in case you find out what normal people are like.
I too get quite paranoid in social situations but then so do most normal people who actually care what other people think.

Just try to enjoy having genuine friends.

It should get easier the more you see them. that said my house is such a tip i am not too keen to have playdates here. need to shampoo the carpets.

minkembra · 07/02/2013 21:47

And read this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/1678824-Not-content-with-walking-around-the-town-with-used-pant-liner-on-my-cardi-in-full-view
And think this kind of serious wardrobe failure has probably happened to them too...Shock

minkembra · 07/02/2013 21:55

charlotte Re. worrying if you'd done what's expected.

as long as you didn't have a pant liner stuck to your cardi when you left you were probably fine.

I have decided in the next month I'm getting the break up hair do. getting my bff to take a half decent picture and dipping my toe in the online dating water. no intention of actually going dating for a bit- chance would be a fine thing and not ready yet- just gonna practise my chat. cos i bet lack of practise has dulled my patter.

Mind you through online thing didn't go so will last time. ex was pick of the bunch Hmm

BreatheandFlyAway · 07/02/2013 22:42

FW has just called me to kindly advise me that dcs may be "blaming" me for "taking them away" and that he is operating a carrot not stick method with them now - he thought I'd like to know so I didn't end up being the "bad" one. Oh hahahaha, fw. For years I have been screamed at for "painting him as an arsehole" when I have been comforting to dcs after his explosions.

And we left the other week because of his mad explosion and he threatened suicide in front of dcs - he now blames me for that because I "shouldn't have answered the phone in the car" - it goes to broadcast automatically. So it's clearly my fault.

And now he's moving round angrily downstairs because I called him on these anomalies. So he then phoned me to say all discussion with me is pointless because I am "a certain type of person with serious issues and a chip on my shoulder". Angry

The trouble is, in a sense he is right - the kids do blame me because you do lash out at the safe one, the one closest to you and because I did take them away - but with completely justifiable reason which of course I can't overplay to them as it would be damaging to slag off their dad.

So it means I can't leave again as they would be freaked out and possibly refuse to go. I will have to divorce him from under same roof which will be incredibly hard. Sad Confused Angry [help]

BreatheandFlyAway · 07/02/2013 22:45

He's such a sneaky, self deluded little bugger. The only bright side is, he has completely inoculated me against ever wanting to be with him again. Thank you for that at least, fw.

Next week: court, lawyer and mediation. Plus I have signed up to FP (starting March) and asked doc for referral for counselling to help me deal with stress and remain assertive.

BreatheandFlyAway · 07/02/2013 22:50

Every nasty scene with him is a step forward I suppose because I am breaking through the barriers of inertia and standing my ground.

Has anyone else who's left had this trouble with worrying whether dcs will go along with it because they're being brainwashed and emotionally entrapped by ea mind games? How can I deal with this? I would love to leave and now I have made one break I know I can do it. But can I, can they?

TisILeclerc · 07/02/2013 23:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BreatheandFlyAway · 07/02/2013 23:39

Thanks leclerc xx so sorry you're feeling rotten lovey. Hope you feel better soon.

BreatheandFlyAway · 07/02/2013 23:41

Did anyone see Grand Designs tonight? My ideal for the commune - that library/living room - ahhhhh and breathe Smile And I loved the woman on it Smile

MaggieOnTheSofa · 08/02/2013 01:46

Hi all..sorry not had chance to read thread will try catch up tomorrow...just need to log some stuff as using this as my journal..

Today FW off work, lots of FWerty ALL day. Groping, nasty comments, overreaction re mouldy bread (even though I'm not allowed to go shopping), swearing in front of DS, comments re my personal appearance, ranting about me taking too long to get back home to him and DS from collecting DD from nursery (10mins later than normal/DS crying for me) resulting in him storming off upstairs in a huff barely saying hello to DD, returning 20mins later as if nothing had happened. Just lying on sofa watching and not helping with DC bedtime routines even though I'm very ill and DS ill too. Swanning off out on piss again with mates (groundhog day), before I even got kids to bed knowing I was struggling, returning home about an hour ago to announce I can't have 'his bed' even though I'm ill and he's not sleeping on sofa so I must get back to my usual bed aka sofa (what's new). Off he goes to bed, banging around, waking DC up so I have to take ages settling them again. I then go into bedroom to make sure lamp is switched off as by this stage he is snoring and there...right before my eyes he had done one last act of FWerty to crown the day....

....He had gone into my cupboard specially, taken out a packet of sanitary towels (which I have to buy on my credit card btw) got out a towel, opened it and stuck it slam bang in the middle of our full length mirror which is the first thing you see when coming into bedroom. WTF??? I have left it there and closed the door tight so DD won't barge in and see it but I shall see what he does with it in the morning. WTF is that all about? Suppose to symbolise? Its not even my time of the month. Is it sexual abuse? God knows he been doing the groping thing all day Sad I fucking HATE him. As soon as this flus gone ill be digging out of this black hole again, whether my fingers bleed or not. Nothing like a full on day of FWerty to bring one back to ones senses.

BreatheandFlyAway · 08/02/2013 07:25

Another of my posts has disappeared! It happens when i post from phone. But I was posting strongly in support of you maggie honey. So sorry to hear how awful he's been. The Sanitary pad on the mirror- WTAF?!! You poor thing. I hope you feel much better very soon and can get out. Xxx

Lahti · 08/02/2013 07:58

maggie I hope you feel better soon. Re the sanitary towel WTF!

FairyFi · 08/02/2013 09:59

Oh oh oh beautiful ladies, and fuck fuck FWs!!!!

They are crazy crazy crazy - everything you both say Maggie and Fly (((You both being soooo amazing and big hugs!)) - mind you, after my craziness this week who am I to talk!

Yes, I would say, he's invaded your intimate privacy maggie(which is sexual, he is trying to sexually humiliate I would think), but I seriously wouldn't worry about the DC seeing it, you have enough to worry about, just tell them every woman in the world has them or similar, its no biggey, and well done for leaving it there. Or you could feign distress, as it being he 'worst' thing he could ever do to you, and maybe he'll just focus on throwing sanitary towels around the place, rather than throttling or groping you!! I guess, some hope? that would be too easy! I am sorry you're ill. don't worry about what it symbolises (the ST that is). Sleep with your poorly dc in the bed all day and get well soon, or in their beds, but that sofa lark is just awful, are you keeping warm enough. Hot water bottles and stuff so that you are hot to sweat it all out (gross I know, but it works, hot baths).

Try glad he's making himself look so ridiculous to you as to put an end to any feelings still straggling around.

FWIW I would take the DC and go, because of the harm it is causing you all to stay, and tell him that. Say that contact will be resumed once some normality has [... you all being back in the house when h'es gone] in the meantime the dc are suffering and need space and time to recover from the awful environment that they continually surrounded by. I think you are doing a brilliant job coping with them in the face of all this, and standing by and showing them the love and kindnesses and support that they need, but there is, I think, only so much they can take, and you! You are doing everything you can to get this all sorted, as well as being very strong against him. It won't be so long till he's out so tell him normal contact will be resumed then? I know the kids won't want to leave their house, but you can reframe it as a nice long holiday, and when the holiday is over you will just come home and have the whole house to play in. Then say he's away working - could that work, that he could be working away, or on his ownn holiday, just so they don't sense any kind of 'leaving' from him or them? All you are doing is removing them from a dangerous unstable environment and you have good cause because he has threatened to kill himself in front of them; terifying Sad

Is there anything workable in there for you? DC hve no sense of time atall (age dependent), and if there needs to be a visit because they are desperate to see him, then do a supervised (with family member), in the park or public place, taking them to dinner or summat? Or a weekend in the middle to break up the long time? The sooner that you are back in the house the sooner normal contact can be resumed.

I am just throwing suggestions into the air, ways of looking at things from some different angles to see if anything might occur to get you out of this mire right now. Possibly none, or a bit of some, or your own different plan. It just sounds awful, I feel so sad that you have done all of this and now find yourself stuck in this way! grrrrr, for you.

How long is it now before you take full possession? xxxx

take care ladies XXX

I managed nearly all 8 hours sleep last night, so feeling quite invigorated, especially as I switched energy supplier! and energy saving tip - turn off EVERYTHING at night (all that power sucking standyby stuff - should save £100 pa apparently - just sharing for any thatothers in financial crisies!)

Get well soon Maggie
Keep breathing and flying! Fly

lots of love all xxx

MaggieOnTheSofa · 08/02/2013 10:46

Thank you ladies...glad not just me with a WTF moment on the towel! Its still there on the mirror, weirdo FW.

Hugs Breathe, Lahti and Fi great support as always thank you xx thinking of you all

TisILeclerc · 08/02/2013 11:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

minkembra · 08/02/2013 12:40

Maggie that speaks volumes about a weird attitude to women.

Think it is beyond working out though.

And am coming to conclusion it is not worth any of us trying to work out wtf half the stuff our assorted dysfunctional others are up to.realised i spent/wasted half my counselling session on that when what i meant to talk about was recovery and moving on.

So yes you are right in thinking what tf but i don't think we'll any of us understand why tf. He is clearly not rational!!

ponygirlcurtis · 08/02/2013 13:09

Fi, hurrah for sleep (and saving money)! Grin It does make such a difference, not being completely drained.

Maggie - I agree, I think it's an attempt at (sexually related) humiliation, retaliation for you not giving in to his oh-so-romantic (not) advances. Either it's a reference to you being on your period, which you must be if you're not wanting sex. Or he thinks a ST is a humiliating thing (which he might do, given his caveman/small boy attitude towards women), and is trying to embarrass you, and show his power. Or maybe it's something else! But definitely a nasty thing to do. He's not right.

Breathe - been thinking about your situation all morning. Could you contact WA for a refuge, and sit down and explain to the kids together (or individually) that you know how upset they are, but they don't understand all that's been going on, that Dad has been behaving really badly towards you and you are scared of him - or whatever is appropriate for the ages. You don't have to slag him off, just give them some of the truth. Explain that you cannot stay in the house with him, you have to leave (and therefore so so they), but everything will be fine. Do you think that would help them feel better about moving out somewhere? I hate to think of you still being around him, and the kids too. I know how hard it is to think about uprooting again (I think that's why they say leaving a second time is even harder than the first). But you are going to be subjected to constant mental torture (and possible physical intimidation) with him there, and with him around the kids much more he has more opportunities to poison their minds too.

Leclerc, hope you've got some anti-bs and will feel better soon.

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